Slave Cyl Remove & Replace Question

[cabreco]

I haven't been able to find a write up on here on the r/r of the slave cylinder.

I will document my job with pix & post it here for others that follow.

Looking at the service manual, I have been able to surmise the following must be done.

But I have some preliminary questions I will post in red:

 

1. Remove bolts on the left footrest-shifter.

2. Remove the 6 allen bolts on the middle-gear cover..

Do I have to drain the oil?

3. Remove the bolt that attaches the clutch line to the slave

What size are they?

4 Remove the two allen bolts holding the cylinder to the engine.

What size are they?

Can I use Allen Wrenchs or will I need to buy metric hex sockets?

Also is there a preferred bleeding technique or is it a pain like bleeding my Honda's front caliper? (not enough pressure)

Basically That is all the questions I have to prepare for this. I looks simple enough.

Andy

[dingy]

I haven't been able to find a write up on here on the r/r of the slave cylinder.

I will document my job with pix & post it here for others that follow.

Looking at the service manual, I have been able to surmise the following must be done.

But I have some preliminary questions I will post in red:

 

1. Remove bolts on the left footrest-shifter.

 

2. Remove the 6 allen bolts on the middle-gear cover..

Do I have to drain the oil?

3. Remove the bolt that attaches the clutch line to the slave

What size are they?

4 Remove the two allen bolts holding the cylinder to the engine.

What size are they?

Can I use Allen Wrenchs or will I need to buy metric hex sockets?

 

Also is there a preferred bleeding technique or is it a pain like bleeding my Honda's front caliper? (not enough pressure)

 

Basically That is all the questions I have to prepare for this. I looks simple enough.

 

Andy

 

#3 - I am fairly sure it is a 12mm

 

10, 12, 14 , 17 , 19 are for the most part the sizes you will find on the bike.

 

Don't have to drain oil, there is a seal the clutch push rod goes through into the case.

 

#4, You can use Allen Wrenches as long as they are metric. This particular screw is pretty deep in a hard to get at spot, so a socket drive allen on a short extension is a good choice. I have a set of 'T' handle metric wrenches I use a lot. Harbor freight has them.

 

When you get slave off, pay close attention to the condition of the bore where the seals ride. I have seen a couple of these that have been past repairing. It is not uncommon for the clutch fluid to be neglected. Water goes to the lowest point and degrades this area.

 

A set of speed bleeders is very helpful. You need 4 of them including the brakes.

 

Some pictures attached that may help you get an idea what you will be looking at.

 

Gary

[cabreco]

Thanks Gary.

Got a trip to Harbor Freight scheduled tomorrow.

I've got my list of profanities ready to yell! http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/userpics/10172/swear2.gif

 

Andy

[Yammer Dan]

It is tricky to get out of that hole once it is unbolted. You just have to keep playing with it.

[Venturous Randy]

It is tricky to get out of that hole once it is unbolted. You just have to keep playing with it.

 

This is true. But sometimes it comes out so easy that it will almost fall out. There is a bit of a trick in the sequence of how it comes out easy, but I don't remember it. Also, the bolts may be real tight to break loose, so make sure you have a good Allen head tool.

RandyA

[Keemez]

Seems to me like those 2 bolts holding the slave cyl in were 5mm? I'm not positive though. Might have been 6s.... could have been 4s for that matter. Pretty sure they're 5s though.

[bongobobny]

There is one screw on the side cover that is "Special" as it does go all the way thru and some oil will seep out. It is the one on the bottom and there is a copper washer on it. Make that the last screw you take out and just reinstall it into the threads once the cover is off. It does not need to go in all the way, just enough to stop the seeping.

 

Yes, there is a trick to getting the slave out but once you twist and turn it long enough it will literally fall out! I think the first time I did one it took a good half hour to figure out the right combination, and I pretty much exhausted my list of "Special" words! There was a thread about this several years ago, and another one about how buying the whole new assembly was not much more expensive than rebuilding the old one. You might want to check into this.

 

While it's apart you may want to consider installing SS lines as well as it definately stiffens up the feel of the clutch...

[Condor]

The problem with the slave removal is the tab for the lower hex screw sits on the back side of the shift arm and does not let the slave come straight out. A lot of members get it to come out by playing around with it and when it finally falls out haven't got a clue as to how they did it... Here's the 'trick'. Once the slave is loose drop the bleeder arm down and rotate the slave while moving it out. This allows the top tab to rotate over the shift arm. When installing it, put it in upside down and rotate the other direction. This will get the bottom tab over the shift arm. I hope this makes sense to folks??

[bongobobny]

I remember you also have to temporarily relocate the wiring that gets in the way...

[cabreco]

I remember you also have to temporarily relocate the wiring that gets in the way...

 

As in move out of the way or disconnect & remove?

[Yammer Dan]

I remember you also have to temporarily relocate the wiring that gets in the way...

 

And be very carefull not to pinch that wiring when you put it back togather. Don't remember exactly but goes to neutral light?? Or maybe gear indicator.

[cabreco]

So I went to Harbor Freight to buy the tools (ok I over did it). Picked up all 3 sets for $32.

 

http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/small_image/160x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_14192.jpghttp://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/small_image/160x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_19635.jpghttp://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/small_image/160x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_14199.jpg

 

Now I'm all set for the "fun" tomorrow.

 

On a better note I did dump a few ounces of Seafoam in the tank the other day & today a took her out for a run to see if I can clear the gas smell. It did help a bit. I figure a few tanks & she'll clear up. The smell is less noticeable.

Funny though the looks I was getting driving her stripped of all her plastic bodywork!

She's ugly nekked!

http://luvinpokerplayers.com/forum/images/smilies/smiley_running_naked.gif

[Yammer Dan]

Warden tries to keep me out of there. Can't understand it??

[cabreco]

While it's apart you may want to consider installing SS lines as well as it definitely stiffens up the feel of the clutch...

 

I've done a search on line but so far the 1st Gen stainless lines elude me.

Any good sources for parts (good=inexpensive) so, I'm really looking for "Gooder":mo money:

 

Actually, I'm looking for a parts supplies for all parts. My local Yamaha dealer has ambitions of being a proctologist.

 

Andy

[dingy]

I've done a search on line but so far the 1st Gen stainless lines elude me.

Any good sources for parts (good=inexpensive) so, I'm really looking for "Gooder":mo money:

 

Actually, I'm looking for a parts supplies for all parts. My local Yamaha dealer has ambitions of being a proctologist.

 

Andy

 

Try Skydoc_17, member here.

 

I found my set on ebay, along with the rear brake line, but it was a one time item, I think.

 

Sellers I.D. was 'garyhl2004'

 

Gary

[BradT]

Seems to me like those 2 bolts holding the slave cyl in were 5mm? .

 

Yup I think there 5 mm. My short socket allen key, did not fit properly, so used the T handle ones. They are very tight, I assume from the heat.

 

But sometimes it comes out so easy that it will almost fall out. There is a bit of a trick in the sequence of how it comes out easy, but I don't remember it. .

RandyA

 

Don't remember because it just falls out and just goes back in, can take a while and get very frustrating.

 

Have fun and good luck. There was a few posts on this but they go a long way back. Maybe before the crash

 

Brad

[bongobobny]

If you wanted to convert ALL your lines (brakes and clutch) one of our suppliers, Buckeye Performance, supplies a complete set, but be prepared to open your wallet because it gets expensive, even with our Venturerider discount. I'm not sure how much Rick is getting for them now, or if he still carries them, but it will set you back around $400 but it includes every line you need plus new crush washers to boot and it is custom designed for whatever series Venture you have. Earl, Skydoc17 is also a great resource but I'm not sure he has any complete kits made up.

 

As far as bleeding, what Gary (Dingy) was referring to are "speed bleeders" which work great! They are bleeders that have one way valves in them so fluid goes out but air does not go back in when you release the clutch lever. They are relatively inexpensive just make sure you get the right ones with the right size metric thread. Another "must have" device is a vacuum pump. Most auto supply stores carry them and it should set you back around $30. Using a vacuum pump you squeeze the pump handle at the bleeder, not the clutch (or brake) handle. Buy it once, use it for life!

[Condor]

If you wanted to convert ALL your lines (brakes and clutch) one of our suppliers, Buckeye Performance, supplies a complete set, but be prepared to open your wallet because it gets expensive, even with our Venturerider discount. I'm not sure how much Rick is getting for them now, or if he still carries them, but it will set you back around $400 but it includes every line you need plus new crush washers to boot and it is custom designed for whatever series Venture you have. Earl, Skydoc17 is also a great resource but I'm not sure he has any complete kits made up.

 

As far as bleeding, what Gary (Dingy) was referring to are "speed bleeders" which work great! They are bleeders that have one way valves in them so fluid goes out but air does not go back in when you release the clutch lever. They are relatively inexpensive just make sure you get the right ones with the right size metric thread. Another "must have" device is a vacuum pump. Most auto supply stores carry them and it should set you back around $30. Using a vacuum pump you squeeze the pump handle at the bleeder, not the clutch (or brake) handle. Buy it once, use it for life!

 

I don't think changing the clutch line to stainless will have any benifit since the pressures in the lines are not like those we develope in the braking system. It takes a lot of pressure to get the line swell... IMHO

[dingy]

I don't think changing the clutch line to stainless will have any benifit since the pressures in the lines are not like those we develope in the braking system. It takes a lot of pressure to get the line swell... IMHO

 

I have more lever pressure on my clutch than I do on the front brakes. I'm not sure if the pivot points on the lever are the same from right to left though.

 

I am running two diaphragm springs in clutch though.

 

And the clutch line pressure is held at the maximum level for a longer period than the brakes, thus causing more stress induced in the hydraulic hose. The brakes are rarely applied to full pressure unless in a 'panic' type stop. When setting at light for instance, I would think most only apply enough lever pressure to hold the bike at stop. The clutch, on the other hand,, is either full on or full off most of its life.

 

 

Gary

[Condor]

I have more lever pressure on my clutch than I do on the front brakes. I'm not sure if the pivot points on the lever are the same from right to left though.

 

I am running two diaphragm springs in clutch though.

 

And the clutch line pressure is held at the maximum level for a longer period than the brakes, thus causing more stress induced in the hydraulic hose. The brakes are rarely applied to full pressure unless in a 'panic' type stop. When setting at light for instance, I would think most only apply enough lever pressure to hold the bike at stop. The clutch, on the other hand,, is either full on or full off most of its life.

 

 

Gary

 

Since the clutch doesn't have a resistence point like a brake, and can be compressed all the way to the grip without increasing line pressure, there's no way the clutch will produce more hydralic line pressure than a brake.

I stand by my first post....

[cabreco]

There is one screw on the side cover that is "Special" as it does go all the way thru and some oil will seep out. It is the one on the bottom and there is a copper washer on it. Make that the last screw you take out and just reinstall it into the threads once the cover is off. It does not need to go in all the way, just enough to stop the seeping.

 

...

 

 

I didn't notice when I removed this allen bolt, does the copper washer go over or under the mid engine cover?

 

The reason I ask is, I now have a small oil leak which wasn't there before. Looking at the cover I see the washer marks on the outside of the mid engine cover. So I put the washer between the bolt & the cover. That being said, I thing the leak is probably that I need to replace the mid engine cover gasket (it kind of ripped).

 

ANYWAY...

 

The Slave cylinder was not as bad as I expected. No cursing at all (& I'm from NYC). It took me a total of 90 minutes including cleanup & rebuilding the original slave.

I did get a used one to put in but decided since I had a rebuild kit to try my hand at rebuilding the original as well.

No more leaking brake fluid!

Bleeding was not really bad. I basically filled the reservoir and opened the bleeder & let gravity do it's thing. Once only fluid was coming out of the bleeder I closed it pumped the clutch handle & cracked the bleeder to let out air. Did that a few times & bleeding done! Didn't have to use the vacuum bleeder. Clutch nice & tight!

 

As far as being a supporting member of this site, I can definitely attest that it's the BEST $12 I am spending! I've just sent my subscription to Don via PayPal!

 

Thank you all AGAIN for your help.

Edited January 9, 2012 by cabreco

[dingy]

Copper washer goes on bottom hole between screw head & middle drive cover.

Gary

[cabreco]

Copper washer goes on bottom hole between screw head & middle drive cover.

 

Gary

 

That's what I thought, did it right. Guess I need a new mid engine cover gasket to stop the drip.

[cabreco]

If anyone can confirm this. The gasket for this cover is part # 3JP-15461-01-00 right?

[Keemez]

If anyone can confirm this. The gasket for this cover is part # 3JP-15461-01-00 right?

 

That one is the stator cover gasket. EDIT: there seems to be some conflicting information that I'm getting off the parts breakdown. Regardless, if you go in through the normal series of choices you'll wind up at the following: the middle gear cover gasket is: 26H-15461-00-00

part #20: http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Yamaha/Motorcycle/1984/XVZ12DL/CRANKCASE%20COVER/parts.html

Edited January 9, 2012 by Keemez