Ebay Dead NiCD Battery - Resurrected

[GolfVenture]

Does anyone know if this really works? Found it on Ebay? I expect someone will just say to use the recharger.

 

ZAP-IT® BACK TO LIFE for RYOBI ONE+ NiCD DRILL BATTERY 7.2 9.6 12 14.4 18 VOLT

 

[Flyinfool]

Need more info. Maybe a link?

 

There are ways to "zap" a nicad that can fix SOME problems.

[GolfVenture]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FIX-NiCD-BATTERY-PACK-RYOBI-ONE-Cordless-Finish-Nailer-Drill-Saw-Planer-18v-/220911268169?pt=US_Power_Tools_Batteries_Chargers&hash=item336f567149

[bkuhr]

This appears to be just a CD to explain how to charge Ni-Cad batteries, and even spelling errors:I saw Ni-CD listed once. Wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole.

 

As for charging Ni-Cad batteries, I actually have a lot of experience in an aircraft Ni-Cad battery shop. Ni-Cad batteries deliever great amounts of power, vs "lead batteries", but have bad problem with 'memory'.

 

Battery assemblies REQUIRE the individual cells to be drained then shorted for 24 hours to stabilize the memory at zero volts. This is not normally possible with 'packs' such as drill battery packs. You could short the pack for 24 hours, but then if you inspected the individual cells you would find some with + volts and some with - volts. (although pack manufactures do recommend a procedure to completely discharge the pack prior to recharge, as it does help, although not perfect) after a time the + volts and - volts have added up, and the available capacity to recharge has diminished.

 

We typically removed/replaced cells that fail to zero after 24 hour short. After slow controlled recharge, Assembly is load tested for controlled load and time, and cells inspected for balanced drain. Failed cells removed and replaced again(and all zero'd out again, the charge-load test again). Then final recharge.

 

When we had time, we would build a battery assembly with failed cells, and try 3 times thru charge, short 24 hours, etc to recover cells. Typically less than 20% recover.

 

Picture of aircraft battery:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel%E2%80%93cadmium_battery_(vented_cell_type)

 

Can't speak much for sealed cells such as drill packs but suspect they are simular, and the gimmick he is selling on the CD would have no effect in a bad pack, and if manufacture procedures were followed to start with, you would have acheived max life.

[Flyinfool]

I agree that this is just a CD with instructions that will most likely involve equipment that the average user will not have available. The CD may even just be a hook to try to get you to go back and buy some equipment from them. The equipment that you will need to TRY to save a pack may cost more than a new pack.

It just sounds to much like a scam to me.

[Condor]

We use to Zap ni-cad Camera batteries. Doesn't take much, just a blast of high voltage for an instant. We used 110vac. Sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't, but it was worth a try. Disclaimer... Try at you own risk.. !! I think that the Ebay item is doing that with a pulse generator..?? Thank God for lithiums.....

[Flyinfool]

Thank God for lithiums.....

 

The more that I use and learn about lithium's the better I like Ni-Cad.

There are things that can be done with lithium's that can not be done with Ni-Cad but as a reliable power source Ni-Cad wins hands down over lithium.

[Condor]

The more that I use and learn about lithium's the better I like Ni-Cad.

There are things that can be done with lithium's that can not be done with Ni-Cad but as a reliable power source Ni-Cad wins hands down over lithium.

 

Edited... The biggest PITA about a Ni-Cad is you have to use them constantly or they'll go bad, and they also forget to hold a charge when constantly being topped off. In construction work on a daily basis they'd be great. Kill it and recharge... ditto. Let one sit around for months and it likely will be useless. That's the beauty part of a Lithium. You can top it off daily no matter what the charge condition, and low use will not hurt performance.... To each his own...

Edited December 9, 2011 by Condor

[Flyinfool]

Believe it or not this is the short version.

 

Lithium cells have a working voltage range of 4.2 to 3.0 V per cell.

If you charge to more than 4.2V per cell you just permanently destroyed the cell. Precautions for this are built into every charger so this is not much of an issue.

However if you ever discharge the cell to less than 3.0V per cell you will also do permanent damage to the cell. Many devices also have precautions for this built in where they will shut themselves off if they get close to that 3.0V point. But there are also many devices that do not have this built in protection. If you run till there is a noticeable loss of power you are probably over the edge.

When you are going to store (anything more than a couple of weeks of non use) a lithium battery, they want to be stored at 50% charge. If stored at full or minimum charge they will start to lose capacity. It is this feature that makes them not real well suited for powering things that are only used occasionally. Most chargers do not have a storage charge mode.

Some advantages of lithium are that they have a very low self discharge rate so if left charged they are more likely to still have some power when you need it. But as mentioned above storing them with a full charge will degrade their performance.

 

Ni-Cad cells have super low internal resistance so they are able to put out tremendous amounts of current for a short time. This makes the well suited for things that have high spike current demands. You can run a Ni-cad down to nothing and not damage the cells In fact I store my Ni-Cads with a resistor attached across the terminals to hold them at zero volts so that they are always ready to charge and go. Ni-Cad cells will live thru a lot more charge discharge cycles than will lithium.

Cadmium is well know to be bad for the environment, most people do not yet understand how bad lithium is for the environment. There is more reason than just cost why there are few if any lithium batteries being manufactured in the USA. They are made in other countries with looser environmental laws. Most lithium cells come from China. It's the same reasons there are few, if any Ni-cad made in the USA.

 

With its big lithium batteries a Toyota Prius has a more negative environmental impact of its full life than a Chevy Tahoe even with all of the extra gas the Tahoe will burn. It is the impact of the manufacture and disposal of the lithium batteries at beginning and end of life that that makes the Tahoe more environmentally friendly than a Prius.

 

But then when they are being used regularly and correctly, lithium batteries work great and do have there places.

[Flyinfool]

No fair editing while I am still typing the reply........

[MidlifeVenture]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzIlVLOH9XI]Zap Ni-Cd Batteries with a Welder - YouTube[/ame]

We have done this at work it does work.

[bkuhr]

We have done this at work it does work.

Did I mention that vented Ni-Cad aircraft batteries release HYDROGEN during both charge and discharge. Battery shop has massive venting hood.

Hate to think about the pressure in a sealed battery!

[Condor]

No fair editing while I am still typing the reply........

 

 

Sorry about that... Had second thoughts about what I'd originally posted... All I can remember is baby sitting ni-cads constanly. Between flashes, cameras, and motordrives they were a PITA. And became very expensive to replace over the long run. Lith's lasted much longer. MOF I had a Megellan DX10 marine gps in my ditch bag aboard the boat. It was powered by a 8 AA liths, and after 10 years of just sitting I checked the voltage and they still read 1.5vdc. Surprised the 'H' out of me.

[GolfVenture]

Is that the only way to zap a NiCD is with a welder? I do not know what is happening when one zaps it with a welder.

 

So here is my stupid question.

 

Can I do the same with a 50 amp battery charger without damaging the charger?

[Flyinfool]

It does not have to be a welder, it can be any power source that is capable of lots of amps at a voltage that is much higher than the pack you are trying to zap. That welder was probably at around 35V and had the ability to deliver 100+ amps into that 12v ni-cad battery.

I have used a car battery to zap single cells.

 

A common failure mode for Ni-Cad is an internal short between the + and - plates, The high power zap hits that internal short and vaporizes it.

[GolfVenture]

So the battery is an 18 volt NiCD and my battery charger is a 12 volt at 50 amp max. So I guessing the answer is no.

 

I do not have anything that is greater than 18 volts.

[Flyinfool]

12V will not zap an 18V battery.

But if you take the 18V battery apart, you can find and zap he individual cells with your 12V charger.

[GolfVenture]

So if one take the NiCD apart are there 18 cells I'm guessing. Then there is a plus and a minus to each cell then do the welding trick on each cell

 

Zap to lower the volt reading then reverse the leads and zap several times. Clean off each ends then measure for a highter volt reading near the 18 volts. Then clean off the ends. Not having taken an 18 Volt NiCd appart.

 

Guess for now just buy another NiCD then look for a neighbor with a welder some day.

[Flyinfool]

Ni-Cad cells are 1.2 V each, so there will be 15 cells in an 18V pack.

 

Yes each cell has a + and a -.

You do not need a welder.

Just use jumper cables to your car battery as the power source.

 

Use your volt meter to find which cells are bad and only zap the bad ones.

You do not have to break up the welded connections between cells.

[GolfVenture]

Ok, you make it sound like something I can do.

 

Thanks.

[Flyinfool]

I'm sorry.........