MikesBike Posted August 9, 2011 #26 Posted August 9, 2011 The video almost looks like the dogs have been sheared off. If so, they could be trapped between the two gears and not end up in the bottom of the transmission...
Flyinfool Posted August 9, 2011 #27 Posted August 9, 2011 I know that the ratios are a little different but would the gears from a MKI 1st gen drop in there? I just happen to have a set but it needs the 2nd gear fix to be done. But you will already be in there.
Herb In Texas Posted August 9, 2011 #28 Posted August 9, 2011 Good vid. Whoda thunk it. So when it is running you cant hear the noise. the lack of noise in you first post was what led me to think clutch. well shoot no quick fix there. gonna have to split it.
vegastruckee Posted August 10, 2011 Author #29 Posted August 10, 2011 ok so the very imaptient me went ahead and pulled the motor and split the case today. I found that the gear that engages 5th...the smaller one with the 3 posts that hook into 5th gear had 2 broken teeth. The engine pull and split was actually not that bad. I did it all by myself. Will be waiting for my dad to get into town next week to re-assemble, so that if something goes wrong I have someone to blame. LOL
Carbon_One Posted August 10, 2011 #31 Posted August 10, 2011 That bike sure is looking hurtfull now. Glad you found the cause and can now get it fixed up right. Thanks for sharing your story with us all. Larry PS: Don't forget to do that clutch up-grade when putting her back together either.
Condor Posted August 10, 2011 #32 Posted August 10, 2011 OUCH! Naked bike pics on a PG site. Oh Gawd...my eyes... my eyes!!!
Gearhead Posted August 11, 2011 #33 Posted August 11, 2011 So it broke the dogs off the gear. Weird. Wow, you're fast! Jeremy
vegastruckee Posted August 11, 2011 Author #34 Posted August 11, 2011 Yes it broke 2 of the 3 dogs off. that is why it was clunking in the video. If all 3 dogs were gone the gears would have just slipped by each other smoothly. I am the most impatient person in the world. It is killing me that I have to wait for the parts to fix this. I would work 24 hours a day until a project I start is FINISHED. its a blessing and a curse at the same time. OCD severe. If I open a 12 pack I will not stop until its gone......thus my wife only buys 6packs now LOL
Dano Posted August 11, 2011 #35 Posted August 11, 2011 That is second gear with the slots, if you get new gears make sure you replace the correlating gear on the other shaft as they should be matched. Sounds like the dogs got hung up going into 5th, as the second gear is "locked" to the shaft and 5th gear slides back and forth. Before you put them back on the shaft, you could "Undercut" the dogs and the slots to create a much better "grip" in second gear. Yamaha never did put enough travel to engage the dogs with the slots on these bikes. It only takes a couple of thousandths of the 5th gear not fully engaging to make the dogs slip (the infamous 2nd gear in the first gens). There are a couple of threads under the 1st gen tech library that can help you out, same tranny in both bikes!
vegastruckee Posted August 30, 2011 Author #36 Posted August 30, 2011 OK Latest update, I got all my parts in today from Earl (thanks a million). The family is in bed so out to the garage I go. My goal is to get the motor back together by morning, and installed by afternoon. Im very OCD and once I start I will not stop until Im done. I will keep you all posted on progress and when I get my test ride done.
vegastruckee Posted August 30, 2011 Author #37 Posted August 30, 2011 (edited) So now its 230 in the morning with not one ounce of progress... At 130 I had motor 99.9%back together and when I was going through my PILES making sure I didnt have extra parts I noticed a large washer and circlip that I had no recollection of removing. Upon further investigation they both were to be installed on the transmission shaft where I had put the new gears. UHHHHHHGGGGGGG so I cracked the case open again....mind you that I had already torqued all bolts and was calling it a night because I had no friends to help me put the motor in the frame. Once the case was apart I put the washer on and was going to put the circlip on and it slipped directly on the shaft without having to spread it. Thats not right. I inspected the clip and noticed that it was missing about half the "meat" that it should have to hold it in place. I think this is where my broken gear problem may have originated. Remembering back to start of my problem...I felt one little hicup in my tranny. Maybe this was the circlip popping loose. A few hundred miles later I felt 2 distinct pops (both dogs breaking) then no 5th gear. Well now im done for the night until morning when I can go to yamaha and pray they have a circlip. sorry for the rambling IM TIRED>>>> Edited August 30, 2011 by vegastruckee
RandyR Posted August 30, 2011 #38 Posted August 30, 2011 sounds like you're going to be the expert on doing transmissions after doing yours twice..
Zane Posted August 30, 2011 #41 Posted August 30, 2011 Can't wait for the continuing sage to unfold..... My Gawd man you are the poster child for OCD! All kiddin' aside, outstanding job, but hope it never happens to me!
Flyinfool Posted August 30, 2011 #42 Posted August 30, 2011 That pic is of a retaining ring that has been over spread and stretched out. Those tabs at the top should be almost touching. This most often happens when someone gets carried away with the snap ring pliers and over extends the ring or uses a screwdriver to pry the ring out of the groove. You want to open it just barely enough to get it over the shaft. With some luck you might even find the right ring at an auto parts store or even a good hardware store. I think I see another all niter coming.....
vegastruckee Posted August 30, 2011 Author #43 Posted August 30, 2011 Thanks guys. I agree Flyinfool I thought the same thing about that circlip, the pic doesnt really do it justice how bad it is. I never even took it off it just slid off onto the carpet I have the motor setting on. It looks overspread, worn from the inside a ton, and concave on one side and convex on the other.... Im up just made the kids spam and eggs for 2nd day of school. Trying to make it 9am so yamaha will open, should have motor back together by noon.
Flyinfool Posted August 30, 2011 #44 Posted August 30, 2011 If it was already like that, it makes you wonder if someone else has been in there for something once upon a time and stretched it out. I have never seen rings fail like that on their own.
RandyR Posted August 30, 2011 #45 Posted August 30, 2011 I'm betting Mr. Yamaha local dealer doesn't stock something like that.
Guest tx2sturgis Posted August 30, 2011 #46 Posted August 30, 2011 (edited) I'm betting Mr. Yamaha local dealer doesn't stock something like that. Unless there is something terribly unusual about that circlip/snapring/jesusclip*, it should be available at any big-box hardware store, or you can buy them in an assortment pack at harbor freight. * http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jesus%20clip Edited August 30, 2011 by tx2sturgis
vegastruckee Posted August 30, 2011 Author #47 Posted August 30, 2011 NOPE the local yamaha dealers do not stock it....None of the 3. I went ahead and ordered OEM but then took a trip to harbor freight for some snap ring pliers and found a box of circlips for 9.99 I bought them and compared one to OEM and it looks identical, well besides the stretching, ground out part and not being concave. I think Im gonna roll the dice and just use the harbor freight one and see what happens. At worse case I pull the motor again and learn a lesson.
Gearhead Posted August 30, 2011 #48 Posted August 30, 2011 I think I'd be more inclined to find one at Ace or Home Depot. The steel in HF stuff is...well...a little yuggidy. I use it sometimes, but not inside the engine. I'd wonder if it is heat treated properly. Dude, do you have a job? Just askin... Seems like you're always workin on that bike!
vegastruckee Posted August 30, 2011 Author #49 Posted August 30, 2011 Well ROUND 2 is done motor is back together with NO parts leftover or hiding anywhere. I tend to be a bit weary of HF stuff too but I pulled and twisted one of the clips apart to see how the metal reacted and it seems to be ok. Only time will tell. On a side note LOL yes I have a job Im a firefighter here in Las Vegas but you gotta have your priorities straight if your gonna enjoy life. Just saying, you only get one (life) do what makes you happy and the rest is just gravy. Ive seen to many people live to run the rat race and die before they start enjoying life....not me Im doing it all now.:cool10:
HGWT Posted August 31, 2011 #50 Posted August 31, 2011 Generally when what most call clutch slippage really isn't clutch slippage. It is the diaphram spring (what us old guys call the pressure plate) weakness. I have personally experienced this and on technitian advise replaced the friction plates and spacers with no success. After retaining the used friction plates and spacers replaced while on a trip to the 49th state. Once I got home and rested up I mic'd the friction plates and spacers to find them all on the very good acceptable limits for wear I replaced the diaphram spring with a "Barnetts spring and preesure plate" assembly I am at over 100,000 miles without so much as a wimper. Some guys even installed an extra yammy diaphram spring. I went with the Barnett. I should have done this first but, thats how we learn........doing it ourselves, as I am sure the techs would have changed the friction plates and spacers again if I had returned to the dealership for another dip in my wallet. Some like the "PCH" conversion some like the "Barnett". At the time I got the "Barnett" as no one else was in the market at that time. Recommendations? Get what you want.....the "PCH " is a few bucks cheaper, the Barnett has my vote as it has had no problems in my trike in over 100,000 miles since the install.
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