Starting Problems

[uthpda]

I need a little help! My bike won't start. I just finished working on my turn signals (the cancellation unit connection was loose and dirty) started her up and was getting ready for a little drive with the working turn signals, but first stopped by work to get something (about 2 minutes away). Went in and came back out and would not start.

The power comes on and accessories and but there is nothing at all when I hit the starter...nothing.

 

I have tried the following....

Checked kill switch (many times)

Trying with kickstand up and down... clutch in and out...etc.

Jumped the kickstand shutoff switch

check fuses

 

What other things should I check? It is sitting in a parking lot, so easy stuff first is best. Is there an easy way to check the starter switch? Is there a way to bypass the switch to get the bike started so I can get it home to the garage?

Any advice is welcome

[utadventure]

Will it start while in neutral?

 

Dave

[uthpda]

won't start at all...won't even turn over

[IH Truck Guy]

Does the headlite come on when you turn the key on?????

When you hit the starter switch,does the head lite go out???

[uthpda]

Headlight comes on when I turn the key on (all the electrical works fine with the key on..radio intercom, etc.)

The headlight does go off when I hit the start button. I think that means that the switch itself is probably ok.

Also tried to jump it, in case the battery didn't have enough juice (although it should, it is in good shape and voltage looks ok) No luck.

I did notice that when I press the starter, the voltage meter goes up, don't know if that means anything, but I seemed odd.

[bkuhr]

Loose battery connection.

Dont just jiggle it, take it apart,plus and minus, sand fittings and posts shiney, and put back together. Also same for main ground lower right engine.

[skydoc_17]

Hey Dave,

Sounds like the starter solenoid has bit the dust!

I have a good used one, and can order you a new one if that would help.

Earl

[uthpda]

Battery connections are good, so I am thinking the solenoid is the problem. Anyway to check it to know for sure? And how much of a pain is it to switch out?

 

Skydoc - how much for the used one and how much do the new ones run?

[bkuhr]

Under edge of left fairing, follow big red wire from battery.

Split fairing or pull entire battery box to replace, but pry boot up with screwdriver and short accross top screw terminals to turn starter. Will arc and spark- don't do it to much or will melt screw terminals to point they can not be removed.

 

Could be solinoid, but still betting corrosion under battery connection will pass enough amps for lights, but not enough for starter.

 

Reason volt gage goes up, as start switch turns headlight off, decreasing load-increasing volts.

[uthpda]

ok, not too sure what you were asking me to do. Sorry for not getting it, but just didn't totally understand.

 

What I did do was clean the battery terminals and check the ground. No change.

I also took a jumper cable from battery to starter..it would crank but very slowly

Also tried from a car battery (not on a running car) it would crank, but very slowly

 

So does that help diagnose the problem? It makes be wonder if it is the starter...that will be a pain I am thinking.

[frankd]

No, because the bike does crank slowly when you connect a jumper cable to the starter directly, it means that your starter is functional.

 

Next you need to check the solenoid. As Skydoc has mentioned, solenoids do go bad. I've got a meeting to go to, but later I will tell you how to test the solenoid, but basically you need to measure with a voltmeter or a test light (to ground), and make sure that voltage is getting to the solenoid when you push the starter pushbutton.

 

Frank D.

[uthpda]

Push started it this morning and got it home to the garage...I should have some time to do some testing on it tonight. I have a voltmeter and can check thing out. I have it, but need to know what/how to check so I am looking forward to your recommendations.

Thanks for all the help!

Edited October 11, 2011 by uthpda

[frankd]

OK, glad you got it home.

 

Take your voltmeter (or a test light) ground one lead. Connect the other lead (positive, if you're using an analog meter) to the starter solenoid small blue/white (blue with a white tracer) wire. Even with the key off, you should have 12V there. If you do, turn the key on (and be on the center stand with the side stand up, and in neutral) and the voltage should drop to zero.

 

If you don't have 12 volts on the blue/white wire, and you do on the battery lead, your solenoid is bad (coil is probably open). If you do have 12 volts on the blue/white wire and it doesn't go to zero when you push the start pushbutton, there are several other possibilites, and we'll have to walk our way through (no problem).

 

Frank D.

[scottbly]

I have a good solenoid on ebay if you need it. From a 84 VR

 

Here are the listing details:

http://q.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzY4WDEwMjQ=/$(KGrHqV,!hEE5ov!8PF2BOiluHjG+!~~60_0.JPG?set_id=8800005007

Yamaha Venture Starter solenoid with cable, mount and main fuse Item Id: 320769474702 Starting price: $15.00 End time: Oct-13-11 18:05:43 PDT

[frankd]

Well, I'm at work and I don't have a Mk1 wiring diagram here, so I used the Mk2 diagram I have here on my computer. I went on E-bay to see what you would have to go through to get to the blue/white wire while it's connected to the bike. It turns out that the Mk1 and the Mk2 1st Gens. use different solenoids. Yours has a blue and red wire coming out of it, not a blue/white. I will have to look at my 83 manual when I get home and let you know what to measure where.

 

Frank D.

[capn eddie]

OK, glad you got it home.

 

Take your voltmeter (or a test light) ground one lead. Connect the other lead (positive, if you're using an analog meter) to the starter solenoid small blue/white (blue with a white tracer) wire. Even with the key off, you should have 12V there. If you do, turn the key on (and be on the center stand with the side stand up, and in neutral) and the voltage should drop to zero.

 

If you don't have 12 volts on the blue/white wire, and you do on the battery lead, your solenoid is bad (coil is probably open). If you do have 12 volts on the blue/white wire and it doesn't go to zero when you push the start pushbutton, there are several other possibilites, and we'll have to walk our way through (no problem).

 

Frank D.

 

 

I had this happen early this year, same as yours stopped and would not start. checked solenoid by jumping it and it would start ,found out that blue/white wire was the problem. traced that wire from starter switch to a relay up in fairing above headlight and it had power going into relay but not out, cleaned plug going to relay and that took care of the problem. check it out i bet that is where your problem is at. by the way i now have run another wire off of the starter switch on the blue/ white wire then to a on/off switch then to solenoid just in case . if you add this the motor will turn over with the key in the off pos and if in gear the bike will move, that is why you need the on/off switch.hope this helps solve your problem (power going into relay but not out of relay)

[frankd]

First off, anybody that is troubleshooting the starter circuitry, make sure you have the correct schematic in front of you. 83's are different than 84 & 85's which are different than MkII bikes.

 

 

Eddie, it looks like that's where this one is going also!!

 

Dave---Now that I have an 84-85 wiring diagram in front of me (Thanks Dingy), you have a small red/white and a small blue/white wire coming out of your solenoid and going to a plug. Ground the black lead of your meter, and measure the voltage on the red/white wire. With the key and the kill switch 'on', you should have 12 volts. You probably will, because you proved your bike will run OK. Now, connect to the blue/white wire and follow what I said above. You should have 12 volts until you push the start button, and then it should go to zero. You may be able to push the red meter probe into the end of the connector or you can puncture the wire with a straight pin and tape or seal the puncture after we're through

 

Let me know what you find, and we'll proceed from there.

 

Frank D.

[uthpda]

Thanks, I will try it when I get home from work this evening and let you know what I find out!

[uthpda]

AArrrgghhh, I hate it when life get's in the way of getting the bike running...but I don't think that I will have the time to work on it tonight. Maybe squeeze some time in before work tomorrow.

 

Sigh...want to get it fix so I can ride, but I will have to wait alittle longer.

[uthpda]

ok...did what you said above...

 

12v at the red/white (the battery lead)

at the blue/white 12v and when I hit the start button, nothing changes. So maybe not the solenoid?

What next?

[uthpda]

Ok...jumped the solenoid and it will turn over...didn't get it started, but that is cuz I didn't want to keep it cranking (sparks make me nervous...lol)

 

This means it is the solenoid...or that is what I gather from looking around here on the boards. I will head to the auto parts store with the info from another thread about a replacement using a car solenoid. I think this will get me going again... we check back for any more help and to update if it works.

[bkuhr]

The r/w is the +12v from the battery

reading 12v also on the blue/w means that volts is going thru the coil of the solenoid, meaning that the coil is likely good.

 

Main ground (black) is applied on 1 side of the starter push button switch, and when the switch is pressed, the ground should be applied to the blue/w side of the solenoid, completing the circuit and energizing the coil, causing the main contacts of the solenoid the close, completing a circuit to the starter.

 

Do to the fact 12v on blue/w is not changing, you are not getting the ground from the starter switch.

 

As a quick test for the solenoid, key on, neutral, with solenoid connector connected, run a jumper wire from battery minus, and backstab into the solenoid connector blue/w.

Solenoid should energize, and the starter should crank. This proves solenoid is not defective.

 

Now most likely problem with ground from the start switch is the contacts of the switch itself. Take switch apart and lightly sand contacts. While apart repeat above quick test jumper from battery minus to blue/w contact. This will prove no wiring problem from switch to solenoid. The repeat test again with jumper from blue/w contact to black contact.(be carefully not to touch the other red/yellow or blue/black contacts with any jumper, these are the headlight cutout during starting contacts and WILL blow a fuse.)

 

If all is good reassemble the switch and you should be good to go. If something still does not work let us know.

[uthpda]

Ok... I will check that out before I do anything else. Thanks for all the help. We update when I get stuff checked out

[dingy]

Ok... I will check that out before I do anything else. Thanks for all the help. We update when I get stuff checked out

 

 

PM me, I most likely have a spare solenoid laying around here.

 

Cheap too.

 

Gary

[dingy]

ok...did what you said above...

 

12v at the red/white (the battery lead)

at the blue/white 12v and when I hit the start button, nothing changes. So maybe not the solenoid?

What next?

 

Starter solenoid circuit on the 1st gens has 12V+ applied to one wire when key is ON and kill switch is in Run position. The 12V- side is switched through the starter safety circuits.

 

Put a ground from battery to the L/W wire with key on and Kill switch in run position. WITH THE TRANNY IN NEUTRAL, this will bypass safety circuits and bike will crank in gear.

 

If solenoid does not click, it's toast. If it does click and no crank, it could still be toast. If motor cranks when you jump two heavy solenoid wires, time for a replacement solenoid.

 

Hope I didn't repeat previous info, didn't read all the posts.

 

Gary