Some Great Braking Info

[Freebird]

Forwarded to me by another member. Very good stuff to know.

 

Street Strategies, David Hough

 

"..quickly reach for the front brake and squeeze progressively with all four fingers to allow the weight to transfer forward before applying maximum front brake. Simultaneously, you step down hard on the rear brake pedal, but in the the panic you push down too hard, and the rear end slides sideways in the curve. Your survival rection takes over, and your right foot lets up on the pedal. In a split second, the rear tire grabs the pavement again, snapping the year end back toward the center so violently that the bike flips. You're catapulted off the bike, which tumbles down the pavement behind you. Miraclously, you slide to a stop without getting run over, and your smart decision to wear your leathers even on a short trip pays off.

 

Deciding to do a quick stop was smart, too, and your technique to brake progressively helped prevent a front-wheel slideout. Overbraking on the rear should not have prevented you from stopping effectively, even with the rear end sliding sideways. It was your survival reaction to let up on the rear brake that caused the violent high side flip."

 

 

Ride Hard Ride Smart, Pat Hahn

 

"How many people really know how to use their brakes? Many riders avoid the front brake for fear of flipping over or locking up the front wheel and losing control. This is an uninformed and dangerous mistake. Under extreme braking on a two-wheeled motorcycle, the front brake accounts for 75-90 percent of the bike's stopping ability, and does so with mind-boggling authority. As the brake lever is squeezed, weight is transferred to the front tire, increasing traction and stopping power, which allows the rider to squeeze still further. As more weight is transferred forward, more traction is transferred forward, more traction is available, allowing the rider more braking power. As the motorcycle loses speed and the front end decompresses, the weight begins to shift back toward the rear tire, allowing the rider more grip from the back. But by now the bike's stopped, and you're in first gear, ready to scoot out of the way of the car approaching rapidly from behind.

 

You knew about that because of your mental strategy--you were aware before you made your emergency stop of who was behind you, how far back they were, and how attentive they were. That, and you could hear the screeching tires. .... Like swerving, this isn't something you read about and then execute whenever you need to. It, also needs to be learned and practiced.

 

An additional note on swerving and braking: they absolutely must be separated from one another--they cannot happen simultaneously. You can either swerve or brake, but not both at the same time. Each maneuver uses tremendous amounts of traction, and the traction available on a motorcycle is limited. When you push your motorcycle beyond that limit, the result is usually a crash. Here your mental skills again come into play: You must decide beforehand whether you will swerve or brake, or if you need to do both, when you will swerve and when you will brake, and how you will separate them to maintain control of your motorcycle."

[CrazyHorse]

In my motorcycle training we do an exercise called the brake and escape. You have one lane of cones set up that split into two lanes. You enter the cones at 40 mph and perform maximum breaking with both wheels just about to wheel lock up (not skidding) but you are also downshifting to first gear simutaneously. You are signalled to go to the right or left lane (like going around a car) now since your in first gear and your speed is low you can go around the obstacle. I've done it as high as 50 mph but beyond that you go through the cones at the end. Basically your doing your braking then you turning. Our new bikes now have ABS which I have come to like alot you cant lock these things up. You can brake in a turn but you better have a steady touch or your going down (ask me how I know) and I would probably use more rear then front. But every situation is different. I usually practice good braking every day I ride and slow speed manuvers.

Edited October 18, 2011 by CrazyHorse

[farm1810]

I am responding to an older post, I realize. I recently found myself over using the rear brake in an emergency and a part of it was my habit of using the throttle in unison with the clutch / transmission to gain smooth downshifting. I realized after my emergency this past weekend that I need to practice a bit with this bike just as this post suggests. On another similar topic, how many folks here shift / downshift while NOT using the clutch? Is this harmful?

[Gearhead]

Yes it is potentially harmful. You can do it carefully to get home if your clutch handle falls off or something breaks, but don't make a habit of it. It slams the gears together under some engine load.

 

Jeremy

[SilvrT]

I usually practice good braking every day I ride and slow speed manuvers.

 

When you live in a big city like myself, and ride in the crazy traffic, you're probably honing you braking and slow speed manuvers without realizing it. That being said, it's certainly a good idea to have "proper" technique taught to you by an expert. Many of us have 20-30-40 plus years of riding under our belt but what does that really mean? ... One year of learning bad habits and 30+ years of applying them....

 

I am on of those who has been riding for over 40 years. Never took a lesson in my life. Next year I am going to, even though I feel I have "learned" some good riding skills over those years. I have seen the Ride Like a Pro DVD... in fact, I had one .... but made the mistake of lending it to someone (my son) who then lent it to his buddy and from there it has never been seen again LOL

Edited October 17, 2011 by SilvrT

[SilvrT]

On another similar topic, how many folks here shift / downshift while NOT using the clutch? Is this harmful?

 

I often UPshift without the clutch after I'm into 2nd gear but rarely DOWNshift without the clutch. Upshifting is much easier to sync but not so on the downshift and IMO ... that (no clutch downshift) can cause tranny problems if you don't get it "just right".

[etcswjoe]

I am on of those who has been riding for over 40 years. Never took a lesson in my life. Next year I am going to, even though I feel I have "learned" some good riding skills over those years.

 

This year makrs 41 years riding for me but it seems like I am always learning what bad habits I have picked up over the years. Took the MSF course last year for the first time in many years and I really learned alot.

[mm482]

I have taken the MSF course three times and I learn new things every time. We are never too old to learn.

 

Earl

[CrazyHorse]

I recently found myself over using the rear brake in an emergency and a part of it was my habit of using the throttle in unison with the clutch / transmission to gain smooth downshifting. I realized after my emergency this past weekend that I need to practice a bit with this bike just as this post suggests. On another similar topic, how many folks here shift / downshift while NOT using the clutch? Is this harmful?

 

 

So many people do this and I think its worse on cruiser type bikes with that huge car like brake pedal as opposed to peg style bikes. Another reason I hate linked brakes they force you to over use the rear and improper braking style. Another thing about linked brakes in wet or slippery conditions in a turn I may not want the front to activate or risk going down.

 

Once in awhile I may upshift without clutch downshifting not really too hard to time.

[Rick Butler]

This is good stuff Don,

 

I am a deciple of David Hough and have (and have read) all of his books along with others who wrote on street skills. Many of you know that I only have 3 of my 9 lives left where I have learned about proper braking from the school of hard knocks and am still alive to ride another day. We are all creatures of habit, and I developed bad (rear) braking habits from the years of riding 1st gens with their linked brakes that didn't work on the 2nd gen Ventures. Especially with the forward control brake pedal that can be easily applied but can't be easily modulated. It wasn't until I totaled my bike for the 2nd time that I realized that our Ventures had too much rear brake and not enough front brake. This issue prompted me to develope my proportioning valve for the rear brake which I hope has helped many of you.

 

MSF has a great (Advanced Riding) program which I highly endorse which I have taken countless times over the years. But this only covers those skills at speeds under 35mph which doesn't exactly translate in a high speed emergency stop. I tell folks that if you ride at 80 mph, then you need to be able to come to a controlled emergency stop at 80. But this is not a very easy or comforting excercise to practice.

 

However, the best thing I have ever done to improve my riding skills was to take my bike to a begineer level track school which is usually open to all bikes, not just sport bikes. This really helped my understanding of proper braking and allowed me to practice these learned skills in 20 minute sessions on a 1.7 mile track (with no oncoming traffic to worry about). I also became very confident of what my bike was capable of in brake control, throtte control, and proper entry and exit points of a curve. I tell my friends, the best thing they can do to improve their riding skills is to take a beginner track class, where you spend 30 minutes in class, practice what you learned on the track for 20 minutes and then come back to class to learn the next skill. But, I enjoyed this so much that I became a "Track Whore" and bought a dedicated 600cc track bike to go spend the day at the track with my buddys. But the big payoff is that when I take my Venture to thrash the Arkansas Ozarks, where there are no surprises in any of the curves. I just don't worry any more about over cooking entering a curve or puckering up when I'm surprised when a curve unexpectedly tightens up.

 

Like Oprah says "Knowledge is Power" and there is nothing better than "Practice, practice, practice" to help our riding skills (to save lives).

 

Again, good topic Don,

 

Rick

[Freebird]

Thanks for the reply Rick. Yes, it is a good article. You are correct that it is much more difficult to practice higher speed emergency braking but can also be very beneficial.

 

I've got to say though...it DOES bother me a little that you are able to quote Opra.

[CrazyHorse]

This is good stuff Don,

 

I am a deciple of David Hough and have (and have read) all of his books along with others who wrote on street skills. Many of you know that I only have 3 of my 9 lives left where I have learned about proper braking from the school of hard knocks and am still alive to ride another day. We are all creatures of habit, and I developed bad (rear) braking habits from the years of riding 1st gens with their linked brakes that didn't work on the 2nd gen Ventures. Especially with the forward control brake pedal that can be easily applied but can't be easily modulated. It wasn't until I totaled my bike for the 2nd time that I realized that our Ventures had too much rear brake and not enough front brake. This issue prompted me to develope my proportioning valve for the rear brake which I hope has helped many of you.

 

MSF has a great (Advanced Riding) program which I highly endorse which I have taken countless times over the years. But this only covers those skills at speeds under 35mph which doesn't exactly translate in a high speed emergency stop. I tell folks that if you ride at 80 mph, then you need to be able to come to a controlled emergency stop at 80. But this is not a very easy or comforting excercise to practice.

 

However, the best thing I have ever done to improve my riding skills was to take my bike to a begineer level track school which is usually open to all bikes, not just sport bikes. This really helped my understanding of proper braking and allowed me to practice these learned skills in 20 minute sessions on a 1.7 mile track (with no oncoming traffic to worry about). I also became very confident of what my bike was capable of in brake control, throtte control, and proper entry and exit points of a curve. I tell my friends, the best thing they can do to improve their riding skills is to take a beginner track class, where you spend 30 minutes in class, practice what you learned on the track for 20 minutes and then come back to class to learn the next skill. But, I enjoyed this so much that I became a "Track Whore" and bought a dedicated 600cc track bike to go spend the day at the track with my buddys. But the big payoff is that when I take my Venture to thrash the Arkansas Ozarks, where there are no surprises in any of the curves. I just don't worry any more about over cooking entering a curve or puckering up when I'm surprised when a curve unexpectedly tightens up.

 

Like Oprah says "Knowledge is Power" and there is nothing better than "Practice, practice, practice" to help our riding skills (to save lives).

 

Again, good topic Don,

 

Rick

 

Good advice

[rod]

Practice is the key to braking. The MSF has the ARC that I think every one should do at least once. I have never gotten a bad review at the end of the class, every one has always learned something and braking and swerving is mentioned the most often. Keeping your brakes in good condition is also important. Rod

[FuzzyRSTD]

This is good stuff Don,

 

I am a deciple of David Hough and have (and have read) all of his books along with others who wrote on street skills. Many of you know that I only have 3 of my 9 lives left where I have learned about proper braking from the school of hard knocks and am still alive to ride another day. We are all creatures of habit, and I developed bad (rear) braking habits from the years of riding 1st gens with their linked brakes that didn't work on the 2nd gen Ventures. Especially with the forward control brake pedal that can be easily applied but can't be easily modulated. It wasn't until I totaled my bike for the 2nd time that I realized that our Ventures had too much rear brake and not enough front brake. This issue prompted me to develope my proportioning valve for the rear brake which I hope has helped many of you.

 

MSF has a great (Advanced Riding) program which I highly endorse which I have taken countless times over the years. But this only covers those skills at speeds under 35mph which doesn't exactly translate in a high speed emergency stop. I tell folks that if you ride at 80 mph, then you need to be able to come to a controlled emergency stop at 80. But this is not a very easy or comforting excercise to practice.

 

However, the best thing I have ever done to improve my riding skills was to take my bike to a begineer level track school which is usually open to all bikes, not just sport bikes. This really helped my understanding of proper braking and allowed me to practice these learned skills in 20 minute sessions on a 1.7 mile track (with no oncoming traffic to worry about). I also became very confident of what my bike was capable of in brake control, throtte control, and proper entry and exit points of a curve. I tell my friends, the best thing they can do to improve their riding skills is to take a beginner track class, where you spend 30 minutes in class, practice what you learned on the track for 20 minutes and then come back to class to learn the next skill. But, I enjoyed this so much that I became a "Track Whore" and bought a dedicated 600cc track bike to go spend the day at the track with my buddys. But the big payoff is that when I take my Venture to thrash the Arkansas Ozarks, where there are no surprises in any of the curves. I just don't worry any more about over cooking entering a curve or puckering up when I'm surprised when a curve unexpectedly tightens up.

 

Like Oprah says "Knowledge is Power" and there is nothing better than "Practice, practice, practice" to help our riding skills (to save lives).

 

Again, good topic Don,

 

Rick

 

Thanks Rick, good information.

 

Thanks for the reply Rick. Yes, it is a good article. You are correct that it is much more difficult to practice higher speed emergency braking but can also be very beneficial.

 

I've got to say though...it DOES bother me a little that you are able to quote Opra.

 

Thanks Freebird. I know I need to practice this, and I will. I have the results implanted on my rear tire from two instances that I had to really get it stoped, and most of which was done with the rear tire squalling down the black top, partially side ways, hardly no front brake applied. I am going to have to work on that. I am not a speed freak, this was at motorcycle normal speeds.

 

The rear tire has two, to the threads 3 " long worn spots. I know this is what caused these places in my tire.

 

I am going to take this advice and use it.

 

Thanks again,

Fuzzy

 

PS; I feel the same about quoting Opra.

[Yammer Dan]

More stuff to learn!! One of these days I'm just going to quit learning. When I do there will probally be plenty of volunteers for Pall Bearers. They will want to make sure I get "Planted":whistling:

[CalhounWV]

There are some great motorcycling courses out there. It never hurts to have a refresher course to remind us of the good habits we should have.

 

Thanks for posting this Don, it is a reminder of the basics that we tend to take for granted!

 

Rick.

[Rick Butler]

One other important fact pertaining to what David Hough quoted "quickly reach for the front brake and squeeze progressively with all four fingers to allow the weight to transfer forward before applying maximum front brake".

 

I learned this tip from a MSF instructor where he carried a 10mm wrench and screw driver during the class and checked all of our front brake lever adjustments. He advised us to loosen up on the lever free play so you could easily get all 4 fingers on the lever and pull it back into the handlegrip. It may feel like you have no front brake at first, but you can easily get to the lever and even pulling all the way into the grip will still allow you to lock up the front if you want to. This is especially important on front braking on big bikes like our Ventures, etc.

 

Rick

 

 

There are some great motorcycling courses out there. It never hurts to have a refresher course to remind us of the good habits we should have.

 

Thanks for posting this Don, it is a reminder of the basics that we tend to take for granted!

 

Rick.

[Preacher Dude]

I quit riding for about 20 years. Then after the kids left the house I started riding again. I took a Rider Safety Coarse. I did most stuff right but I was also doing stuff wrong. I recommend everyone go take the coarse. You will be surprised the little thing that you are doing wrong.

[saddlebum]

Ok I need new glasses I thought I read some new BAKEING info. I was getting ready to fire up the oven:bang head:

[FuzzyRSTD]

Ok I need new glasses I thought I read some new BAKEING info. I was getting ready to fire up the oven:bang head:

 

Ya, me too.......and I have my glasses on. It must have been all this holiday cooking. It has affected my eyes. Well shucks,this forum is from back in October. Oh well, it needed bumping up anyway. We always need to be aware of them bakes, I mean brakes.