identity theft

[Sideoftheroad]

Chime in here Bob if you have anything to correct or add

 

So Bob and I have a difference in opinion as to what damage someone can do to you personally in regards to identity theft when someone has information from your driver's license like name, address, DL#, & dob.

 

I agreed with Bob in that with my they can't get money out from our bank account, but I think they can do other forms of damage like take out loans, credit cards, etc...Lender says you owe money because you took out this, that and the other. You say I didn't do those things. They say prove it. Not sure if/how you could prove you didn't.

 

Thoughts?

[BradT]

Lender says you owe money because you took out this, that and the other. You say I didn't do those things. They say prove it. Not sure if/how you could prove you didn't.

 

I would say you prove that I did those things ............

 

No time to too worry about it, at all. The chances are slim but if it happened, you should be okay just requires a bunch of argueing. Well that is how I see it.

 

Brad

[flb_78]

People have been writing checks for years and all of that information is stupid easy to get through a public records search.

 

Im pretty sure that to get a loan, you have to supply a valid Social InSecurity number, you know that number that was only ever going to be used for access to an account and never as a National Identification Card?

 

So unless they can get ahold of that as well, the only way they'll be able to borrow any money is if the lender "bypasses" any requirements and then it puts the burden of proof on them that you were actually the one who borrowed the monies.

 

Also, you can put an alert on all 3 of your credit scores which will require any potential lenders to personally contact you before allowing any monies to be borrowed against your Social InSecurity number.

[Guest scarylarry]

I know this is off track, I read yesterday and man use his neighors info and tap there accounts all from facebook, he watch and wrote down the information over the course of time mother's madein name, birthdays etc.

 

With all this he was able to lift 57k of there money over a course of a yr. or so.

 

Point to this in the tech world less you share the better off you are..

[darthandy]

I'm not entirely sure of how the financial system works in the U.S. I know it's somewhat different then ours. Certainly, the U.S. rules and regulations are far more lax than in Canada...that was proven in '08 with all the enormous mortgage problems that led to many bank failures.

 

Here in Canada the financial institution would have to prove that any signatures were actually those of the borrower and proper I.D. would have to be presented. Someone might be able to use your personal info to get a loan, but it would be all but impossible for an institution to make you pay for it once you proved that you had nothing to do with the loan. A person, who is not a customer of the institution, and wants to borrow money is going to be checked out thoroughly re: proper I.D., credit reports, employment verification and reports from other lenders. Any inconsistencies will be checked out and have to be explained. If anything looks too suspicious, it might even be turned over to a police fraud unit. I worked in various positions in financial institutions for over 25 years and never saw anyone have to pay a debt for which they were not responsible. I did, however see people (Usually co-signers) get stuck with payments because they refused to understand that, as co-signers, they were as responsible for the debt as the principal borrower. When the debtor would default, the co-signer is the institution's "collateral" and will have to pay. This, however was the co-signer's fault for not taking seriously the warnings we would give them as to their personal responsibility for the debt. This is true under U.S. rules as well. If you co-sign a loan, you are as responsible for it as the principal debtor and if he defaults, you will have to pay. And if you don't, your credit rating will be negatively impacted as well as the debtor's.

 

Now when it comes to Facebook, etc., many people put far too much personal info on those sites and leave themselves open to all kinds of problems with identity theft, etc. Basically it works like this...if you wouldn't put the info on a piece of paper and nail it to a telephone downtown where everyone can see it, then you probably shouldn't put it on your Facebook page either...the result is the same...a lot of people will see it, including many who really shouldn't have access to that info. And as well, if the move is really stupid, it may look suspicious and that can lead to a whole new set of problems

 

Sorry to be so long winded, but this is a subject that is more complicated than people realize and has caused enormous problems for individuals and companies over the years.

 

Andy

[saddlebum]

I sort of remember, although not all the details about someone that had a mortgage taken out on thier house by an ID thief and they apparently had a pretty rough time trying to get out from under it.

[Guest scarylarry]

I sort of remember, although not all the details about someone that had a mortgage taken out on thier house by an ID thief and they apparently had a pretty rough time trying to get out from under it.

 

Wouldn't a 1.00 bic lighter get you out from it? :rotf:

[Mariner Fan]

Chime in here Bob if you have anything to correct or add

 

So Bob and I have a difference in opinion as to what damage someone can do to you personally in regards to identity theft when someone has information from your driver's license like name, address, DL#, & dob.

 

I agreed with Bob in that with my they can't get money out from our bank account, but I think they can do other forms of damage like take out loans, credit cards, etc...Lender says you owe money because you took out this, that and the other. You say I didn't do those things. They say prove it. Not sure if/how you could prove you didn't.

 

Thoughts?

 

Yea, I was debating with Jerry about the harm in letting a loan company have a photo copy of his license. Seems to me that there isn't much someone can do with that in terms of getting money out of your bank account. Of course there are con artists everywhere so it does pay to be careful.

I'm trying to sell a bicycle on Craigslist and I've had the usual reply's from people wanting to send me a cashiers check. The last one was a little different. He wants to pay me through Paypal and have the bike shipped to Japan. I figure his scam is to get the bike and then get Paypal to refund the money. Or something like that. Anyway, it smells fishy so I'm not biting.

[myminpins]

They can do a LOT of damage if they're really good at it. You can end up having to hire a lawyer and pay atrocious fees before it's all said and done.

 

Here in Canada, you will not be responsible for bank accounts, loans, credit card uses, etc., once you prove when the theft occurred and that you did not make the transactions. From all I've heard, that's not usually that difficult and it doesn't take too terribly long to do.

 

If they go further, though, and get a mortgage on your house or get arrested and then THEIR fingerprints are now identified as YOU (he used your identity, after all), it can get very complicated.

 

I'm not paranoid about it and I expect lenders to require proof of identification but if you're dealing with a reputable lender such as a bank, they all have privacy clauses that prevent them from using that information in any other way. It's pretty safe that way here, far as I know.

 

After all, would you lend money to someone if you had no proof of who they were?

 

I sold something through Kijiji and they paid through PayPal then I mailed the item to Ontario. I got my money (less some fees, unfortunately) and hopefully they will get their item fine. I have the proof that I mailed it so they can't go back through PayPal and get a refund because I insured it and I sent it. Paypal, also, is pretty safe though I doubt I'd send it out of country (from an ad, not eBay or something). After all, I have their name, their address, their email address, etc. They sent the money to me, I got it, it's in my bank account now so it's rock solid that way. Email money transfer is another way to send money safely these days - just requires an email address.

 

Common sense works most of the time. Some are getting way too paranoid, though, and won't pay bills using a computer, won't buy something online, etc., etc., etc.

 

I've been using eBay, paying bills online, banking online for many, many years now without ever having any trouble.

 

The one time someone used our credit card was buying gas at an old fashioned gas station. Guess the attendant copied the card somehow. One phone call and it was taken care of, I never paid it. Done.

[Sailor]

I had the same thing with my car. Some guy in England offered more than I was asking and wanted to have it shipped to England. They were fishing for personal info. I reported it to pay pal and they went after him.

I remember some incidents back east where someone stole someone elses ID and sold their house. The first they knew was when the buyer knocked on their door asking them to move out. It had all been done on line. I also heard about someone else taking out a mortgage on somebodys house. They had a hard time proving they had not done it.

[darthandy]

Watch out for these stories about fraud being committed on line. As I mentioned in my earlier posts, at some point the financial institution will want to see a live human with proper I.D. When you look into these "online theft" stories, you'll usually find one of two things happened.

1) it's all B.S. or, 2) there was more to the story and the extra made all the difference in what actually happened. However much people may complain about our banking system up here, it is quite difficult for someone to set up a situation that will force someone to pay off a debt that they did not actually incur. And there's not much chance that someone can steal your I.D. and get a mortgage online. I've yet to see an actual case of it happening in this country...a few stories, but no one has ever been able to come up with complete details, which usually indicates the probability of an "urban legend" or "old wives tale" as us old folk use to call them. And of course, when looking at any deal that seems too good to be true, you can safely assume that it isn't what it seems. The people I've met in banking over the years who were taken for a lot of money, usually failed to check all details properly because they were too excited with the possibility of making a "fast buck". For the most part, the only people who make a fast buck are the con artists...honest people usually just get to pay.

 

Andy

[myminpins]

I've yet to see an actual case of it happening in this country...a few stories, but no one has ever been able to come up with complete details, which usually indicates the probability of an "urban legend" or "old wives tale" as us old folk use to call them.

 

Exactly!! Most of the "horrendous" tales I've heard were either bogus or did not occur in this country, Canada.

[Sailor]

The stories I saw were heavily reported in the media. Notably in the Toronto Globe and Mail and in the Vancouver Province.

[darthandy]

The stories I saw were heavily reported in the media. Notably in the Toronto Globe and Mail and in the Vancouver Province.

 

Should you ever run across that info or remember a date, I would really like to have the details. I'd be very interested in knowing what happened and how it was done. Things like that are scary and it never hurts to know what can be done to avoid those situations.

 

Andy

[CrazyHorse]

Chime in here Bob if you have anything to correct or add

 

So Bob and I have a difference in opinion as to what damage someone can do to you personally in regards to identity theft when someone has information from your driver's license like name, address, DL#, & dob.

 

I agreed with Bob in that with my they can't get money out from our bank account, but I think they can do other forms of damage like take out loans, credit cards, etc...Lender says you owe money because you took out this, that and the other. You say I didn't do those things. They say prove it. Not sure if/how you could prove you didn't.

 

Thoughts?

 

Well if they have that basic info they know where you live. They now can rumage through your trash for bills, credit card statements, bank statements, pull some of your mail, fake phone call pretending to be your bank (using phone spoofing software to fake the number) since they rummaged your garbage and now have account info. Then maybe through thier questioning you slip with your ss# etc. Now they are putting pieces of the puzzle together. Heck their are people that have items sent to your house while your not home and they pick it from your mailbox or doorstep and your none the wiser.

 

Ive had my debit card comprised once my checking account once and my visa twice. Dont know how they got the info.

 

Id say a bigger worry would be large places of employment your human resources/services department people there have all the info they need to make your life hell. Plus all the health insurance companies, banks etc that have your info and scumbag employees.

Edited August 22, 2011 by CrazyHorse

[saddlebum]

I sort of remember, although not all the details about someone that had a mortgage taken out on thier house by an ID thief and they apparently had a pretty rough time trying to get out from under it.

This story occured a couple years ago and was all over the media at the time. It was actually the first time I even heard about ID theft and realized it was even possible. If I can refind the story I will post it.

[XV1100SE]

.... And there's not much chance that someone can steal your I.D. and get a mortgage online. I've yet to see an actual case of it happening in this country...

 

Not sure if it was the bank or my lawer that recommended "Title Insurance". They sell it as a safety item should someone try to steal your house. If it weren't possible... would they sell it? And we are talking lawyers and banks.

 

I'm avoiding commenting on lawers and bankers after making that statement.

[XV1100SE]

How to steal a house in the U.S. - http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2008/03/house_stealing.html

 

Mortgage fraud in Canada - info and story :

http://www.protectionpower.ca/beware-mortgage-fraud

http://www.protectionpower.ca/news#massive-mortgage-fraud-2

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/mortgage-fraud/

http://www.protectyourtitle.com/FraudFacts/PYT_FraudFacts.html

[darthandy]

Thanks Don. It was interesting (and downright scary) to read about these cases. I note that the most serious case wasn't identity theft but rather outright fraud with the banks, "normal" citizens and lawyers all "in on it". In the end, we the taxpayers are the ones that pay for this in one form or another. I note that in the one case of a phony mortgage, the judge quickly tossed the ball in the bank's court and let the innocent victims off the hook. When I was in the business, we never ran into this type of situation simply because I made sure that the deals I (Or my staff) worked on were carefully checked out and no shortcuts taken. Not surprisingly, we occasionally had people walk away from their applications when we started digging...gee, I wonder why.

 

The phony mortgage case they described could only happen because someone got greedy and decided to take shortcuts. Hopefully that person got canned (I'm tempted to drop one "n" in that word!) for their efforts. On a side note, I once lost a job heading up the financial counselling arm of a credit union (We did loans and mortgages as well as investments) because I refused to take certain shortcuts and mislead people. They said I was insubordinate...I called it being honest and ethical. Anyway, that manager lost his job a couple of months later when they caught him pulling some of the stunts I refused to pull. Of course what was left of my career was shot by then and there was no chance of taking this to court with even a slight chance of winning, so now I sell windows, doors and siding and thank god my wife has a decent pension. At least I can feel good about having prevented some good people from being ripped off by jerks like that.

 

Of course, a full retirement is just a dream now, but at least my some of my retirement funds went towards my nice red RSV. Keeps the working days a bit more cheerful!

 

Andy