Advice? Switching to V-Max cams

[pegscraper]

Any witnesses with cameras? Post some pics. Not that I don't believe it. I just want to see it anyway.

[Squidley]

Any witnesses with cameras? Post some pics. Not that I don't believe it. I just want to see it anyway.

 

I too have had my G2 front end off the ground, ever so slightly but the steering was gone for a second. It's tough to get a pic of it as it's a very quick occurance and many times done accidentally.

[Tartan Terror]

I was wondering if you had a good machine shop if you could have the heads on the G2 modified to accept the Vmax valves and springs and such. I have heard but could be wrong that the G2 cams are bigger that the Vmax cams but if out could get more fuel and air it then assuming the rest of the engine if the same then you should get more power of course raising the revs by using the DK3000 module too.

[Denden]

Any witnesses with cameras? Post some pics. Not that I don't believe it. I just want to see it anyway.

No pictures...my wife would never go for that, it is always something of a surprise. After, I always get a good hard helmet slap..."You should have warned me you were going to do that". Although on one ride out in the country with a group, I announced on the CB that I was going to nail it from a stop sign, since the road was straight and clear of driveways. (Wife saying " No,no, don't do that with me on" ). Eddie (the Shiney One) was next to me, he said I got about a foot off the ground. It's hard to tell how high while doing it. Al Bates has seen me do it a number of times.

The first time, it was sort of a mistake and surprise. I had slowed down because a car in my lane up ahead of me was making a left turn, and stopped to let traffic clear. As I got close, I downshifted to ( I thought ) 2nd, but I was in 1st gear, clutch in, coasting, slowed to about 10-20mph, the car turned out of my way, so I nailed it. Must have hit the torque peak in first gear. If my wife isn't on the back, it won't lift the wheel, but I get some rear wheel spin. I think the 17.5 pilot jets help, along with the straight thru RK mufflers...I have gobs of low end torque, and neck snapping throttle response.

I have tried the Factory Pro stage 1 jet kit recommended jetting...both front carbs 122.5 , both rear carbs 125, all 4 pilot jets #20, and factory pro needles on 2nd clip. Power was awesome thru the rev range. Gobs of low end torque, and revved fast to rev limiter, still pulling very hard. Gas mileage sucked, around 30mpg or less, it was going down fast. I had a trip coming up so I didn't leave it that way, went back to stock jetting for the trip. Then tried to come up with a compromise between power and gas mileage. I settled for 40 mpg's, with the setup I have now. Not quite as much high rev power, but low and midrange is great. I don't race all that much anymore. So I never spent the money for the Dyna ignition, to raise the rev limit.

[Denden]

I was wondering if you had a good machine shop if you could have the heads on the G2 modified to accept the Vmax valves and springs and such. I have heard but could be wrong that the G2 cams are bigger that the Vmax cams but if out could get more fuel and air it then assuming the rest of the engine if the same then you should get more power of course raising the revs by using the DK3000 module too.

I've got V-max cams I'm planning on putting in my '83 this winter. Just by looking at them, the have a longer open duration. Venture cam lobes have a narrow peak, V-max cam lobes are round, wider at the max lift area, valves stay open longer. Can't tell for sure, but I suspect they have more overlap, too. I don't think the slightly larger V-Max valves will get you much gain, and the V-Max cams are designed to work with the V-max V-Boost induction, where you have each cylinder drawing from 2 carbs in the intake stroke, at high revs. And remember the V-Max has stronger Con rods ( forged ) and higher compression forged pistons ( 10.5 to 1 ) vs. Venture cast pistons 10 to 1.

[Tartan Terror]

I've got V-max cams I'm planning on putting in my '83 this winter. Just by looking at them, the have a longer open duration. Venture cam lobes have a narrow peak, V-max cam lobes are round, wider at the max lift area, valves stay open longer. Can't tell for sure, but I suspect they have more overlap, too. I don't think the slightly larger V-Max valves will get you much gain, and the V-Max cams are designed to work with the V-max V-Boost induction, where you have each cylinder drawing from 2 carbs in the intake stroke, at high revs. And remember the V-Max has stronger Con rods ( forged ) and higher compression forged pistons ( 10.5 to 1 ) vs. Venture cast pistons 10 to 1.

so basicly depending on how much I want to spend I f I changed the pistons and rods. Put in Vmax cams and springs and maybe port the heads and also add the vboost (is this possible. I think pegscraper has it) this will be wild!!!

[pegscraper]

I wouldn't worry about the stock pistons and rods. The D3K for this bike will only allow 8000 rpms. The stock bottom end can take that much. I wouldn't spend the money on putting the V-Max valves in. They're only 1mm larger with a 1/2mm smaller stem, meaing you need new guides also. They're not enough to make the cost and effort worthwhile. If you really want larger valves, go with aftermarket larger ones. I think it's PCW who has oversize valves. They're something like 2 or 3 mm larger, which would be more worthwhile. Unless you put oversize valves in, porting the heads won't gain anything significant either. I was really impressed with the smoothness of these castings.

 

Cams/springs and bigger carbs are where you will see the most advantage. Cams and valve springs themselves are a straight swap.

 

Stock Venture cams have 206* dur. @ .050 and .303 lift.

Stock V-Max cams have .236* dur. @ .050 and .325 lift.

 

The V-Max cams are very similar to what the old XS1100s had, which did not have any V-boost. Both PCW and Webcams have larger cams than that available. One or the other or maybe both of these companies have adjustable cam gears that would let you degree the cams in and set any amount of cam advance and overlap you want.

 

Bigger cams in this engine require a modified airbox, or you're just wasting half the potential. The stock airboxes are really convoluted. Even then the engine could take more induction capability, which is why I installed the V-boost. In the 2nd gens, I'll tell you, that is a JOB. Not for the timid. It requires custom work on the intake boots and the V-boost valves themselves. Then are numerous other tiny little issues and details that have to be addressed and fiddled with to get it all finished and functional. But it can be done. Here is a pic. Just try adjusting the sync screws with this thing in the way. These carbs weren't designed with V-boost in mind. I'll tell you, this thing runs like stink. Just take all the adjectives the 1st genners use to describe how fast they think their bikes are, and then double them.

[Denden]

so basicly depending on how much I want to spend I f I changed the pistons and rods. Put in Vmax cams and springs and maybe port the heads and also add the vboost (is this possible. I think pegscraper has it) this will be wild!!!

V-Max pistons will raise the compression ration from 10:1 to 10.5:1, and since they are forged instead of cast, they are stronger. The V-Max con rods won't do anything for performance but are stronger. V-Max cams and springs will add power at higher revs. I don't know of anyone who has managed to get the V-boost to fit under a RSV gas tank. I think pegscraper is working on an early version of the Royal Star...different in a few areas from the RSV. The early Royal Star cruisers had very de-tuned V4, with no balance shaft, smaller carbs, different airbox than either the 1st gen or 2nd gen Venture.

If you could get the V-boost to fit, it raises your carbs by about 1/2 to 3/4 inch. And it is worth about 5 to 7 HP, at revs over 5000. Hard to do with the RSV airbox.

Open up the air box inlet hole, K & N air filter, free flowing exhaust ( Harley Road King mufflers with the baffles drilled out are the best bang for the buck), V-max cams and pistons (and rods for strength), and get it jetted right. Then add a Dyna ignition, play around with the spark curve, rev limit at 8000. THAT would be a screamer, and hold together pretty good. Don't count on any gas mileage. The whole trick would be getting it jetted right, getting the needles shimmed to the right hieght. There is a big difference between getting the jetting so the bike runs well, and getting "right-on". When it is "right-on", it will be impressive. But it's not easy.

If you did get the V-Boost to fit, getting the jetting right will take a LOT of trial and error. Some who have added V-Boost to 1st gens have described getting the jetting right-on, as "dancing with the devil".

[Tartan Terror]

For me its more curiosity that anything else. I would never sacrafice reliability for more power. I know that down the line I plan on the Dyna and then maybe after that we we will see. I have the roadking exhaust already and I would consider the Vmax cams of course depending on how complicated it is. If I could get 5 or 6 more horse then I would be very happy. Just for now getting away from the limiter would be nice. How much work is involved with changing the cams and Valve springs and is this something I could do myself to a benefit??

[Snarley Bill]

V-Max pistons will raise the compression ration from 10:1 to 10.5:1, and since they are forged instead of cast, they are stronger. The V-Max con rods won't do anything for performance but are stronger. V-Max cams and springs will add power at higher revs. I don't know of anyone who has managed to get the V-boost to fit under a RSV gas tank. I think pegscraper is working on an early version of the Royal Star...different in a few areas from the RSV. The early Royal Star cruisers had very de-tuned V4, with no balance shaft, smaller carbs, different airbox than either the 1st gen or 2nd gen Venture.

If you could get the V-boost to fit, it raises your carbs by about 1/2 to 3/4 inch. And it is worth about 5 to 7 HP, at revs over 5000. Hard to do with the RSV airbox.

Open up the air box inlet hole, K & N air filter, free flowing exhaust ( Harley Road King mufflers with the baffles drilled out are the best bang for the buck), V-max cams and pistons (and rods for strength), and get it jetted right. Then add a Dyna ignition, play around with the spark curve, rev limit at 8000. THAT would be a screamer, and hold together pretty good. Don't count on any gas mileage. The whole trick would be getting it jetted right, getting the needles shimmed to the right hieght. There is a big difference between getting the jetting so the bike runs well, and getting "right-on". When it is "right-on", it will be impressive. But it's not easy.

If you did get the V-Boost to fit, getting the jetting right will take a LOT of trial and error. Some who have added V-Boost to 1st gens have described getting the jetting right-on, as "dancing with the devil".

v-max pistons won't fit to small the stock rods are forged and plenty strong.the 17.5 jets are to small i drilled my stock pilot jets out .0015 thousandths, thats .001 larger than the 17.5 pilots.wanted to drill the mains out .002 but did'nt have the right size drill bit it might take .003 but i want to go a little at a time.as soon as i get the drill bit i will pull the carbs again.i believe you can pull the wheel with two people mine will almost pull the wheel on a roll-on riding solo.i think if i had a v-max rear end it would pull the wheel on a roll on.never tried it two up but i think it would on a roll on.it is definately hurting for fuel over 5000 since it is jetted for 5500 from the factory.it will use alot more air at 7200 thus it needs more fuel.i've done about all i'm going to do don't want to lose reliability and gas mileage.i did'nt mess with the metering rods because if you mike the taper on the metering rod and then move the mike up the thickness of the spacer and mike it again the difference in the diameter is miniscule.don't think it would make a noticible diference.i've got the baffles in my nasty boys moified for a wide power band and lots of lowend torque.it has much more throttle responce than stock.if i could knock off about 300 pounds it would be a bad motorscooter.

[pegscraper]

Yes, my bike is a '96 Royal Star, but it's my understanding that Ventures and newer TDs have more room under the tank than I do. You have bigger tanks and wider frames. My installing the V-boost valves didn't raise the carbs at all. There wasn't room to do that anyway. I did it all without cutting the frame or the tank. My bike is making a dyno proven 90 rear wheel hp and 106 hp at the crank. Depending on whose dyno you want to believe, that's between 11 and 18 more hp than a stock Venture. That was after adding 32mm carbs (which the rest of you already have anyway), V-Max cams, and through the stock exhaust. And that was before the V-boost. I haven't done another run yet since the V-boost.

 

I didn't use the factory's electronics to operate the V-boost valves. I have two ways I can operate them. I can set them up to open progressively as the throttle is opened, or I can set them up to open manually. At the moment I have them manual, so I can leave them open all the time, or open or close them under any operating conditions. Leaving them open all the time offers big gains all the way down to idle. Opening them up while accelerating feels like pushing a NOS button. Leaving them open at idle makes the bike sound like it has a huge cam in it. The exhaust note has quite a thump. There's nothing else on the road that sounds like a V4 with the V-boost wide open.

[Guest jdunique]

My dealer tells me that the RSTD will take out the Roadliner anyway. V-twins need at least 500cc more to even have a chance of keeping up, and they still don't. Who wants a V-twin? I like my cruiser with a sportbike engine. It makes a real sleeper. Just have to correct the factory's detuning.

 

It is a different kind of power (read: not peaky mostly torque) but my Stratoliner will run off and leave my Venture like its tied to a post!!

[Guest MANIC MECHANIC]

It is a different kind of power (read: not peaky mostly torque) but my Stratoliner will run off and leave my Venture like its tied to a post!!

They sure will!!!

[Snarley Bill]

It is a different kind of power (read: not peaky mostly torque) but my Stratoliner will run off and leave my Venture like its tied to a post!!

if it runs as good as a stock warrior it should walk on a venture bad.like racing a cadillac with an L-88 vet.i am impressed with the way my rstd runs for as heavy as it is, but i am still in the real world.ive owned alot of really fast bikes,and a venture whether it be a 1rst or 2nd gen ain't even close to being fast,and they weren't designed to be fast.if you wan't to feel what fast is all about. ride a hyabusa.10 second bikes are scary unpredictable fast.been there done that many times.my speedstar warrior is on the edge of being unpredictable,but nothing like these new crotch rockets.

[Guest MANIC MECHANIC]

If you really want to experience fast ride a 7 second alchohol drag bike! The new stratoliner will rip the stock roadstar warrior a NEW ONE! Not even close. That being said what do you think it would do to a 900 lb touring bike?

[Guest scooper]

I will be the third to say that my Strat will kill my Venture in a race. I love the V-4 line and have had three Royals and two Ventures but stock for stock the Strat will win. Now you can beef up a Royal to 130+ hp like Dan Peach did. But the same can be done to a Strat too.

By the way the Yamaha techs say the the Strat will eat a Warrior too .

Later

Scooper

[Guest MANIC MECHANIC]

Yeah, I remember in Yamaha school they told us all to go back to our dealership and ride the new Stratoliner because it was unbelievable, they were right! It is based on the warrior and not the roadstar, its basically a dressed up warrior with a big bore kit.

[Snarley Bill]

If you really want to experience fast ride a 7 second alchohol drag bike! The new stratoliner will rip the stock roadstar warrior a NEW ONE! Not even close. That being said what do you think it would do to a 900 lb touring bike?

i would have to see that to belive it.i may be wrong but i don't think it will beat a stock warrior.i'm sure the warrior would not run off and leave it but the difference in weight will cancel out the extra cubes.not to mention the warrior has a little more performance tuning.i am going to do some checking on the warrior verses stratoliner.bill

[Guest MANIC MECHANIC]

Oh, I'm telling you. I have not only ridden daily, but modified to the max the warrior engine, and the stratoliner will kill it! They gave reasons for this at yamaha classes, the stratoliner is actually a more technically advanced engine in alot of ways. I did the recall on around 35-40 of the roadstar/roadstar warriors and I can say that I pretty much consider myself an expert on those engines, you could dump one in a box and I could build the engine with my eyes closes and half a brain tied behind my back. I did little but rebuild those engines for 6 months straight every darn day. You should schedule a test ride on the new stratoliner at your local dealer asap, I know that yamaha wanted all dealers to have a demo stratoliner/roadliner for customers to ride (thats how confident they are in it).

[Snarley Bill]

Oh, I'm telling you. I have not only ridden daily, but modified to the max the warrior engine, and the stratoliner will kill it! They gave reasons for this at yamaha classes, the stratoliner is actually a more technically advanced engine in alot of ways. I did the recall on around 35-40 of the roadstar/roadstar warriors and I can say that I pretty much consider myself an expert on those engines, you could dump one in a box and I could build the engine with my eyes closes and half a brain tied behind my back. I did little but rebuild those engines for 6 months straight every darn day. You should schedule a test ride on the new stratoliner at your local dealer asap, I know that yamaha wanted all dealers to have a demo stratoliner/roadliner for customers to ride (thats how confident they are in it).

i also know the warrior inside out.i think you must think people on here are stupid.your still wet behind the ears.i was working on yamaha's before you were born.i had a cycle shop in the 60's.i've been dragracing ,done motocross,professional hillclimbing,etc.etc.hate to be so harsh but you got to get up alot earlier to bull xxxx me.

[Guest MANIC MECHANIC]

Oh, trust me at least a few of your members on here can tell you that I'm not "wet behind ANYTHING" if you believe that, then it is you who are ALL WET. It has nothing to do with who was around in what year, that has nothing to do with who is better at something. Henry ford the first was around before the current ceo of ford, that does'nt mean that his designs are better than the newer ones. Harley was around before Yamaha, that does'nt mean that Harley has a better design than Yamaha. It simply means if anything that we have learned from the mistakes of the past. Knowledge and technology will always push forward period. I have knowledge that people would'nt have dreamed of 20-30 years ago, engine technology has advanced by leaps and bounds since the 60's and 70's and if your still depending on that skill level for your own purposes then that is up to you, but spreading mis-information to an unsuspecting group of people is wrong. Also just because a person just now signed up on a message board, does'nt mean that the person has no knowledge of the subject matter, what is wrong with you? As usual every board has at least one person that is afraid of losing the postion of the "goto person" of the board, and that person always shows themselves as soon as they are threatened. We now know who those people are on this board. With the amount of mis-information and guessing that I see on this board, I would think that you should welcome someone in the business. Would you trust a surgeon that has seen a heart transplant done once or a specialist that does them everyday? thats the question you have to ask yourself.

[Tartan Terror]

i also know the warrior inside out.i think you must think people on here are stupid.your still wet behind the ears.i was working on yamaha's before you were born.i had a cycle shop in the 60's.i've been dragracing ,done motocross,professional hillclimbing,etc.etc.hate to be so harsh but you got to get up alot earlier to bull xxxx me.

 

Hey Bill, I think you got that right. His profile says still in college. I remember when I was that young I knew it all too. With experience we learn. Most of all we learn to be a little more tactful. He will learn I think.

[Guest MANIC MECHANIC]

"i also know the warrior inside out" Oh, really? care to explain the fuel injection system us? What is the push rod arrangement on the warrior and more importantly why? What design changes were made to the transmission shafts during the recall? Look, just because you own a warrior (a great bike) and it is no longer king of the hill in the Yamaha v-twin lineup, is no reason to get your ***** hurt at anyone. All I can recommend is that you ride the new stuff before you judge, of course I can clearly see that even after riding the new one, you would be the type to say that there is no difference:no-no-no: . The specs dont lie, the strat makes alot more power, that simple.

[Tartan Terror]

Mechanic-- What do you ride?

[Guest MANIC MECHANIC]

All of em' I have seven bikes at the current. lol