How would you have avoided this ...

[MikeWa]

Practice practice practice. Then practice practice practice some more.

Mike

[Flyinfool]

Maybe I need to watch it more than once. I can't from the office but, in my minds eye, he had locked up the rear and was fishtailing. If he would have grabbed more front and locked up the front, wouldn't that have sent him over the top? I guess I should go look at it again.

 

If you hit to much rear brake and the rear locks you are best off to keep it locked till you are straight, it is when you release the rear and it suddenly grabs while going sideways that you will high side.

If you grab to much front brake and the front starts to skid, you should immediately reduce pressure on the front and counter steer to keep the front wheel pointed in the direction you are going, till it starts rolling again. A skidding front will not high side you, but it will cause the front to wash out and take you down just the same.

 

A skidding tire does not have any idea which direction it is supposed to be going or is pointed. That is why you release the front because you have the ability to steer it to point it in the correct direction. Because you can not steer the rear tire is why you can only release it when it happens to be going in the right direction or it will grab and since your lean angle is most likely wrong, it will throw you over the top.

[halfwitt]

That is why you release the front because you have the ability to steer it to point it in the correct direction. Because you can not steer the rear tire is why you can only release it when it happens to be going in the right direction or it will grab and since your lean angle is most likely wrong, it will throw you over the top.

 

Which is why I disagreed with applying more front brake. Maybe I got the direction that the rider would fly incorrect.

 

Anyway - not a smart place to pass. Resisting the urge to catch up with his buddies would have avoided the whole mess.

[BuddyRich]

If you hit to much rear brake and the rear locks you are best off to keep it locked till you are straight,

I disagree with this. Many times I have locked the rear wheel. If you get off of it just as soon as you feel it lock then your better off. If you do the bike won't get so far sideways as to high side you. If you don't and the bike starts to get sideways then that's different. But I have avoided being high sided by gripping the tank with my legs and expecting it to happen. Its gets interesting but can be done.

[Flyinfool]

I disagree with this. Many times I have locked the rear wheel. If you get off of it just as soon as you feel it lock then your better off. If you do the bike won't get so far sideways as to high side you. If you don't and the bike starts to get sideways then that's different. But I have avoided being high sided by gripping the tank with my legs and expecting it to happen. Its gets interesting but can be done.

 

We don't disagree, we totally agree. If you get off of the rear brake as soon as you feel it start to lock up, then the rear wheel is still going in the right direction and you will not high side. It is only once the back end is no longer pointing in the same direction as the bike is going, that you will high side.

[SilvrT]

We don't disagree, we totally agree. If you get off of the rear brake as soon as you feel it start to lock up, then the rear wheel is still going in the right direction and you will not high side. It is only once the back end is no longer pointing in the same direction as the bike is going, that you will high side.

 

I agree with you agreeing with his disagreeing that he's agreeing with your agreement...!!!

[albyzee]

Personally I don't care what brake he hit DOUBLE YELLOW=Absolutely No Passing PERIOD. It's bad enough a stop sign has turned into a running stop and in most cases a yield. NO NO NO other way people MUST obey the law in those cases.

[Hummingbird]

One other thing I noticed from the start was that whomever had the helmet cam on either didn't have it adjusted to his field of vision or if he did he did not utilize his full field of vision. It sure looked at times that the camera was picking up a LOT less that the eye could see.

 

Or maybe I just want to see more than the camera was showing when I ride or drive my cage

 

[SC89Venture]

Do you think he would have tried that if he had not been in a group ride?

If riding solo, he may have thought better than to pass on double yellow.

Just thinking....

[SilvrT]

Personally I don't care what brake he hit DOUBLE YELLOW=Absolutely No Passing PERIOD. It's bad enough a stop sign has turned into a running stop and in most cases a yield. NO NO NO other way people MUST obey the law in those cases.

 

Not meaning any disrespect here but.... seeing as you are so adamant about this, stop and think a while .... do you honestly and truthfully ALWAYS obey every rule and law to the "T" .... no exceptions? ... now think hard before you answer....

 

I do agree with you tho that folks have become very lax and don't obey the rules of the road to the letter anywhere near what they should or for that matter, used to do years ago and it does make our driving experience much more dangerous. That being said, it wasn't crossing the double yellow line that was the cause of the accident...that really has nothing to do with it IMHO. There was sufficient room ahead for a pass .... it's just that both tried to do it at the same time.

 

Very interesting comments here!

[Condor]

Personally I don't care what brake he hit DOUBLE YELLOW=Absolutely No Passing PERIOD. It's bad enough a stop sign has turned into a running stop and in most cases a yield. NO NO NO other way people MUST obey the law in those cases.

 

In a perfect world you're right, but in reality it doesn't always work out that way. I wonder just how long it would take someone to pass a snail moving motorhome when it was safe.... double yellow or no?? 1 mile.. 5 miles.. 10 miles??

On the accident, I wonder how many would have had the same thing happen to them in the same situation. Steering out of a high side looks good on paper and can be discussed ad nausium, but in real life in an elbows and a$$holes situation, when everything is happening in a nano-second, all the training in the world isn't going to keep you safe.

[SilvrT]

In a perfect world you're right, but in reality it doesn't always work out that way. I wonder just how long it would take someone to pass a snail moving motorhome when it was safe.... double yellow or no?? 1 mile.. 5 miles.. 10 miles??

On the accident, I wonder how many would have had the same thing happen to them in the same situation. Steering out of a high side looks good on paper and can be discussed ad nausium, but in real life in an elbows and a$$holes situation, when everything is happening in a nano-second, all the training in the world isn't necessarilly going to keep you safe.

 

Just a slight edit to your words Jack .... otherwise, love your comment LOL

[albyzee]

But if everybody thinks who cares about the double yellow I'm just going or maybe why should I stop at the stop sign. Why have any laws at all? There will be many more and worse accidents than this and of course deaths. I don't think anybody wants that to happen to anyone they know or even their own family. Some things must be adhered to sorry no exceptions. Passing the double yellow here IS the whole reason for the accident. Look at the video again it happened because BOTH of them thought it was OK to break the law. I happen to like being in one piece and being alive there is absolutely no way I would have passed. That's me. I may speed where I feel it's warranted but at least I can see ahead of me when I do. Don't get me wrong I know things happen but this whole thing should have been avoided. I drive a bike with a heck of alot more respect in my elder age I'll tell you that. This is of course all my opinion no one has to agree with me. That's how I feel.

[DANGEROUSDANA]

If I were on that bike in that same situation, I am absolutely positive that I would not have crashed. It would not have even developed into a close call. That being said, now I drive an RSV and I have to consider that near 1000 lbs in every move I make. I would not have attempted that on the RSV. My vote for the cause of this crash is ABSOLUTELY lack of riding experience or skill. As my good friend Clint once said, "A man's got to know his limitations."

[SilvrT]

But if everybody thinks who cares about the double yellow I'm just going or maybe why should I stop at the stop sign. Why have any laws at all? There will be many more and worse accidents than this and of course deaths. I don't think anybody wants that to happen to anyone they know or even their own family. Some things must be adhered to sorry no exceptions. Passing the double yellow here IS the whole reason for the accident. Look at the video again it happened because BOTH of them thought it was OK to break the law. I happen to like being in one piece and being alive there is absolutely no way I would have passed. That's me. I may speed where I feel it's warranted but at least I can see ahead of me when I do. Don't get me wrong I know things happen but this whole thing should have been avoided. I drive a bike with a heck of alot more respect in my elder age I'll tell you that. This is of course all my opinion no one has to agree with me. That's how I feel.

 

We totally respect your feeling on this... well, at least I do but I simply don't agree that the accident happened BECAUSE they chose to pass when there was a double line. The accident happened because they both chose to pass at basically the same time and the bike rider reacted too late, panicked, was inexperienced in that situation, and lost control. That's how I feel. Yes, it would not have happened if the biker had not tried to pass but he did ... and so did the car at basically the same time. Take the line out of the equation ... was there room to pass? ... yes Was the biker into the other lane and attempting to pass before the car? ... yes The car driver should have been aware of the biker and the biker should have anticipated and reacted better than he did. That's how I feel.

 

Regardless of who feels what... this does make for an interesting discussion, not to mention it brings to the forefront some very important things to know and remember.

[BlueVenture87]

It looks as if everyone should get a round of tickets. I see failure to signal, double yellow / no passing zone leaving an accident etc. I also think that's a lot of brake slide and smoke for a 35 mph zone. The cage was likely more at fault for starting the crash but this situation happens so often in urban commuting that the final straw was inexperience of the rider. I get "lane shared" once or twice a summer commuting at about the same speed and after the first four or five times you can see it before it happens.

 

Bummer that somone got scuffed up though.

 

-JK

[bmxndad]

If I felt I absolutely had to pass on a double yellow line for whatever reason. That thought would damn sure leave my head as soon as I saw a bicycle coming the other direction.

[BradT]

I think the original question was how to avoid this type of accident, lets assume the passing was done legally with everyone using blinkers and so on. The biker decided to go and then all of a sudden the car turns in front of you. HOW do you avoid it ?

 

I think the short answer is too pay attention, there was signs that the car was impatient. Personally I would make sure the car new I was there, maybe even blast of the stable so that he knows I am there, before I thought of passing.

 

Brad

[SilvrT]

... if you got caught in this situation, how would you have handled it and avoided going down?

 

I think the original question was how to avoid this type of accident,

 

More specifically .... "avoided going down"

[Flyinfool]

More specifically .... "avoided going down"

 

Ignoring the fact that the pass should have never been attempted.

The short answer is proper use of the brakes would have avoided the crash all together with no more damage than a bulldozer to pull your shorts back out of where they got sucked up into.

[Marcarl]

Well first of all in answer to training,,,, yep we all train, to some degree, but none of really know how that will play out in real life until we get into the situation that was trained for, until then, and only then, will we know for sure how that training really worked.

The training that didn't work for the rider in this case, is defensive riding,, if he trained for it,. Never mind the yellow lines, sure it's illegal, but he missed point number one,,,, the guy in the Lexus. As said before, the rider needed to consider the Lexus. First of all, it's a Lexus and born to GO,,,, secondly the Lexus was on the guy in front of him so he wanted to GO,,,, third, was the Lexus driver going to check his side view before he pulled out,,,,, fourth, would the Lexus want to outrun a bike, ( after all, 2 had already passed him, so who was going to be the next),,,, fifth, when the rider pulled out to pass, he thought he had it made and forgot to double check the Lexus, had he done point #5 he would have time to avoid going down, but at this time he was going and thought he had it over the Lexus,,,,, wroooong!!!!!