Leveling links and other handling questions

[farm1810]

So I love my new bike (well new to me - 2008 RSTD) however I have the low speed heavy handling issue described here. It isn't real bad, but it does tend to want to dive to the inside on low speed turns and it is a little tough to keep straight coming up to a stop light without some wiggle room. I have checked the tire pressure, but have not checked the air in the suspension on either end. I have read that 0 PSI front and 25 PSI rear seems to be a common suggestion (along with 40PSI Front & 42 PSI Rear for tire pressure with Dunlops). I have read about changing the level links as a solution along with possibly changing the front tire to something a little narrower. Could someone explain what is going on here with the suspension and tire footprint? I get the tire pressure concept, but I don't understand how the suspension works i.e. air over shock, the level link change, and the narrow tire. Thanks very much.

[SilvrT]

There is a writeup somewhere for changing the links. I tried changing the front tire to a narrow one ... (130) and it helps for the low speed stuff but it's not so good at speed so I put the levelling links on and went back to stock front tire .... this, in my opinion, is the BEST way to go to cure/improve low speed handling as well as marked improvement in handling in the twisties.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=60704

 

If you do a search for "levelling links" you will find lots of info, including where to get them and/or make them yourself.

Edited August 18, 2011 by SilvrT

[Squidley]

Unless your inseamed challenged, I would stay away from the 130 front tire. The leveling links bring the rearend up a bit and changes the front fork geometry to give a more neutral feeling on the bike. Now I dont know how big a guy you are, but I'm right at 6ft and 300 lbs. I like a bit stiffer suspension on my bikes and I run 4lbs in the front forks and about 35 to 40 in the rear solo. You'll have to play around and see what fits your riding style best. the 150 size tire has a bit larger contact patch on the road where the 130 is not so much. Like mentioned the 130 will cause the bike to get blown around a bit more than the 150 due to less rubber in contact with the road. This can suck when your on the slab and it's windy

BTW welcome to the club

[steamer]

How long have you been riding? I'm kind of new to motorcycles, and when I went from a 900 vulcan to the Venture it seem like I was starting all over again. After watching the vidio, ride like a pro and applying what I learned, I am now able to handle the bike a lot better at low speed and at stops. Now if I can just figure out how to get it out of 1st gear.

[V7Goose]

So I love my new bike (well new to me - 2008 RSTD) however I have the low speed heavy handling issue described here. It isn't real bad, but it does tend to want to dive to the inside on low speed turns and it is a little tough to keep straight coming up to a stop light without some wiggle room. I have checked the tire pressure, but have not checked the air in the suspension on either end. I have read that 0 PSI front and 25 PSI rear seems to be a common suggestion (along with 40PSI Front & 42 PSI Rear for tire pressure with Dunlops). I have read about changing the level links as a solution along with possibly changing the front tire to something a little narrower. Could someone explain what is going on here with the suspension and tire footprint? I get the tire pressure concept, but I don't understand how the suspension works i.e. air over shock, the level link change, and the narrow tire. Thanks very much.

Looks like you have already done some searching and reading - THANK YOU! It is great to see someone trying to help themselves before asking other people to spend their time doing it (and there are an awful lot of newbies on any site that seem to think their time is worth more than ours).

 

Anyway, here are some brief comments to your questions -

 

Raising the rear of the bike reduces the trail - this makes the handling quicker and reduces the tendency for the front wheel to try to stay centered at speed (fighting your attempt to turn). It also reduces the tendency for the front wheel to try and flop over in a slow speed turn.

 

As for the difference in tire sizes, the SHAPE (profile) of the tire has a much bigger impact on the handling than the size of the tire. A more rounded shape will give a much more neutral response at any point in the lean of the bike, and it will be much less affected by road irregularities, grooves and raised edges. The 130/90 front tire makes the bike feel so much better at low speeds because it has a much more rounded profile than most 150/80 tires. But the smaller footprint makes it less stable at speed and more susceptible to frame motions when the REAR tire catches ridges or grooves on the road. IMHO you will find that a QUALITY front tire in 150/80-15, such as the Avon Venom or Dunlop E3, will provide all of the benefits that a 130/90 tire does with none of the drawbacks. Stay away from cheap garbage tires in any size - they will always handle like the garbage they are.

 

Much more detail can be found in lots of older threads. In particular, do an advanced search for posts by me that include key words of "leveling", "narrower" or "tire size".

 

Welcome to the site!

Goose

[SilvrT]

Goose... I was razzing you in my other post but just FYI, your explanations of things such as the above are, by far, the most thorough and easiest to understand of any.

 

Thanks!!

[Squidley]

Goose... I was razzing you in my other post but just FYI, your explanations of things such as the above are, by far, the most thorough and easiest to understand of any.

 

 

...he's just full of hot air...

[hig4s]

I am not inseam challenged, but I love my 130 Avon tire and find it has no down sides at freeway speeds for me. I think it just handles all around better.

I run 5psi front and 40psi rear.. This gives me a decent feel solo, but is still cushy two up.

 

Prior to the Venture I came off sport and sport touring bikes, which I'm sure many people here would consider twitchy and/or unstable at freeway speeds. to me the 130 front makes the Venture feel like a motorcycle again.

[V7Goose]

I am not inseam challenged, but I love my 130 Avon tire and find it has no down sides at freeway speeds for me. I think it just handles all around better.

I run 5psi front and 40psi rear.. This gives me a decent feel solo, but is still cushy two up.

 

Prior to the Venture I came off sport and sport touring bikes, which I'm sure many people here would consider twitchy and/or unstable at freeway speeds. to me the 130 front makes the Venture feel like a motorcycle again.

I suspect you have a typo when you say you run 5psi on the front tire? Or were you talking about suspension?

 

As far as problems with the 130/90 tire - the main issue is when the REAR tire begins to wear into a square profile - in that situation, the 130/90 front tire begins to handle like a squirrel on caffeine. This is directly related to how the square profile rear tire tries to jump surface irregularities on the road. A good brand of tire in stock size on the front handles much better with a worn rear tire on this bike.

Goose

[hig4s]

I suspect you have a typo when you say you run 5psi on the front tire? Or were you talking about suspension?

 

As far as problems with the 130/90 tire - the main issue is when the REAR tire begins to wear into a square profile - in that situation, the 130/90 front tire begins to handle like a squirrel on caffeine. This is directly related to how the square profile rear tire tries to jump surface irregularities on the road. A good brand of tire in stock size on the front handles much better with a worn rear tire on this bike.

Goose

 

Sorry, the PSI was for suspension.

[myminpins]

This is a GREAT thread. Thank you, Goose, you have a way of consolidating things that make it much easier for those of us new to this bike to understand.

 

As far as problems with the 130/90 tire - the main issue is when the REAR tire begins to wear into a square profile - in that situation, the 130/90 front tire begins to handle like a squirrel on caffeine. This is directly related to how the square profile rear tire tries to jump surface irregularities on the road. A good brand of tire in stock size on the front handles much better with a worn rear tire on this bike.

Goose

 

How worn would a back tire be when it started to affect the handling of the bike, in your opinion? I'm VERY fussy about our tires and tend to get them changed long before they are necessary to change as nothing (I can think of) is much worse than a tire blowout, especially in the front.

 

For instance, I got our tire changed on our old bike at least one season before it would have been required. It was starting to look like it had lots of miles on it but definitely still passed safety and looked in good shape.

 

I've read all the links comments here and there but, since we cannot do our own wrenching and don't know anyone who can help us in that department, I'm reluctant to trust a local shop to do such a thing plus it's cost prohibitive AND I don't think the Venture is a bike they see very often (but I could be wrong!!) (There is no LOCAL Yamaha dealer around here, just a Honda dealer that also services Yamahas)

[SilvrT]

(There is no LOCAL Yamaha dealer around here, just a Honda dealer that also services Yamahas)

 

You might be surprised at what you'll find in a non-Yamaha shop. Several years ago when I had my '85 VR (Venture Royale), I found a Suzuki dealer who employed an awesome mechanic who also had a long history of working on the older Ventures.

[myminpins]

You might be surprised at what you'll find in a non-Yamaha shop. Several years ago when I had my '85 VR (Venture Royale), I found a Suzuki dealer who employed an awesome mechanic who also had a long history of working on the older Ventures.

 

I've talked to the service guys there (about the Honda) and they were very knowledgeable and very friendly (confirming something I thought I knew go me!) but the shop itself has a bad reputation for ripping people off, not caring about customers, etc. I prefer to deal with my local bike shop who deals with all makes and models but don't know how much Venture experience they have. I'm sure I'll find out in due course, that's for sure!

[TonyLudwick]

So I love my new bike (well new to me - 2008 RSTD) however I have the low speed heavy handling issue described here. It isn't real bad, but it does tend to want to dive to the inside on low speed turns and it is a little tough to keep straight coming up to a stop light without some wiggle room. I have checked the tire pressure, but have not checked the air in the suspension on either end. I have read that 0 PSI front and 25 PSI rear seems to be a common suggestion (along with 40PSI Front & 42 PSI Rear for tire pressure with Dunlops). I have read about changing the level links as a solution along with possibly changing the front tire to something a little narrower. Could someone explain what is going on here with the suspension and tire footprint? I get the tire pressure concept, but I don't understand how the suspension works i.e. air over shock, the level link change, and the narrow tire. Thanks very much.

 

I have a 2005 RSTD and have experienced the same issues as you with how the bike handles, and also, I have a 30 inch inseam. I have also read a lot of the posts that you have read. My main priority was originally to lower the bike and I was going to get the Barons lowering kits for front and rear that would lower each by 1-1/2 inches. There were three reasons I didn't go with the Barons kits: cost, I did not like the idea of lowering the front with a method that would reduce the amount of travel in the front suspension by 1-1/2 inches(I did want to lower the front 1-1/2 inches, just not that way), I only wanted to lower the rear 1/2 inch in order to accomplish lowering the front 1 inch more than the rear to create the same effect as leveling links. For lowering the front, I preferred the method used by Venture owners on this forum involving sliding the forks up through the triple tree. This lowers the front without reducing travel in the forks. The problem is, on the RSTD, the bars are in the way of the forks, preventing you from sliding them up. The way the speedometer mounts to the bike further complicates things by making it difficult to get the bars out of the way of the forks, I was determined to lower the front the Venture way and accomplish leveling at the same time. I also needed the bike lowered more than just 1 inch.

 

So here is what i did to my RSTD. Lowered the front 1-1/2 inches by sliding the forks up through the triple tree. Bought some 3 inch risers from DZ-Custom on ebay in order to provide room for the forks to slide up. Built front and rear stilt brackets for my speedometer so that it would sit in the same position on top of the bars. Made my own rear 1/2 inch lowering kit by following the instructions on the leveling links post on this forum, only with the hole centers 7 inches apart. I did have to re-route my front brake hose slightly, but that was the only thing that I had to re-route. On top of that, I was in need of a new tire and went with a 130/90. I was nervous about changing this along with the other mods but the dealer had the 130/90 in stock but not the original size. All I can say is WOW! It is a TOTALLY different bike! The first time I rode it after these mods, I took it up to the ABATE course in the Iowa Western Community College parking lot and effortlessly did a U-Turn in "The Box" first try! I may have been able to do it with the bike unmodified if all I did was practice The Box, but I had not ever succeeded at it and it had been over a year and a half since I tried and came close. Another added bonus was the way the risers brought the bars back toward me a couple inches(no more shoulder strain). Rode up to Sturgis at 80-90 most of the way without issue. After the above mods along with my "Rick Butler" modified venture pillow top seats, I was in heaven the whole trip. The only other mods I am going to do is a Utopia backrest and a Quadzilla fairing. I also need to trim the fork skirts 1-1/2 inches as they sometimes hit when I hit a bad bump. I have some pictures but not all yet. When I get the rest of the pictures I will create a separate post on these mods. Leveling, Lowering and improving ergonomics, all in one swoop. I wish I would have done this three years ago.

[farm1810]

My story is a bit more conservative. I followed the advice you guys gave me. Inflated the front tire from 34 psi to 38 psi. Rear tire from 36 psi to 40 psi. Left the front forks with 0 psi, then inflated the rear suspension from 0 to 25 psi. Totally different motorcycle both in the parking lot and at speed. The little bit of additional stiffness in the rear makes it feel much more glued to the ground in turns, in my opinion. I'm guessing the tire pressure was the low speed wiggle problem. Thanks so much, this thing is solid as a rock for me now.

[muaymendez1]

I suspect you have a typo when you say you run 5psi on the front tire? Or were you talking about suspension?

 

As far as problems with the 130/90 tire - the main issue is when the REAR tire begins to wear into a square profile - in that situation, the 130/90 front tire begins to handle like a squirrel on caffeine. This is directly related to how the square profile rear tire tries to jump surface irregularities on the road. A good brand of tire in stock size on the front handles much better with a worn rear tire on this bike.

Goose

No way. if you run 5 psi fornt and back tires you wouldnt need a side stand.

this is how these stunt riders are able to do all these slow speed maneuvers . so if you want to stay in th parking lot 5 psi is that way to go.

[Grisolm1]

I suspect you have a typo when you say you run 5psi on the front tire? Or were you talking about suspension?

 

As far as problems with the 130/90 tire - the main issue is when the REAR tire begins to wear into a square profile - in that situation, the 130/90 front tire begins to handle like a squirrel on caffeine. This is directly related to how the square profile rear tire tries to jump surface irregularities on the road. A good brand of tire in stock size on the front handles much better with a worn rear tire on this bike.

Goose

 

 

Goose you REALLY know these machines!!! You are spot on with this comment and thank you for explaining why my RSV has gotten much more sensitive over the last month. Looks like I will be replacing my E3 rear earlier than thought and going back to a 150 front when my 130 needs replacing.

[farm1810]

This has been the most informative thread about tires, sizes, wear, suspension - just practical stuff that every rider should consider and be aware of. Thank you very much all.