Alternative to Molly Lube?

[Guest Slab_Ryder]

After my recent trip to the US, and stops at almost every Motorcycle Dealer in the North East, I have not been able to find Molly Lube or as referred to as Molly Dolop). What would be an appropriate substitute which is easy to find for adding to the Final Drive Gear Oil?

[BoomerCPO]

You can obtain the Honda Moly 60 via Amazon.com:cool10:

Boomer....who sez ya better have surgical gloves on when ya handle dat stuff.

[Guest Slab_Ryder]

Hmmm, will try later this evening. I've had problems getting things from Amazon delivered in Canada, in the past.

[Prairiehammer]

Honda Moly60 (available at all Honda dealers) is a paste in a toothpaste style tube. It is intended to apply to the splines of the driveshaft, for instance. I don't think it is the appropiate moly (molybdenum) to add to the final drive gear OIL. In fact, I don't know of ANY Yamaha approved additive for the final drive gear oil/lube.

[Celt]

Do you have an Acklands and Grainger store in your area ? thats where i got my moly paste. Jetlube moly 50 , cost with a bit of a discount was $30 . Its not added to the gear oil its daubed on the shaft splines etc , its a very sticky grease

[Guest Slab_Ryder]

No, but will go to my local Honda Dealer to see if they will order in. If not, I will do Amazon

[Yammer Dan]

I got a 10 oz tube of Molybdenum Disulfide Grease at the Yamaha dealer for 7 bucks. I don't think it has as much Molybdenum Disulfide content as the Honda Grease but cheaper and I think it will do fine. I don't know of one to add to final drive oil but there are several lube additives out there.

[Guest]

No, but will go to my local Honda Dealer to see if they will order in. If not, I will do Amazon

 

Any Honda or Acura car dealer should carry the stuff, cheaper then the Honda bike dealer too.

[Guest Slab_Ryder]

Ooooooo, thank you for that tidbit

[RedRider]

To reiterate, the Honda Moly60 is not to be added to the final drive oil. The final drive is designed to use the recommended SAE 80 API "GL-4" hypoid gear oil. This is available at Walmart and other fine stores. There is also a synthetic version that works.

 

The Honda Moly60 is great for greasing the drive splines and drive pins, but that is about it. Not to be used as and additive, or as a wheel bearing grease.

 

Honda car dealer is the best place I have found to get it.

 

RR

[Guest Slab_Ryder]

Ok, so the advice of putting a dab of Moly 60 in the Final Drive is wrong? How do I get at the splines?

[RandyR]

I disagree with some of what has been said here.

 

I do add a dab of Honda Moly 60 to my final drive.

 

Moly additive in a grease does nothing in the drive pins. Moly is a very high pressure lubricant, great for gears that exert high pressure on each other.

 

That said Honda Moly 60 is an excellant lubricant, but the moly has little to do with it in our applications.

 

Ok, so the advice of putting a dab of Moly 60 in the Final Drive is wrong? How do I get at the splines?

 

See the Tech Library on removing rear wheel.

[Guest Slab_Ryder]

Thank you RandyR!

[dingy]

I disagree with some of what has been said here.

 

I do add a dab of Honda Moly 60 to my final drive.

 

Moly additive in a grease does nothing in the drive pins. Moly is a very high pressure lubricant, great for gears that exert high pressure on each other.

 

That said Honda Moly 60 is an excellant lubricant, but the moly has little to do with it in our applications.

 

 

I gotta agree with Randy that using moly grease is of little value on the rear hub drive pins. This contact area is fairly fixed mate, zero rotational or sliding forces. The stress on this junction comes from the size difference from the pin to the hole. The clicking that has been discussed often here is likely the result of a few thousands of an inch difference which allows connection to move slightly, rotated about the axle center line. The grease added likely acts as a filler reducing movement and dulling the perceived noise. Peanut butter would probably work here.

 

On the other hand though, the rear drive unit is an extremely harsh environment where a quality oil of ones choosing is needed. This is not the place to use the Auto Zone or Harbor Freight house brands. Granted, with the big names, some of that money is marketing costs, but there is also many good chemists and a R&D program factored in there. That brings me to the point of why add something else, like moly, to a quality product. I have no idea if this will do any harm, I doubt it, but is probably much more of a feel good thing rather than a tangible benefit.

 

Gary

[Guest Slab_Ryder]

Thanks guys. When I change the FDO, I am using the Yamaha Gear Oil. I am going into a Local Honda Car dealer tomorrow, then into my Local Honda Bike Dealer. Cheers guys, you're VERY helpful. I have started a routine of every other Oil Change, I do a FDO change too.

 

Sigh, another Road Trip next week (soon to be the last of the year). LIFE, is good!

[MiCarl]

The point of the Molybdenum grease is it stays put rather than working out under pressure. In your final drive the gears are re-bathed in oil every revolution.

 

The moly grease is for non wet applications where a conventional grease can be worked out by high pressure. Yamaha specifies it for the final drive splines and some other places.

 

I suspect the "clicking" of the final drive pins is a stick-slip condition of the parts moving relative to each other. No reason not to use moly grease to quiet it although peanut butter would be cheaper:Avatars_Gee_George:

[V7Goose]

I know I'm gonna step on more toes here, but the point of my posts is not to try and make friends. I hope I can get some people to do their own research and make informed decisions instead of just blindly swallowing whatever opinion is shouted the loudest.

 

An awful lot of what I have seen in this thread (and others on the same subject) is just bad information. The vast majority of moly grease is 3-5% molybdenum, and this is absolutely sufficient is virtually all appropriate applications - if a higher concentration was needed, you would find LOTs of vendors selling high concentration moly grease. But you do not. You don't because any concentration over 5% is primarily snake oil. There may be a very few specific applications that really need 50%+ moly, but you can be danged sure that the manufacturer will ALWAYS make a point of specifying it when that is so!

 

Now let's talk a little about how moly works and were it is needed. Molybdenum actually imbeds itself in the surface of the steal, and it continues to provide some lubricating features in situations where all the normal lubricant is completely washed or worn away. This is typically in dry joints on heavy equipment like earth-movers. As such, it is ideal for an application like the drive pins. It provides very little benefit in any application where the normal oil or grease is always present, such as inside a gear box or final drive, or in a joint with grease seals. Furthermore, the feature of molybdenum that makes it valuable in dry joints (that it imbeds itself in the surface of the steel) actually makes it DAMAGING in some applications. This is particularly true in a high speed bearing. Moly grease can cause galling to bearing surfaces where close tolerances and high speeds are typical.

 

My personal opinion is that oil additives are generally a bad thing, in both engines and gear boxes. The commercial oils already have all the appropriate additives, including moly, in the best concentration for the intended use. If the makers of various oils were actually selling such crud that did not work properly without extra additives, they would quickly be exposed by their competitors and the many professional testing labs - but that just is not true. To use something like a moly grease as your own imagined idea of a good additive is just plain begging for damage and system failure. I use normal 5% moly grease in some very specific applications, such as the drive pins and drive shaft splines. I do NOT use it in any application where the grease is held in by seals, and I NEVER waste my money on something like Honda Moly 60 unless it is expressly called for by the manufacturer.

 

I do not ask you to accept my thoughts on this, but to the extent they differ from your favorite pundits, I suggest you really should do some of your own research before you decide which way to go.

Goose

Edited September 30, 2011 by V7Goose

[Guest]

actually makes it DAMAGING in some applications. This is particularly true in a high speed bearing. Moly grease can cause galling to bearing surfaces where close tolerances and high speeds are typical.

 

Goose

 

Goose, not challenging you on this but I have been using Moly 60 in my wheel bearings for years with no issues that I am aware of. That being said, I am in the process of replacing my front and eventually rear wheel bearings and am open to any other types of grease you could recommend. Have you seen any galling from the Moly 60 personally or seen any indication from others that this can happen? Just want to make an informed decision and im open to any suggestions.

[V7Goose]

Goose, not challenging you on this but I have been using Moly 60 in my wheel bearings for years with no issues that I am aware of. That being said, I am in the process of replacing my front and eventually rear wheel bearings and am open to any other types of grease you could recommend. Have you seen any galling from the Moly 60 personally or seen any indication from others that this can happen? Just want to make an informed decision and im open to any suggestions.

I do not fear challenges, nor do I mind questions - that is how we test ideas.

 

I do not use Moly 60 in any application, so I do not have personal experience with it. My knowledge of the issues comes from research, which is why I do not use it. I would not expect wheel bearings to be a major problem with moly - they just do not turn fast enough, nor are the tolerances very close - I imagine that application is maybe on the edge of what might be problematic. I would more expect to see bearing problems if a moly grease was used in bearings in an electric motor.

 

For lubrication of wheel bearings, I personally select any of the greases specifically labeled as wheel bearing grease if I they are not in an enclosure with zerk fittings. For trailers with zerks, I use any standard lithium grease and Bearing Buddys (spring loaded caps that keep the grease pressed into the bearings). For boat trailers, I use a waterproof grease.

 

As far as I am concerned, the best guideline to proper oils and greases is the manufacturer. Especially for a machine with a 5-year, unlimited mile warranty, it is in their best interest to specify what works best - not only to prevent expensive warranty claims, but to build a reputation of quality with the customer base. If the manufacturer does not specify a moly lube in a specific application, then the average joe is totally fooling themselves to imagine they know better.

Goose

[Guest]

I do not fear challenges, nor do I mind questions - that is how we test ideas.

 

I do not use Moly 60 in any application, so I do not have personal experience with it. My knowledge of the issues comes from research, which is why I do not use it. I would not expect wheel bearings to be a major problem with moly - they just do not turn fast enough, nor are the tolerances very close - I imagine that application is maybe on the edge of what might be problematic. I would more expect to see bearing problems if a moly grease was used in bearings in an electric motor.

 

Goose

 

Thanks Goose, you just opened the door for those pesky 1st genners.....LOL

 

But seriously, thanks for the input.

[dingy]

I would not expect wheel bearings to be a major problem with moly - they just do not turn fast enough, nor are the tolerances very close - I imagine that application is maybe on the edge of what might be problematic. I would more expect to see bearing problems if a moly grease was used in bearings in an electric motor.

Goose

 

I would take minor issue with the statement that wheel bearings are not toleranced very close. I was tooling & gauging engineer at a former GM wheel bearing mfg. in Sandusky Oh. The processes that were used to produce these bearings was extremely tight. The bearings went through many heat treatments and machining was a three step process of turning, grinding then honing. The ball bearings where measured so that all in a given bearing where within 1 micron. One of the gauges I remember working on had a tolerance of +/-.00005".

 

Granted, the wheel bearings are a tapered roller bearing in the bike wheels, but they will be built with the same precision.

 

Gary

[Guest Slab_Ryder]

Went to my local Honda Car Dealer today. All they carried was Moly 77, and would not order the Moly 60 in. My local Honda Motorcycle Dealer has tubes of Moly 60 @$21.00/tube CAD.

 

Putting this into further cost context, my rear Volume knob fell off or was removed. Ordered one in @ $23.75 CAD

[reddevilmedic]

when did walmart get classified as a "fine store?"

[pickinfred]

My local Honda Motorcycle Dealer has tubes of Moly 60 @$21.00/tube CAD.

 

I bought my 07 RSV with 2100 miles, at 3000 miles while backing the bike out of the garage, I could hear a noise in the final drive/rear axle area. Raising the bike on the jack and rotating the rear tire verified a problem existed. A quick search on this site and two hours later, I realized I had absorbed another $50+ of information.

I removed the rear wheel and etc., cleaned the drive pins (dry and dirty---no doubt the problem area) and also brushed and cleaned the drive bushings. After cleaning the drive splines and drive shaft splines ( by the way at 3000 miles they still looked OK with grease) I gave all splines, pins, bushings and etc. a good coating of Moly 60 as instructed here on VR.

At 8000 I knew the drive pins were getting dry/dirty after the noise experienced at 3000 miles. I found the pins, splines and etc. to be pretty much the same as I did at 3000 miles. The moly 60 looked great on the splines but not on the pins and bushings.

The bike had been washed ? times and ran in rain a few times. While and looking thru the holes that are cast in the wheels.....the pins and bushings are exposed to any/all water, dirt and etc, that goes thru those casting holes ( not the best engineering IMHO )......sooo I think a grease with the best resistance to water should be the grease for the drive pins????

I did a comparison of different greases....simply trying to find the one that best resisted water and Dawn detergent on the hands as well as metal... while also showing good lubricating properties and ability to with stand heat.

I cleaned and lubed with Green Grease and everything seems OK with 4800 miles.......but time tells a lot of stories.

The Moly 60 seems to be the grease of choice for most members here....and no doubt is a good product......I just think the Green Grease resists water better. Hopefully someone will find a way to plug/block the casting holes that are in the wheels without compromising bearings...seals...splines from a possible "heat buildup"or ???? I have some ideas but would like to hear yours. I'm sure about any grease would work for the drive pins...if the holes were blocked.

With Autumn usually there is more rain and hopefully before the riding season ends I will have 6000+ miles since the Green Grease was used and feel the grease was exposed to equal or more water/dirt than was the Moly 60........Then I will be able to decide for myself!!

The Green Grease was $8 at NAPA for a gun type cartridge (14oz.)

 

 

 

http://www.greengrease.net/