Turn Signal & 4 Way Flasher Wiring Trouble Shooting

[GolfVenture]

Need Advise:

 

My parts source in Puyallup Wa did not have the Hazard SW nor the 41R Relay. So I'm into the wires.

 

My turn signal and 4 way flashers are not working.

 

I've cleaned all the related connectors and clean and tested the bulbs and sockets.

 

1) At the hazard sw connector the Bike side.

When I turn the key on, I get power to the RED wire & Tan wire.

When I use the turn signal for both turns still on the RED and TAN wires has power.

 

Now I put the Hazard wire plug into the Bike end of the Hazard plug.

 

2) On the Hazard SW side of the plug the RED & TAN wires still has power.

Inaddition the TAN/YELLOW wire now has power. Same when the Hazard SW is eithor ON or OFF. Nothing changes when I use the turn signals.

 

3) If I put the Hazard SW right in the middle of the OFF & ON, the TAN/YELLOW wire no longer has power. Just wondering what it would do.

 

My knowledge of wireing is pretty basic.

 

From this point I do not know what else to test for power.

 

Any Suggestion.

[bkuhr]

Attached is Dingy's expanded view of the wiring diagram. I might suggest take copy of file to local copy printer (KINKOS..etc) and have them print you a color copy on large (11x17) paper. It will be easier to follow along what is being talked about, and to learn how your bike is wired.

 

Next as I look at the diagram, the wire color you are calling tan is brown, or brown with colored stripes, white or yellow. The red wire should have power key on or off.

 

I think the first thing I would try, is to bypass the hazard switch. Do this by

1. Key off, remove hazard switch

2. On the bike side connector place a temparary jumper wire from Red to Brown/White.

This should apply power bike on or off direct to the turn switch, also bypassing the turn flasher

3. Now try left and right turn. The corners, L or R, should light up but not flash. If so this proves turn wiring is ok.

4. Remove above jumper and place from brown to brown/white. Turn key ON. Test turns as before. If good this proves key on circuit thru signal fuse. Turn key OFF.

5.Now remove jumper and place from brown to brown/yellow. This puts the flasher back in the circuit. Key ON, try turns again. Thay should work as before except this time flash.

 

If step 5 failed I would replace the relay assembly

If step 1-4 worked, I would suspect defective hazard switch

If something in 1-4 fails, let us know, may have wiring or turn switch issue.

[dingy]

I can still send you the 41R relay & the hazard switch to try them & see if either helps.

 

Attached is the flasher/hazard/brake lights only part of the wiring diagram. Will be easier to follow. Connectors are not shown in this view.

 

Gary

[bongobobny]

Yah! I probably have both... somewhere... if you need them and if Gary wants his back.

[GolfVenture]

Dingy: I got motivated and decided to move forward with the wires. If I need the parts I'll contact you. Mean while I've been staring at the wiring diagram for a few days now and I think I'm beginning to comprehend how to read the diagram. It has never made much sence to me before . My understand of wiring is pretty basic. 1 hot wire for power to the accessory and 1 ground wire to the frame.

 

So what the Hazard switch diagram is saying is that ....

1) In the Off position Power from the Red is passed to the Br/Y and Br wire.

2) In the On position Power from the Red is passed to the Br/Y; Dg; Br/W; Ch; Y/R

 

Then you follow the wires to the other switches and accessories. Wow giving me a migrain.

 

I'll do as bkuhr suggested tomorrow.

 

So from my light test it would seem that the flasher switch in the On position is not working correctly for if I reda the diagram correctly the Dg; Br/W; Ch; Y/R should be receiving power on the OnPoistion. Is that correct?

 

Tomorrow I'll do as bkuhr suggested and report the result.

[bkuhr]

So what the Hazard switch diagram is saying is that ....

1) In the Off position Power from the Red is passed to the Br/Y and Br wire.

2) In the On position Power from the Red is passed to the Br/Y; Dg; Br/W; Ch; Y/R

 

Brian, not quite.

1)in normal operation, hazard off, power for the turns comes from the brown wire, from the signal fuse.

2)in emergency operation, hazard on, power for the turns comes from the red wire, and both left and right turns are connected together, bypassing the actual turn switch.

 

In reading the schematic, the dark bold circles connected together indicate points, wires, that are connected in that particular switch position.

 

In your hazard switch

-In off position, only brown and brown/yellow are connected together. all other wires are not connected to anything

-In on position, red is connected to brown/yellow. separately, brown/white is connected to both dark green and chocolate. Also separately, yellow/red is connected to black(ground).

Hope this help reading schematic.

Edited August 25, 2011 by bkuhr

[dingy]

Dingy: I got motivated and decided to move forward with the wires. If I need the parts I'll contact you. Mean while I've been staring at the wiring diagram for a few days now and I think I'm beginning to comprehend how to read the diagram. It has never made much sence to me before . My understand of wiring is pretty basic. 1 hot wire for power to the accessory and 1 ground wire to the frame.

 

So what the Hazard switch diagram is saying is that ....

1) In the Off position Power from the Red is passed to the Br/Y and Br wire.

2) In the On position Power from the Red is passed to the Br/Y; Dg; Br/W; Ch; Y/R

 

Then you follow the wires to the other switches and accessories. Wow giving me a migrain.

 

I'll do as bkuhr suggested tomorrow.

 

So from my light test it would seem that the flasher switch in the On position is not working correctly for if I reda the diagram correctly the Dg; Br/W; Ch; Y/R should be receiving power on the OnPoistion. Is that correct?

 

Tomorrow I'll do as bkuhr suggested and report the result.

 

In the off position, only 1 set of contacts are closed. The Br wire feed from the keyed power source goes in the switch and out on the Br/Y wire, into the 41R(Flasher Relay Assy). Top row in the hazard switch (this is the off row)(when hazard sw. is on, the bottom row of contacts are closed where lines indicate, and the top row is opened.)

 

This then passes through the closed contact in the falser relay (in the 41R) then over to the turn signal on the Br/W wire.

 

Attached below is a description of the contact operation in the turn signal switch. It will be confusing, it was for me to write it.

 

Any mildly complex circuit such as this turn signal switch can be frustrating if you try to absorb the whole system, without first understanding how each component functions in the overall system.

 

Gary

 

Brian beat me, see his post above.

[GolfVenture]

Ok, the results are in:

 

I think the first thing I would try, is to bypass the hazard switch. Do this by

1. Key off, remove hazard switch

2. On the bike side connector place a temparary jumper wire from Red to Brown/White.

This should apply power bike on or off direct to the turn switch, also bypassing the turn flasher.

 

3. Now try left and right turn. The corners, L or R, should light up but not flash. If so this proves turn wiring is ok.

Test Sucessful

 

4. Remove above jumper and place from brown to brown/white. Turn key ON. Test turns as before. If good this proves key on circuit thru signal fuse. Turn key OFF.

Test Sucessful

 

5.Now remove jumper and place from brown to brown/yellow. This puts the flasher back in the circuit. Key ON, try turns again. Thay should work as before except this time flash.

Unsuccessful. During this test I could hear a click as I connected the jumper wire. I then held the Relay Assembly in my hand and during the test I could also feel the click.

 

If step 5 failed I would replace the relay assembly

If step 1-4 worked, I would suspect defective hazard switch

If something in 1-4 fails, let us know, may have wiring or turn switch issue.

 

So Gary, what do you want for the 41R relay? also If you have more than 1 spare of the hazard switch I like to have a spare also.

 

Do you guys have a recommended list of reasonable important parts one should carry incase of a breakdown.

 

Also I noticed that the cover of the 41R relay comes off and so is it repairable? The guts seems to be hard to remove.

 

Thank you bkuhr.

[GolfVenture]

I'm wondering if something may have causes the 41R relay to go bad. Maybe if I describe the events you or someone might have some suggestions to looking into before installing a new 41R relay.

 

I went for a short ride and in about 10 minutes I noticed that my turn signals were not working. Then I noticed that my Hi/Lo headlight dashing indicator was not working. As I got to a stop light behind a car I could not see my headlight reflection.

 

Then shortly after that in about 5 minutes I noticed that my tack was not registering

Then I noticed that the only thing on my dash that was working was the speedodometer.

 

I got to my destination (yep no leadlights Hi or Low) and looked at my glass fuses and noticed that the 2nd fuse closest to the rear was blown.

 

It was a 10 amp so I replaced it with a 10 amp. Everything worked.

 

Got everything back together and tested some more and again no turn signal and dash gages.

 

Same blown fuse. replaced it again with a 10 amp. Same out come.

 

Then Gary (Dingy) told me that that specific fuse position calls for a 20 amp per spec.

 

So I put a 20 amp in and everything worked. Except still no headlight.

 

On my way home it wasn't long before I lost the turn signal again but only the turn signals. All dash gages worked good.

 

At home I found the 2nd set of fuses that are the big push pin type and the 15 amp flasher fuse was blown. So I replaced it.

 

Tested all the fuses with a trouble light and the light, lights up for all the fuses on both ends of the fuse terminal.

 

At this point No headlights and no turn signal but everything else works fine and no longer blowing fuses.

 

So I'm wondering if the 41R relay went bad and blew the flasher 15 amp fuse and the 10amp glass fuse.

 

Or if a short somewhere blew the fuse and the 41R relay.

 

Open to some troubleshooting before putting a new 41R Relay in.

 

Oh by the way when I started to remove the turnsignal from the handle bar the headlights began to work and is still working. I throughly cleaned that turnsignal housing and all the other switches and guts right down to the last spring and ball bearing following Garys pdf file. That was an awsome set of pdfs.

[bkuhr]

Now I put the Hazard wire plug into the Bike end of the Hazard plug.

 

2) On the Hazard SW side of the plug the RED & TAN wires still has power.

Inaddition the TAN/YELLOW wire now has power. Same when the Hazard SW is eithor ON or OFF. Nothing changes when I use the turn signals.

 

During your previous test here, due to no change, I suspect you also have defective hazard switch, assuming that you mean tan/yellow did not change when switch on or off.

 

Ok, the results are in:

 

5.Now remove jumper and place from brown to brown/yellow. This puts the flasher back in the circuit. Key ON, try turns again. Thay should work as before except this time flash.

Unsuccessful. During this test I could hear a click as I connected the jumper wire. I then held the Relay Assembly in my hand and during the test I could also feel the click.

 

If step 5 failed I would replace the relay assembly

I think you have proved a defective 41r relay. Unsure if components of this relay can be repaired/replaced

 

I'm wondering if something may have causes the 41R relay to go bad. Maybe if I describe the events you or someone might have some suggestions to looking into before installing a new 41R relay.

 

The start cutout relay is also part of the 41r relay, and when pressing start button to activate cutout relay, you are also disabling the headlight circuit. Blowing the signal fuse does account for loss of dash instruments. I believe you had a bad electrical short problem to blow hazard, signal, and headlight fuses. All these systems are related to the 41r relay, and as 41r has both power and ground inputs, it is possible that defective 41r caused all your problems- but it it just a guess that nothing else is wrong.

 

Pretty sure we have proved there are no wiring problems with the turn wiring/switch.

The only other thought I have about blowing headlight, is if the start switch contacts stuck/tilted, it is possible ground would be applied to hot headlight circuit. I might suggest that you clean the contacts of the start switch same as you did with the turn and dim switches.

[sgn]

I had all kinds of dash and light problems with my 83 VR. Everytime I would check something, another problem would show up. Repeated checks gave different results. Headlight, Dash lights, turn lights, tach acting crazy, you name it I had it.

 

So after much head scratching and use of words I can not print here, I decided to look for something that was "common" to every circuit giving me trouble. Everything pointed to the CMU, so took everything out of the way and opened it up and after very close examination with magnifying glass found 2 of the four main pins had cold joints so I redid the mall and put it back in - well every thing work so I called it a night and would put it back together the next day. Next day problems every where AGAIN!

 

To sum it all up finally trace it to the black wires at CMU plug, bad connection at plug. Got that one connection good and problems all gone and have stayed gone.

 

May not be your problem but it is one more thing to check out ....

 

Good luck ...

[GolfVenture]

Just got home and found the 41R that Dingy send. I couldn't wait till morning so I went to the garage and put the relay in, put the 4 way flashers to on and the 4 way flashers worked. Turned the key on and tried the turn signals and it works also.

 

Thank you bkuhr for your trouble shooting expertise and thank you Dingy for the 41R relay.

 

Just have one last item. When cleaning the starter switch housing with all the other switches, I managed to get the throttle cable off, but getting them back on seems to be a difficult. At least I'm a bit more cautious in forcing it on than when I took it off. Most things usually comes apart easier then going back together.

 

Any suggestions?

[bkuhr]

Just got home and found the 41R that Dingy send. I couldn't wait till morning so I went to the garage and put the relay in, put the 4 way flashers to on and the 4 way flashers worked. Turned the key on and tried the turn signals and it works also.

 

Thank you bkuhr for your trouble shooting expertise and thank you Dingy for the 41R relay.

 

Just have one last item. When cleaning the starter switch housing with all the other switches, I managed to get the throttle cable off, but getting them back on seems to be a difficult. At least I'm a bit more cautious in forcing it on than when I took it off. Most things usually comes apart easier then going back together.

 

Any suggestions?

Glad we have it fixed.

As for throttle cable, I had same issue, but not sure if I remember enough of how I fiddled with it to explain to you.

I think I had to switch the cable that came loose(close cable) and start the other cable (open cable) first. Then work the close cable cable on with needle nose pliers while holding grip open .

Be sure not to crush, nick, scratch, twist or otherwise damage the cable core. Also good time for cable lube.

I think prefered method is to take cables apart at the slider box, but a pain if all the plastic is on.

Be sure to work throttle as you retighten grip to bar and align 'keyway' into bar, ensure there is no bind. One time I had 'rolled/twisted' cable core 180deg while installing, and it bound up and had to come back apart.

 

Got 3 hands?

[GolfVenture]

Cable lube? Would WD40 or Seafoam Deep Creep, or 3 in 1. Or is there a recommended product.

 

Now that cable lube is mentioned. My choke lever has always been extremely hard to move. I've only had the VR for a year. The choke lever is currently off for I also cleaned the turn signal and other switches in that housing. Earlier this year when I has a sticky carb, in the fixing process I sprayed carb cleaner all over the carb linkages. The choke level would move about 1/2 way. The choke seems to work when I need it. The choke couldn't be running part way open could it. I've rode the VR about 2000 miles and on the road the VR runs great. Doesn't miss or hesitate, gets around 35 to low 40's in mpg depending on how I ride.

[dingy]

Cable lube? Would WD40 or Seafoam Deep Creep, or 3 in 1. Or is there a recommended product.

 

Now that cable lube is mentioned. My choke lever has always been extremely hard to move. I've only had the VR for a year. The choke lever is currently off for I also cleaned the turn signal and other switches in that housing. Earlier this year when I has a sticky carb, in the fixing process I sprayed carb cleaner all over the carb linkages. The choke level would move about 1/2 way. The choke seems to work when I need it. The choke couldn't be running part way open could it. I've rode the VR about 2000 miles and on the road the VR runs great. Doesn't miss or hesitate, gets around 35 to low 40's in mpg depending on how I ride.

 

 

The WD40 may help the choke if you spray it on each enricher on the carbs, they tend to bind up.

 

For the cables, there is a nifty gadget, called something like "Cable Lubricator" Here is a picture of one on Amazon. It clamps around cable jacket on one end and cable wire on other, and with a spray can of lube, you inject it into this gizmo with one of those thin straw like tubes.

 

You would want something thicker in viscosity than WD40 though. I use a chain lube that I have.

 

Gary