Feel safe flying?

[darthandy]

I've always had a lot of admiration for airline pilots and their abilities. Yes, I know, you occasionally hear some horror story about a wacko doing something insane or stupid, but those events are rare. Here is a link to a story about the average airline pilot's training and a video shot at a German airport during a day with severe cross winds. Absolutely amazing!!

 

http://travel.sympatico.ca/TravelNews/Articles/how_safe_is_a_plane

 

Andy

[Flyinfool]

Those are always fun to watch.

 

Cross wind landings are taught from the very beginning of flying lessons.

I had to have them mastered before I was allowed to do my first solo. While they look very hard to do, they are really pretty easy.

 

In the "facts" section of the article it says

My opinions are in red

Need a little more to boost your confidence? Here are some facts:

• Airplanes can fly safely to their destination if one engine fails true, but they never will if there is any possibility of aborting to the nearest capable airport

• A jet engine can remain functional even if an entire chicken (let alone a small bird) gets thrown into it Tell that to the plane that ended up in the Hudson.

• Most airlines overhaul their planes every 4 to 5 years, keeping everything new and functional. Actually more often than that

• Every commercial airplane system is built with a primary, auxiliary, back-up, and emergency system (four systems) For some but not all systems

• Most airplane pilots have the training and technology to land in 0/0 visibility Not most, but most of the newer ones have the technology but they are still not supposed to.

• If lightning strikes an aircraft it simply passes around it, causing no damage It often burns a small hole in the skin with no other damage

• Aircrafts can withstand very strong air turbulence Provided they are being flown at or below Maneuvering speed.

• Commercial aircrafts are designed with the ability to fly right through thunderstorms, even though they don’t actually do this (Check out Hurricane Hunters, a U.S. department of defense organization who actually fly through hurricanes) FALSE the planes that fly into hurricanes are specially equipped and reinforced. A thunder storm can tear a plane apart

• Pilots are locked into the cockpit and can’t open the door for anyone FALSE, pilots often leave the cockpit to use the rest room, let in a stewardess to deliver coffee or other things that the flight crew may need. or check any issue that may occur while in flight

 

Gotta love the creativity of reporters.

[BuddyRich]

We were landing in Reno once. The crosswinds there can reach 80 or better. First attempt the pilot had to abort. Second attempt was hairy but the cabin broke out in applause after he got it on the ground. I was gonna ask if we could do it again but thought better of it after a while.

[hig4s]

Seeing as all big commercial airports have runways in all different directions, why did they have to land in a crosswind?

[muaymendez1]

Seeing as all big commercial airports have runways in all different directions, why did they have to land in a crosswind?

Not all commercial airports have multiple runways. Commercial doesnt always mean larger. It just means that it is used to commercial purposed and not just general aviation.

There are commercial airports that do not have the runway width or length for anything larger than a cessna citation( learjet type )

Flying a citation( learjet ) twin engine jet is easier to control if one engine failed than a 727. Think rear end as in a vehicle. The inside turning wheel rolls slower than the outside. therefore a 727 with one engine will need to use opposite controls to fight the forces making it turn into the down engine.

So now you have to use more power /thrust to keep flying but deflection of control surfaces to keep flying straight.

If your winds are high and you need full throttle you may have more throttle than delfection of control surface allows for straight flight. bad situation so VERY false. An airplane needs all of its engines for flight.

One step further is if the above happens with a propeller engine. now you have tourque forces also adding to the mix.

[Rick Haywood]

What I find odd odd in the videos is how fast these panes slow done to taxi speed. It is itas if they are not moving very fast..............ODD isn't

[jlh3rd]

hig4s

 

you can have multiple runways but crosswinds can still exist..wind can blow from any direction and speed.........all aircraft have a manual that lists limitations for that aircraft....every aircraft has crosswind limits that are to be followed....so, as bad as a crosswind may seem to the non pilot.....as long as the flight crew is adhereing to the manual, there is no worry...

[SilvrT]

Awesome video, especially the zoom lense as those places are a long way out before touch down.

[Sailor]

Want to see some real hairy flying check out videos for Hong Kong airport.

[djh3]

I personaly have quite a few hours in a C-141 cargo aircraft. I have flown in some lets call it less than admerable conditions. Luckly for me my flight crew were all instructors on the aircraft. Seriously the guys I take my hat off to as an aicraft guy are the Navy pilots landing on a table top that pitching and rolling and winds start, stop cross wind yopu name it. lol Not being a Navy guy they still get my respect.

[Freebird]

I've flown into Hong Kong many times. The old airport was a bit hairy but the new one isn't bad at all. I tell you, one of my least favorites is San Diego. Steep descent due to the high rise buildings on the approach. Once you touch down, they are heavy on the back thrusters and brakes. I was sitting by a retired commercial pilot one trip and he told me that the pilot's association consider San Diego the worse airport in the United States to fly into. He said that there is really no safe way to land there.

[darthandy]

I've flown into Hong Kong many times. The old airport was a bit hairy but the new one isn't bad at all. I tell you, one of my least favorites is San Diego. Steep descent due to the high rise buildings on the approach. Once you touch down, they are heavy on the back thrusters and brakes. I was sitting by a retired commercial pilot one trip and he told me that the pilot's association consider San Diego the worse airport in the United States to fly into. He said that there is really no safe way to land there.

 

Actually, it sounds more like a controlled crash with no damage! Remind me to land elsewhere and drive to San Diego!

 

Andy

[Monty]

Not all commercial airports have multiple runways. Commercial doesnt always mean larger. It just means that it is used to commercial purposed and not just general aviation.

There are commercial airports that do not have the runway width or length for anything larger than a cessna citation( learjet type )

Flying a citation( learjet ) twin engine jet is easier to control if one engine failed than a 727. Think rear end as in a vehicle. The inside turning wheel rolls slower than the outside. therefore a 727 with one engine will need to use opposite controls to fight the forces making it turn into the down engine.

So now you have to use more power /thrust to keep flying but deflection of control surfaces to keep flying straight.

If your winds are high and you need full throttle you may have more throttle than delfection of control surface allows for straight flight. bad situation so VERY false. An airplane needs all of its engines for flight.

One step further is if the above happens with a propeller engine. now you have tourque forces also adding to the mix.

 

Also, better to feather the prop in the dead engine, if at all possible.

[KIC]

I went through ground school and got a few hours in a Cessna 150 with my son. One day I was waiting for my son to finish his flying lesson and there was a pretty hairy crosswind. I watched a lot of the small planes land with the left wing angled at what looked like a 45 degree angle towards the runway. Plane after plane landed. Then I saw my son's plane coming in at the same angle. It was a great landing but I held my breath until it was solid on the ground. As my son filled out his flight log, I pulled the instructor aside and asked how freaked out my son was when the instructor landed that way. He looked at me and said .."' I didn't land that plane". My son said the landing didn't scare him any where close to how freaked he was doing the stalls that day.

[Flyinfool]

The way my instructor explained it is that the wing low crosswind landing technique is the prefered method, BUT you do feel a side force that makes many passengers feel uneasy and that is why the airlines use the crab right to the ground technique. Mainly because it is easier on the passengers. Also some airplanes with low wings do not have room for the extreme bank angle during landing. My instructor made me learn both tecniques and even to use combinations of both tecniques so that I would be prepared for anything.

[jlh3rd]

the best procedure is to fly level , crabbing into the wind to keep the aircraft lined up with the center line of the runway.....when you begin to flare, you lower your upwind wing into the wind, and use your rudder to now bring your nose onto the center line of the runway varying the dip of your wing to stop the plane from drifting off center...you will touch with the upwind gear first, then lower the downwind gear onto the runway, finishing with the nose....this is not uncomfortable for the passengers because the aircraft is flying level until right before touchdown....if you fly the approach with the wing down into the wind, using opposite rudder to keep the nose straight, the passengers will feel as if they are being pushed sideways in the cabin.......you don't touchdown in a crab position because of the side load generated on the gear and it makes for a rough touchdown for the passengers as the aircraft will now kick itself straight....

 

i should add that using differential engine thrust will also aid in touching down straight without having to dip your wing as much....

Edited January 24, 2012 by jlh3rd

[RedRider]

The best procedure is to ride to the destination. I fly as little as possible anymore. That is what vacation days are for (to ride instead of fly). Fortunately, almost all my sales meetings are in the summer and fall.

 

If needing to go overseas, this won't work as well though.

 

RR

[jlh3rd]

you are absolutely correct.....

[Guest Swifty]

The way my instructor explained it is that the wing low crosswind landing technique is the prefered method, BUT you do feel a side force that makes many passengers feel uneasy and that is why the airlines use the crab right to the ground technique. Mainly because it is easier on the passengers. Also some airplanes with low wings do not have room for the extreme bank angle during landing. My instructor made me learn both tecniques and even to use combinations of both tecniques so that I would be prepared for anything.

 

the best procedure is to fly level , crabbing into the wind to keep the aircraft lined up with the center line of the runway.....when you begin to flare, you lower your upwind wing into the wind, and use your rudder to now bring your nose onto the center line of the runway varying the dip of your wing to stop the plane from drifting off center...you will touch with the upwind gear first, then lower the downwind gear onto the runway, finishing with the nose....this is not uncomfortable for the passengers because the aircraft is flying level until right before touchdown....if you fly the approach with the wing down into the wind, using opposite rudder to keep the nose straight, the passengers will feel as if they are being pushed sideways in the cabin.......you don't touchdown in a crab position because of the side load generated on the gear and it makes for a rough touchdown for the passengers as the aircraft will now kick itself straight....

 

i should add that using differential engine thrust will also aid in touching down straight without having to dip your wing as much....

I always envied the airline drivers when I was learning to do cross winds because they get to crab all the way down final and then just straighten it out in the end...easy sneezy. We little guys had to cross the controls and ride the wing low on short final, and on windier days even land on the ONE main and keep flying it down the runway until you were slow enough to plant all three without ground looping. "Heavies" never have to do the wing low routine because they really don't have to worry about ground looping; once they plant they are heavy enough to stay there, they can use steering to stay on the runway.

[jlh3rd]

i land a cessna 172 in a crosswind the same way i land my airliner...it's not that an airplane is heavier, we have spoilers that kill the lift upon touchdown, so we get the mains on sooner, but it still is the same technique.....also, a 20 knot wind affects a 3000 lb airplane more than a 34,000 lb airplane , so your "flying" the smaller plane longer until it stops flying....but you never let your attention wander when landing no matter how big your airplane is...

Edited January 25, 2012 by jlh3rd