Advice? Switching to V-Max cams

[BadPigg]

I may have the chance to put some teeth into my 05 RSTD By changing out the valves ,cams ,timing curve and possibly changing pipes. I had been talking to the owner of a local Yammie shop who builds speed bikes for Bonneville. Cliff Gullett, Owner of Team Bozeman Motorsports has set several records himself. http://www.team-bozeman.com/custompage2.asp?pg=BonnevilleRacingTeam

 

For about $2300 he says he can get 115 hp out of my Turd De Lux. Yes thats an expensive mod so I wanted to know if anyone has had any experience doing this and if so what results? And to answer the inevitable next question ,No, its not fast enough for me. Its a great improvement over my 04 Roadie but this bikes performance flattens out after 80-90 mph. Ive already changed to K&Ns and rejetted for my altitude . But I'm looking for more mid range - top end performance.

 

Any opinions would be appreciated.

Eric

[WilCruise]

No first hand experience, but I beleive there's a bit more than a cam swap required to get the performance boost you're looking for. Can't tell you what else, and it may be accounted for in your guy's estimate, but you're doing the right thing by cheking it out first. Sounds like it could be a cool mod.

[pegscraper]

Was that 115 hp at the rear wheel or the crank? And what exactly does the $2300 buy you? If you can do the work yourself, you can put V-Max cams in the thing for a fraction of that. They go by on ebay from time to time. V-Max cams will open up the top end for you, but they aren't big enough yet to lose anything on the bottom.

 

Have you swapped in the V-Max rear gear? That will give you more acceleration all the way around.

 

I've put both V-Max cams and the V-boost valves in my bike, as well as ditched the 28mm carbs that the older Royal Stars have for the 32mm carbs that you already have. I'm creeping up on that hp level, if not there yet. I haven't done a dyno run since adding the V-boost, as I'm still ironing out the jetting. I operate the valves manually at the moment. Opening them up feels like pushing a NOS button. This engine can still use more air though. This winter I will be looking into seeing how much the carbs can be bored out.

[BadPigg]

Was that 115 hp at the rear wheel or the crank? And what exactly does the $2300 buy you? If you can do the work yourself, you can put V-Max cams in the thing for a fraction of that. They go by on ebay from time to time. V-Max cams will open up the top end for you, but they aren't big enough yet to lose anything on the bottom.

 

Have you swapped in the V-Max rear gear? That will give you more acceleration all the way around.

 

I've put both V-Max cams and the V-boost valves in my bike, as well as ditched the 28mm carbs that the older Royal Stars have for the 32mm carbs that you already have. I'm creeping up on that hp level, if not there yet. I haven't done a dyno run since adding the V-boost, as I'm still ironing out the jetting. I operate the valves manually at the moment. Opening them up feels like pushing a NOS button. This engine can still use more air though. This winter I will be looking into seeing how much the carbs can be bored out.

 

I cant recall if that was at the crank or wheel . I'm assuming at the crank. And he was not talking about a stock V-Max cam but a Hi perf. cam including re-doing the valves ,springs etc. And bumping my redline up to 7500. Is the V-Max rear a lower gearing? Also what are V-Boost cams? He's fairly well known for the Old Royal Star modifications, cant remember the specifics though.

Thanks

Eric

[Snarley Bill]

I may have the chance to put some teeth into my 05 RSTD By changing out the valves ,cams ,timing curve and possibly changing pipes. I had been talking to the owner of a local Yammie shop who builds speed bikes for Bonneville. Cliff Gullett, Owner of Team Bozeman Motorsports has set several records himself. http://www.team-bozeman.com/custompage2.asp?pg=BonnevilleRacingTeam

 

For about $2300 he says he can get 115 hp out of my Turd De Lux. Yes thats an expensive mod so I wanted to know if anyone has had any experience doing this and if so what results? And to answer the inevitable next question ,No, its not fast enough for me. Its a great improvement over my 04 Roadie but this bikes performance flattens out after 80-90 mph. Ive already changed to K&Ns and rejetted for my altitude . But I'm looking for more mid range - top end performance.

 

Any opinions would be appreciated.

Eric

the first mod you can do and will have to do if you go to v-max cams, is install a dyna 3000.this allows you to raise the rev limit.with out this you won't be able to use the power curve available with the cams.there is alot of power to be had with the stock cams.if you eliminate the rev limiter.the stock cams aren't all that bad.i'm thinking about maxxing out my rstd.with v-max heads and cams.the v-max heads have bigger ports and valves,and heavier springs to handle the 9500 red line on the max.i need to find out if the heads will bolt on to a 1300 block.try some exaust relief,dyna 3000, and a little rejetting and i think you will be surprised how much power you have on tap with your stock motor.i think mine runs pretty good for almost 900 pounds.i dusted a z car pretty good the other night,and never shifted.ran him from 30 to 75 in second gear.bill

[pegscraper]

The D3K would be necessary to raise the rev limit, or you won't see the maximum benefit from the cams. Actually the V-Max ports are the same size as what we already have. I had a set of V-Max heads once and compared them to our stock ones. The V-Max valves are 1mm larger with a 1/2mm smaller stem diameter, which isn't real significant. There are aftermarket valves available that are 2 or 3mm larger, which would make a difference. You would also have to have new guides put in the heads for the smaller stem diameter. By the time you're done that adds up to a bunch of bucks.

 

The V-Max rear gear has a little lower gear ratio. The V-Max gear ratio is 9/33, where all Ventures and Royal Stars have 10/33. It's enough to make a noticeable difference in acceleration, but not enough to do anything to gas mileage.

 

The V-boost system comes on all American V-Max bikes. Some foreign ones don't have it. It is a passage that runs between the front and rear intake boots on each side. It has a butterfly valve in it that opens up to allow any given cylinder to breathe from two carburetors. The V-boost parts fit nicely in the 1st gen Ventures. Putting them in the 2nd gens is a real project. It takes a lot of modification. On the V-Maxes, the V-boost opens automatically starting at 6000 rpms and is fully open at 8000 rpms. Some owners will modify the system to open at lower rpms than that. At the moment I have mine set up to open manually, and I generally run it open all the time once the engine warms up. The last dyno run I got was after I had swapped cams and carbs, but before the V-boost, and I was making 106 hp at the crank. With the V-boost I have to be getting close to 115 hp, and I haven't used oversize valves or larger aftermarket cams. It's all Yamaha factory stuff. Once I get the jetting ironed out I will get another dyno run.

 

Here are a couple pics of the V-boost valves.

[Snarley Bill]

The D3K would be necessary to raise the rev limit, or you won't see the maximum benefit from the cams. Actually the V-Max ports are the same size as what we already have. I had a set of V-Max heads once and compared them to our stock ones. The V-Max valves are 1mm larger with a 1/2mm smaller stem diameter, which isn't real significant. There are aftermarket valves available that are 2 or 3mm larger, which would make a difference. You would also have to have new guides put in the heads for the smaller stem diameter. By the time you're done that adds up to a bunch of bucks.

 

The V-Max rear gear has a little lower gear ratio. The V-Max gear ratio is 9/33, where all Ventures and Royal Stars have 10/33. It's enough to make a noticeable difference in acceleration, but not enough to do anything to gas mileage.

 

The V-boost system comes on all American V-Max bikes. Some foreign ones don't have it. It is a passage that runs between the front and rear intake boots on each side. It has a butterfly valve in it that opens up to allow any given cylinder to breathe from two carburetors. The V-boost parts fit nicely in the 1st gen Ventures. Putting them in the 2nd gens is a real project. It takes a lot of modification. On the V-Maxes, the V-boost opens automatically starting at 6000 rpms and is fully open at 8000 rpms. Some owners will modify the system to open at lower rpms than that. At the moment I have mine set up to open manually, and I generally run it open all the time once the engine warms up. The last dyno run I got was after I had swapped cams and carbs, but before the V-boost, and I was making 106 hp at the crank. With the V-boost I have to be getting close to 115 hp, and I haven't used oversize valves or larger aftermarket cams. It's all Yamaha factory stuff. Once I get the jetting ironed out I will get another dyno run.

 

Here are a couple pics of the V-boost valves.

thanks for the info on the heads.bill

[Guest hank]

Sounds like lot's of work. Ever though of just getting the new Roadliner?

[Snarley Bill]

Sounds like lot's of work. Ever though of just getting the new Roadliner?

now what fun would that be.bill

[pegscraper]

My dealer tells me that the RSTD will take out the Roadliner anyway. V-twins need at least 500cc more to even have a chance of keeping up, and they still don't. Who wants a V-twin? I like my cruiser with a sportbike engine. It makes a real sleeper. Just have to correct the factory's detuning.

[Guest hank]

I don't know about that. A buddy of mine has a built twin cam 95ci Harley and it's a little faster than the 05 RSTD.

[Redneck]

I don't know about that. A buddy of mine has a built twin cam 95ci Harley and it's a little faster than the 05 RSTD.

that modified 95 ci harley is 262cc biger and it is just a little faster than a 1294cc.

[pegscraper]

Exactly. It took 262 more ccs plus modifications to make it only a little faster than a stock RSTD. V-twins are the most efficient way I know of to turn gasoline into noise. I'll grant it is a cool noise. I like the way they sound going down the road by my house. But I don't like their performance. When it comes to what I want to own and ride, it's horsepower, and a pushrod V-twin just doesn't make it.

[Snarley Bill]

Exactly. It took 262 more ccs plus modifications to make it only a little faster than a stock RSTD. V-twins are the most efficient way I know of to turn gasoline into noise. I'll grant it is a cool noise. I like the way they sound going down the road by my house. But I don't like their performance. When it comes to what I want to own and ride, it's horsepower, and a pushrod V-twin just doesn't make it.

i agree. ive got a tricked out warrior with a built motor and i wish i had my v-max back.the warrior is ultra fast but it just ain't no max.my rstd gives me the best of both worlds.cruiser styling and get up and go in luxury.bill

[pegscraper]

...get up and go in luxury.

 

That's me. I'm a guy who likes to hot rod Cadillacs, and have.

 

I'd rather look bad and win, than look cool and lose. (A while back I had this phrase in my sig: Never run a bike that looks or sounds faster than it is.) And the bonus is that RSTDs don't even look bad. They look better than any HD. HD should take a few styling lessons from Yamaha. Round and square shapes on the same bike just don't go together.

[BadPigg]

Thanks for the info Pegscraper,

I think I'll start with the Dyno first. That may be enough to satisfy me. If so that'll save me a couple grand. And I agree it is a detuned sport bike engine. I remember hearing about what the first batch of V-Max bikes were doing.

 

"Too much power in the wrong hands can be dangerous- look at Oprah."

[Tommy]

Why don't you just buy my 1998 V-max and be done with it??

[BadPigg]

Why don't you just buy my 1998 V-max and be done with it??

Well I think this RSTD is a fantastic bike for me, I just want to squeeze the best possible performance out of it that I can. The V-Max doesnt suit me that well. And since I cant have my FJR for a couple of years,

I plan to make this a go-fast bike for now. You know, new bike, might as well use it.

Incidently I went for a quick ride (120miles) before a cold front came in and wanted to finaly see what my GPS would register the max speed as. While coming down a slight grade with a tail wind I hit the Rev-Limiter at 114 mph while the speedo was buried a little past 120.

 

I've already ordered the DK3!! HooHaa!!

[Squidley]

i'm thinking about maxxing out my rstd.with v-max heads and cams.the v-max heads have bigger ports and valves,and heavier springs to handle the 9500 red line on the max.i need to find out if the heads will bolt on to a 1300 block.

 

Bill,

 

1st generation Vmax heads will bolt on to the the G2 RSTD block but the exhaust ports are angled differently. Vmax is fwd strait out and the RSTD's like the G2's are angled out towards the outside of the engine. I believe that you would have to do a total custom exhaust and I dont know if there is clearance for all of that

 

I too would like to do a Vmax swap at least the rear gears, cams and a Dana, they really bogged down the G2 motor as I know what these engines are capable of

[Toolman]

I have a Max Vboost that is for sale and a Max rearend that could be sold or exchanged, The 1300 venture carbs are ther same size as the max. its just a matter of jetting. the 7500 rpm redline on the venture is low because of the low compression pistons. I have tried the Max rear on a 1300 venture and it works very well. If intrested contact me at the__toolman@hotmail.com

[helomech]

This all sounds really cool, and I'm thinking I may try it someday. I have one question though. What, exactly, is a 'Dyna 3000k'?

[Snarley Bill]

This all sounds really cool, and I'm thinking I may try it someday. I have one question though. What, exactly, is a 'Dyna 3000k'?

it modifies the stock advance curve,for more performance,and raises the rev limit.i have mine set for 7200 rpm and there is alot of hp. to be had up there.bill

[BuddyRich]

it modifies the stock advance curve,for more performance,and raises the rev limit.i have mine set for 7200 rpm and there is alot of hp. to be had up there.bill

 

Latelly I have been hittin that rev limit more and more. And the bike is just getting started. Guess I have to get one.

 

And the comment about a HD outrunnin an RSTD or RSV. When I see it I'll beleive it.

Passed a stage 3 the other day. Heard him hit the throttle wide open. Still left him in the dust. He wasn't there no more at 120 and the RSV was still pullin away. Maybe he broke it.

[Snarley Bill]

i hit the rev limiter the other day in 1rst gear on my 05 rstd at 7200 rpm and it was still pulling hard.the stock cams in these things are better than i thought,and 7200 is just loafing for this motor.i shifted my v-max at 9500.i'm running baron nasty boys and rejetted carbs with the dyna 3000 on level 3,with 7200 rev limit and k&n filters.need to pull the carbs again and open the main jets up a little.it gets a little lean after 5000 rpm.for a heavy bike ,i am impressed how good these things can run.bill

[Denden]

i hit the rev limiter the other day in 1rst gear on my 05 rstd at 7200 rpm and it was still pulling hard.the stock cams in these things are better than i thought,and 7200 is just loafing for this motor.i shifted my v-max at 9500.i'm running baron nasty boys and rejetted carbs with the dyna 3000 on level 3,with 7200 rev limit and k&n filters.need to pull the carbs again and open the main jets up a little.it gets a little lean after 5000 rpm.for a heavy bike ,i am impressed how good these things can run.bill

go up one size on the pilot jets, while you're at it ( to 17.5 ). And take a look at the air filter boxes. Yamaha actually calls them "silencers" in the parts list. The air intake is 45mm, the rubber tube that they attach to is 48mm ID. Go figure. Your intake is restricted right there. I opened up the boxes intake opening to 52mm, just to make sure. With one size larger mains all around, and one size up on the pilot jets, and RK mufflers drilled out to be straight thru. Shimmed the needles one shim. I really need a Dyna ignition, damn that rev limiter.

Don't try to get V-Max revs, though. They have heavier valve springs, forged pistons and rods, so they can take it to 9500rpm. 1st gens with cams and valve springs like the 2nd gens redline at 7500rpm,and run over that very easily. I regularly shift my '83 at 8000rpm, and it has 76k miles.

I bought the Factory Pro jet kit for my RSV, with adjustable needles. The stock needles work better. Their kit recommends doing away with the stock staggered jetting. With opened up exhaust, they call for front main jets ( #2 and #4 ) 125, rear ( #1 and #3 ) 127.5. I haven't tried it, that seems a little big on the jets, but if you open up the airbox, and with a Dyna ignition, it might work. Gas mileage will go to hell, though. With my one size up mains (stock staggering) and 17.5 pilots, I'm still getting 40mpg. And I can spin the rear wheel one-up, or get the front wheel off the ground, 2-up...with witnesses.