Strong Gas Smell

[cabreco]

Ok I'm going to tangent this problem which came up in my other thread http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showpost.php?p=645718&postcount=23

 

The gas smell went away after 24 hours. I did not restart the bike. I reopened the petcock and the smell resurfaced within 20 min. Nothing is weeping or leaking, yet there the smell of gas is strongest right at the petcock.

 

Anybody encounter this before? I want to avoid pulling the tank if possble, but if the lines need replacing so be it.

[greg_in_london]

Silly question maybe, but what do you mean by 'at the petcock'?

 

The latch that you grip and turn is at the end of a rod 3-4" long which connects to the tap itself which is further underneath the tank. You will need to use a torch and get on your hands and knees to see if there is any leakage from the tap itself - the bit you touch will stay dry.

[CaptainJoe]

Quite possibly the petcock or line is leaking spray it with foot powder. Its almost impossible to see wet gas even with a strong light.

 

 

 

if it's

coming out your overlflows(puddle on floor) you've either have a stuck float or dirt in between the float needle valve and seat

 

or

if it's comming out of carbs or lines(puddles on transmission)" try spray on foot powder and a trouble light with a 100 watt bulb? spray around carb bases and lines.

 

or

if it's going into your tranny... Make sure you check your engine oil sight glass and open filler cap and check. this would indicate a stuck float or dirt in between the floats needle valve and seat and clogged or pinched overflow line.

[cabreco]

Silly question maybe, but what do you mean by 'at the petcock'?

 

Greg

This is what I assume is the petcock

Edited December 29, 2011 by cabreco

[cabreco]

Quite possibly the petcock or line is leaking spray it with foot powder. Its almost impossible to see wet gas even with a strong light.

I think this may be the issue!

 

if it's

coming out your overlflows(puddle on floor) you've either have a stuck float or dirt in between the float needle valve and seat

Nothing, the only puddle is coming from my slave cyl which I just bought the rebuild kit for.

or

if it's coming out of carbs or lines(puddles on transmission)" try spray on foot powder and a trouble light with a 100 watt bulb? spray around carb bases and lines.

or Nothing wet on the engine or floor

if it's going into your tranny... Make sure you check your engine oil sight glass and open filler cap and check. this would indicate a stuck float or dirt in between the floats needle valve and seat and clogged or pinched overflow line.

The PO had the carbs rebuilt & synced just prior to the sale. ASSUMING it was done correctly I should be able to rule them out.

 

I think you may have hit the nail on the head with you 1st suggestion since all I did was open the petcock from closed to on without starting the bike

 

Andy

[dingy]

Attached below are a few pictures of a 1st gen petcock. Greg said it had a 3-4" long bar. It's more like an inch long.

 

And, Greg, being from England, said to get your torch out and look for leak. In the states, we call what he meant a flashlight. Torch is bad around gas.

 

Gary

[friesman]

 

And, Greg, being from England, said to get your torch out and look for leak. In the states, we call what he meant a flashlight. Torch is bad around gas.

 

Gary

 

Torch may be bad around gas,......but it still would be the quickest way to find a gas leak! :rotfl:

 

(JUST KIDDING!!!! DONT USE A TORCH!!!!!)

[skydoc_17]

Hey Andy,

If you move to the left side of your VR and remove the passenger foot rest, this will allow you to remove the fuel pump bracket and filter bracket and you can follow the fuel line to the Petcock. I have attached a few pics so you can see the area you are working in. The first pic is with the foot rest removed, exposing the fuel pump and filter. You can see the bolt holding the fuel pump in place. By the way, if the filter is discolored, then I would replace it while you are in there. Also, If ANYONE claimed they did major rebuild work on the Carbs. and DIDN"T replace the fuel filter, I would be suspect of the quality of their workmanship! The next pic shows the pump and filter removed. The line with the filter is the one that goes to the petcock. Follow that line as far as you can reach. Use your hand to feel for moisture. If it is dry, follow the line from the pump. You will only be able to follow it to the top of the rear cylinder head. I have seen more than once, when the Carbs. are removed, the hose clamp on the line from the pump to the Carb. Rack has been left untightened. If this is the case, you will be pulling the air box and possibly the battery box to get a clear shot at that clamp.

Here are a few things that you should know about the First Gen. VR. Leave the petcock switch on reserve ALL THE TIME! Use the gas gage, just like your car/truck. If you ring the petcock shaft off, you will be removing the entire rear of your VR, including the Sub-Frame to remove the gas tank. Don't ever ASSUME anything about a 20+ year old motorcycle! If you didn't do the repair yourself, or have a receipt from a reputable repair shop in your hand, (even then, check their work!) Then consider it a "fishin' story". It would be bad enough to get stuck out on the road, broke down, because you believed a "fish story" about something that was supposed to be done, but even worse than that, you could be counting on tires, or brakes, or a headlight that is supposed to be new/rebuilt, that is not! My hope is, that you purchased this VR to enjoy the power and comfort that this motorcycle provides, and to be part of the care and up keeping of this 800 pound, 100 HP vehicle that rolls on only two wheels. This ain't no LEXUS, the parts on this bike are as old as your children. (and you know how much gray hair they have caused you) You did good picking up on the gas smell, now you need to find what is causing it, and learn about your bike in the process. If the fuel lines are dry, check the vent tube coming from the top front of the gas tank, (remove the seat to examine this location) If the vent is connected properly, Then I would be draining the Carb. Float Bowls looking for debris, (Ignition switch off for this service) I would also check the drain lines to make sure they are all connected to each Carb. Lastly, take two fingers and put them behind the petcock plate, one on each side of the petcock shaft and move them as far as you can inboard, feeling for moisture. Try a few of the procedures above and report back, we can give you another list of things to check.

Welcome to the forum Andy, and good luck finding your gas leak.

Earl

[cabreco]

Attached below are a few pictures of a 1st gen petcock. Greg said it had a 3-4" long bar. It's more like an inch long.

 

And, Greg, being from England, said to get your torch out and look for leak. In the states, we call what he meant a flashlight. Torch is bad around gas.

 

Gary

 

Gary,

Fortunately, I've been across the pond and learned many different terms for items in our language (a cigarette being the most confusing), so I knew what Greg was coming from but yeah....torch in the USA, by a gasoline tank....Bad!

[cabreco]

Earl,

Thanx for the pix & heads up. I love this bike. It's has all the power we need for cruising around. I actually bought it for my wife & I to ride together. I've always been a shade tree grease monkey. Restoring 60 & 70's cars mostly, although I did build my 72 CB500 into a chopper when I was 18 (so many years ago). My other bike is an 81 Honda CB750 which I brought back to life with only 23K miles on her.

I get neurotic about details & sometimes go overboard with repairs

This one seems easy enough since I am skinning her to do ABS repairs, I might as well inspect & replace as I go along if needed. (years ago I would have just replaced all the fuel, vacuum & vent lines w/o blinking). Anyhow since I am fairly certain the 14K mileage is accurate, one thing I am concentrating on is worn or deteriorated component parts.

Tires are new (according to the coding on the sidewall) I ran a micrometer on the rotors & they were within specs, and the pads were good. Eventually I will replace the brake lines to stainless.

Anyway, I've rambled on enough. Thanks again for all the insight, you guy are great!

Andy

[skydoc_17]

Hey Andy,

I was born and raised in Norfolk, went to Maury High! My dad was a Marine, stationed at Norfolk. I miss that area. I had a few Honda's myself. The Hampton Roads area is a great area to ride in. If that gas line that goes to the Carb. Rack is the braided, red fuel line, if you get that deep into her, replace that line! It causes all sorts of troubles when it starts to deteriorate. (rubber chunks in the float bowls, collapses, etc)

You keep askin', we'll keep helpin'.

Happy New Year,

Earl

[muffinman]

Andy come on down sunday to the annual meet and eat and we can check it out there

 

 

Jeff

[cabreco]

Andy come on down sunday to the annual meet and eat and we can check it out there

 

Jeff

 

I'd love toJeff but I'm up in NYC this weekend for New Years...Oh & the bike is apart now.

 

BTW I checked out the lines & forund no weeps. I did move the bike yesterday without starting it and the smell started up again out of the airbox.

 

It's starting to look like a stuck float! Hopefully seafoam will fix it when I put her back together.

[jasonm.]

If the smell is there w/o the key on...then the issue is the petcock. If the smell is there ONLY when the key is on...I think the previous owner's carb rebuild did NOT include new "bowl o-ring gaskets" or the floats are too high and sometimes spitting out fuel @the overflow . On my 1st rebuild-After 20+ years I got away with not replacing bowl o-rings. But when setting the floats properly---a leak will show up. But the carbs must be observed on the "bench" connected to a fuel supply. I did finally replace bowl orings. THEY were not too expensive. It's not a fun thing. If you are going the take carbs out...they must be seperated into 2 banks...left and right. Then the leak can be found. If you wish to set the floats...a small 3 or 4" level makes this simpler. put the bank in a vise w/wood protecting blocks. Because the bowl has to be removed for each adjustment...Expect to take at least 30 minutes per float to set . Also get new float needles. YAMAHA needles are expensive because they come with the seats...which no one change. They are pressed in. K&L sells needles #18-8944...retailers sell them online too. There is also Sirius Carb in Canada. They have a kit with bowl gaskets and K&L needles. for a reasonable price. NOTE: K&L needle have different "retaining wire" that hold them in place on the float. I used a dental tool to properly put the needles in place. A jeweler's screwdriver will work. Patience

Edited January 1, 2012 by jasonm.

[Phoneman1981]

Hello Everyone: This was an interesting read!!!! I learned a lot from everyone.

[cabreco]

Well the bike has been sitting for a week with no smell coming from it. Today after I reassembled her, I turned the ignition on to test the compressor, the front directionals & the stereo. I never started the bike but I did hear the fuel pump.

Well there's a gas odor again. SO

I have to conclude it must be the line between the feul pump & carbs since the starter didn't crank.

 

Fun!

[Yammer Dan]

Pulling the Stuff to get to it isn't that bad. Its been a while though and I will have to go look to remember what. And its covered with white stuff....

[cabreco]

Ok now that i conquered the slave, the air leak, the stripped reservoir screws & the fork oil leak, I'm going to tackle the gas stink.

 

Since I want to do a gas filter ANYWAY, I figure I will change all the fuel lines.

 

 

 

So I wanted to know if anyone had the diameter/sizes & type of hose recommended for:

1. The petcock to gas filter hose.
   
2. Gas filter to fuel pump hose
   
3. Fuel pump to carb hose
   
4. Tank vent hose
   

I figure it this way, the bike is 28 years old, she sat for awhile after the original owner died.

I wouldn't doubt it if they are OEM.Rubber breaks down & it couldn't hurt to replace them.

 

It would be easier to buy a few feet of the appropriate hoses

before I take the old ones out.

BTW can I use ANY gas filter or just a Yamaha filter?

[jasonm.]

you can rule out the petcock and hose from it because that hose always has pressure from the fuel in the tank when "on" or res. This leaves the carbs leaking or hose after the filter or filter. You said someone did the carbs?...I still think it's the carbs w/bad bowl gaskets. Pump to carb is 1/4"...filter to pump is 1/4 at pump and 5/16 at filter. Both ends of filter are 5/16". I suggest removing the air box. Disconnecting the fuel hose and Plugging and clamping it . Then turn on the igniton to find the leak. No leak..it's the carbs

Edited January 28, 2012 by jasonm.

[wrenchrob]

Talking about BAD GAS SMELL I think the 2 cheeseburgers with the hot peppers and horseradish is starting to produce something similar to what your experiencing!

[cabreco]

More details:

 

Ok the plot thickens. The smell of gas is not as bad as when I first posted,

possibly due to the 2 tanks of gas & seafoam I have run through it.

 

This is what happens now.

 

I take the bike for a ride. I park her in the garage. Within a 1/2 hour I go in there

and the smell is basically mechanical (the smell a hot gas powered vehicle makes).

No problem.

After an hour or so the garage has a gasoline odor. (not as strong as before)

I open the garage door & let it air out for 10 minutes. I close the door.

The gas smell does not return unless I take her out again.

 

I think Bernice is just messing with me now! ...but it has gotten much better.

[cabreco]

Just an update.

 

I found the source of the smell: The right rear carb lower boot between the carb & the engine was damp. I sprayed a whole can of carb cleaner on the carbs. Every time I would run the bike I could NOW see the lower boot would gurgle at the clamp & weep down the boot. Hence the gas smell. Once that evaporated the smell would dissipate.

 

Wiped it down, tightened the clamp & went for a ride. Parked the bike, closed the garage door & FINALLY no more heavy gas smell!

[Venturous Randy]

Andy, I am afraid you may not have fixed the problem, you just fixed the symptom. If you had gas that was leaking from the carb and down the outside of the boot and then you tightened the clamp, the gas is now leaking down the inside of the boot and into the engine. This is not good either. You did good in isolating the leak to a particular carb, but you may still need to figure out where the gas is leaking from on that carb.

RandyA

[cabreco]

Andy, I am afraid you may not have fixed the problem, you just fixed the symptom. If you had gas that was leaking from the carb and down the outside of the boot and then you tightened the clamp, the gas is now leaking down the inside of the boot and into the engine. This is not good either. You did good in isolating the leak to a particular carb, but you may still need to figure out where the gas is leaking from on that carb.

RandyA

 

Well for now it takes care of the main deal... The wreak in the garage! I'll keep running Seafoam in the bike for a few more tanks.

From what I understand, the previous owners had the carbs rebuilt & the diaphragms replaced, but you know the old adage, "if you didn't do it yourself, it may not really have been done".

I have a complete carb bank from the parts bike that I will be rebuilding myself. Next time there will be no doubt.

 

[Condor]

Attached below are a few pictures of a 1st gen petcock. Greg said it had a 3-4" long bar. It's more like an inch long.

 

And, Greg, being from England, said to get your torch out and look for leak. In the states, we call what he meant a flashlight. Torch is bad around gas.

 

Gary

 

I thought that was the case. Thanks for the pics Gary. You saved me a trip out to the garage to make sure what I think I saw, was what I saw.... .....