Blown front tire

[Sandbagger]

I have debated over the last 2 weeks whether to write anything about this, but I realize the discussion might save someones life or prevent serious injury. Long story short- I blew a front tire on the highway going 75 miles an hour. I didn't crash and it is not because I was so skillful. I was fortunate/lucky whatever. First I heard something that sounded like the truck in front of me was having trouble with a tire. Next, my bike was sluggish with steering. Then the tire wall collapsed and I took off to the left across a lane of traffic. Honestly don't know what I did, but got it going back to the righ across another lane of traffic. Somewhere in all this I pulled the clutch and had the presence to not touch the front brake. The front wheel was violently shaking back and forth and it seemed like the front wheel was going to catch at a 45 and body slam me into the pavement in the front. It slowed down enough that I got it off the road on the inside of the highway. What would I like to accomplish with this post? 1) Educate people on what to do with a front tire blow out. I honestly don't know what to do I just know what I did. Hoping some others with better skills than I might know. 2) Understand the steps we can take to prevent the situation from happening.

I ride on Avon Venoms. A couple smart people on this site say it is the right tire and that is enough for me. This is my 2nd Venture and I bought it last year. Was riding a front tire that had adequate tread, but I don't know how old it was. This was mistake number 1. Secondly I was putting in the tire pressure posted on the tire and not the bike. So I was at 44 psi and the Venture says its front tire is 36 psi. It was 103 degrees the day I was riding. Thought we were supposed to be going by the tire and not the bike, but I am told this might not be correct. 3) The tire is a 130 instead of a 150. I asked a guy on this site who I respect about the safety of a 150 vs. a 130 if it goes flat. My reasoning is that the wheel is the same width regardless of the width of the tire. If the tire is flat I would think that a wider tire would not wobble as much. He didn't think this was a factor and I respect his opinion, but I wonder. So, let's educate each other. What is the best way to ride these blow outs out and what can we do to prevent them?

Thanks,

Bob

[Aimhigh]

As far as I'm concerned any negative situation from which you can walk away is a victory! It sounds like you did all the right things (once the tire blew)...I think the biggie was staying away from the front break...this is one of the things that concerns me about my Wing...the brakes are partially integrated, so there would be some brake applied if I were to hit the back brakes in such a situation. Tire pressure (IMHO) is VERY important...many will say to pump up the tire according to the max as listed on the sidewall...I choose (right or wrong) to follow the directions by the bike manufacturer. When we had the RSV, we had the Avons on it...much better than the stock tires...didn't have it long enough to replace the tires again...although I most likely would have put another set of Avons on it.

 

All that being said, I think there is a LOT of luck involved in such a situation. I have heard stories of situations in which the person(s) involved should have been killed...and they walked away from it. I have heard vice versa. I have come to the conclusion that when it is YOUR time...it is your time! In the meantime, though, you won't find me tempting fate!

 

Glad you are okay...hopefully this will be your only chance to pull out of such a situation!

[warriorhoneybee]

sounds like 44 psi is to high for the front.i dont have the avon on the front just the rear but i think my front says 42 cold psi and i run 40psi. on the rear avon i run between 46.5 psi solo and 48 psi two up. sure i'm glad you didn't get hurt,and as far as skill i don't know how thats factors in when it blows out and your reaction takes over.

[Sleeperhawk]

sounds like 44 psi is to high for the front.i dont have the avon on the front just the rear but i think my front says 42 cold psi and i run 40psi. on the rear avon i run between 46.5 psi solo and 48 psi two up. sure i'm glad you didn't get hurt,and as far as skill i don't know how thats factors in when it blows out and your reaction takes over.

 

Hey Warrior, went to Avon site, they have changed the specs for air pressure.

The older specs definitely used to be 50 max for rear and 42 max for the front.

Just went and looked at the front tire, it says 2.9 bars at 42 psi cold max.

 

So I do not why Avon is contradicting itself on their web site.

 

http://www.avon-tyres.co.uk/motorbike/xvz-1300-royal-star-venture-classic-tour-deluxe

 

Front tyres

Venom

Pressure front: 2.5 bar (36psi)

Front size: 150/80-16 71H

Rear tyre

Venom

Pressure rear: 2.9 bar (42psi)

Rear size: 150/90B15 80H

[MikeWa]

Just glad to hear you came through ok.

Mike

[warriorhoneybee]

thank for the info.

[warriorhoneybee]

well i don't know what the he_l to do know,guess i'll check my tire again and than punt the ball. i'll times it by 2 and than devide by one and than ad two and subtract one.

[etcswjoe]

Sandbagger,

 

Glad you are ok, blowouts are definitely scary, I have no idea what I did to get it to the side of the road it happened too fast but I was much younger back then too.

 

Hey Warrior, went to Avon site, they have changed the specs for air pressure.

The older specs definitely used to be 50 max for rear and 42 max for the front.

Just went and looked at the front tire, it says 2.9 bars at 42 psi cold max.

 

So I do not why Avon is contradicting itself on their web site.

 

http://www.avon-tyres.co.uk/motorbike/xvz-1300-royal-star-venture-classic-tour-deluxe

 

Front tyres

Venom

Pressure front: 2.5 bar (36psi)

Front size: 150/80-16 71H

Rear tyre

Venom

Pressure rear: 2.9 bar (42psi)

Rear size: 150/90B15 80H

 

When I called Avon they told me on the Venture 39 front 42 rear.

 

 

The only blowouts I ever had turned out to be external sources, such as hitting something and not realizing it till the tire blew.

[tomfromhull]

Is the load limit on the 130 less than the 150? Older tires don't take the heat good at all. And thanks for the post. Everyone likes to talk about the fun times. Talking about the scary times is different but like you said it could save someones life.

[Al Bates]

Bob what every you did was right, no mater what is said, you made it!

 

Not clear on what tire blew, was it the Avon Venoms you ride on or the tire you purchase the bike with.

 

I run the 130 Avon Venoms (front) and on the tire it states max 40 psi, that what I run 39 to 40 psi,

 

Never run tires under or over inflated, always go by whats on the tire, and in extreme heat you never know.

Edited July 18, 2011 by Al Bates

[Galapagos]

Good to hear you are OK.

[Sandbagger]

Bob what every you did was right, no mater what is said, you made it!

 

Not clear on what tire blew, was it the Avon Venoms you ride on or the tire you purchase the bike with.

 

I run the 130 Avon Venoms (front) and on the tire it states max 40 psi, that what I run 39 to 140 psi,

 

Never run tires under or over inflated, always go by whats on the tire, and in extreme heat you never know.

 

 

This is the confusing part to me. Do we go by the tire or by the bike mfg? Do you inflate to max pressure or some target under max? These are the fundamental questions that I would like to understand. I was lectured at my bike store where I bought my tires saying that bike mfg ruled the tire pressure and not the tire. After I had my blow out I got towed to a Harley dealer and got a Dunlop 408 put on. They inflated it to 36 saying that tire pressure went by the bike and not the tire rec. It was a big spready. My bike tire said 44 max (Avon) and that is what I filled to. Our Yamaha book says front tire is 36. My ignorance says more is better so I always filled to the max (I didn't fill beyond it). Would love some discussion on this point because there are so many different views. There is one person on here that I listen too intently and he has discovered his own pressure for the Avon tires on our bike, however I don't know if that is the safest pressure.

Thanks,

Bob

[Sandbagger]

Sandbagger,

 

Glad you are ok, blowouts are definitely scary, I have no idea what I did to get it to the side of the road it happened too fast but I was much younger back then too.

 

 

 

When I called Avon they told me on the Venture 39 front 42 rear.

 

 

The only blowouts I ever had turned out to be external sources, such as hitting something and not realizing it till the tire blew.

 

 

There might be a great lesson here for all of us Avon users. The pressure they are reccomending is significantly less than the max on the tires. Wonder how many guys like me that think that the Max pressure on the side is where you should be riding it. Additionally it was 103 degrees on the road.

[RandyR]

My belief is that Yamaha gives pressures for the OEM tires. Since not all tires are constructed the same, have exactly the same shape or tread pattern, or load rating, then it makes sense to me that different pressures per tire manuf is reasonable.

 

I do think running a few pounds under max pressure is the right thing to do in extreme heat.

 

I also think that the Venture when fully loaded, 2 up, with a trailer is likely to be at or over the load ratings.

[CaptainJoe]

Glad you are ok! Sounds like you handeled the situation well...

 

The one word missing in some of these replys is Max PSI COLD

The tire manfacturers have calculated taken how many lbs. your cold tire can safely hold at a specific psi. As far as the heat goes, your tire shouldn't blow unless there is an alingment problem, a foreign object involved, it's over 6 years old or just plain wore out etc....

Perhaps ECK could explain further as I believe he is an engineer. When designing something you always take into account encountering forces 2 or even three times what is listed on your product... Say you hit a 9" pothole at your max cold pressure on a 1200 lb bike(with rider)... If one had a pressure guage on the tire I'm sure it woud be way higher than the max, not to mention the "shift" in weight, due to the "load In yer pants!" Sorry... I couldn't help myself...

[frankd]

Sandbagger---I'm glad you made it to the shoulder safe and sound. That could have been very bad--you did a great job.

 

You said that the truck in front of you was having a tire problem, then your bike started to steer sluggish. Is there any possiblility that something you both ran over cut the tire real bad? THe truck having a tire problem kind of suggests that's what happened. Is there enough of the tire left to tell what happened?

 

The Avon tire for first gens. has a maximum pressure of 50#, but their web site says that on the Venture you should use 42#. That's because the weight of the front of a Venture is less than the Avon is rated for, so to keep the same footprint you use less air. I usually run mine about 44#.

 

You noticed something that we all need to be aware of. You said your bike started to steer sluggish. 7-8 years ago, I had an Avon rear that attracted a nail when it was only a couple of thousand miles old. I'd used plugs before, and I only had relatively local trips coming up, so I plugged this one also. A couple of weeks later, my wife and I were getting on an expressway and I cranked the curves pretty aggressive and then ran the bike up to speed. 30 seconds later, I noticed that the back of the bike was going back and forth a bit. THe light bulb went off right away and I gently braked and steered for the shoulder. My wife wondered why we stopped, she didn't notice anything. The plug had blown out and the tire was almost flat when we stopped. If it doesn't feel right, slow down and get on the shoulder and check things out.

 

Frank D.

[jlh3rd]

sandbagger

 

 

i use the max cold inflation pressure...any tire on any bike will be safe using tha tire manufacturer's rating......i want to mention this also since you bring up people that say the manual recommendations trump the tire manufacturers.......if you want to follow the bike manual, you'll see that the avon is not approved for the venture. nor is the E3, etc..the only tires approved are dunlop 404 and bridgestone 705/702......so.....what does someone do now if they are a bike manual follower to the letter..........i choose common sense.....also, that's from my 07 manual.........i assume your 2000 is the same, maybe not...

[Gary N.]

sandbagger

 

 

i use the max cold inflation pressure...any tire on any bike will be safe using tha tire manufacturer's rating......i want to mention this also since you bring up people that say the manual recommendations trump the tire manufacturers.......if you want to follow the bike manual, you'll see that the avon is not approved for the venture. nor is the E3, etc..the only tires approved are dunlop 404 and bridgestone 705/702......so.....what does someone do now if they are a bike manual follower to the letter..........i choose common sense.....also, that's from my 07 manual.........i assume your 2000 is the same, maybe not...

 

I agree, you can't go wrong using the tire mfg. spec. for max inflation cold.

If anything, the bike mfg. will recommend the max inflation for a particular tire that they install to make the bike ride at the most comfortable and safe level.

On motor homes, the tire mfg. recommend weighing each corner and they have a chart for max inflation for a specified weight. The inflation level printed on the tire is always for the maximum weight the tire can carry. If you don't carry that much weight, their chart will tell you how much pressure it is safe to use for the weight you carry and that will usually make the tire ride better. Of course if you overload the tire you better be looking for some different tires that can carry the load or drop some weight.

Edited July 17, 2011 by Gary N.

[V7Goose]

sandbagger

 

 

i use the max cold inflation pressure...any tire on any bike will be safe using tha tire manufacturer's rating......i want to mention this also since you bring up people that say the manual recommendations trump the tire manufacturers.......if you want to follow the bike manual, you'll see that the avon is not approved for the venture. nor is the E3, etc..the only tires approved are dunlop 404 and bridgestone 705/702......so.....what does someone do now if they are a bike manual follower to the letter..........i choose common sense.....also, that's from my 07 manual.........i assume your 2000 is the same, maybe not...

All of these statements are absolutely correct, and there is a LOT of misunderstanding about what the tire sidewall pressure means.

 

There is no requirement to run any tire at the MAX pressure stamped on the sidewall, and often this is NOT the best choice; however, ALL tires will ALWAYS be safe at the max sidewall pressure (as long as the load rating is not exceeded). Unfortunately, the best handling is very often not achieved at the max pressure, even if the tire is safe at the max pressure. The recommended tire pressures from the bike or tire manufacturers for a specific application are based on the best handling. Nothing LOWER than the RECOMMENDED pressure should ever be used, but any pressure between the RECOMMENDED and MAX pressure is safe for the tire.

 

All tires have a maximum load rating (how much weight the tire can safely carry), and that max load rating is also stamped on the sidewall. For a tire to safely carry the max load rating, it must be inflated to the max pressure, but most of us do NOT have that much weight on the bike. The Avon Venom rear tire has an 80H load/speed rating and a max pressure of 50lbs. - this is a much higher load rating than the stock tires for this machine, which means that that the Avon Venom 80H rear tire can safely carry more weight than is safe for the bike. This also means that there is virtually no situation where you ever NEED to have the max pressure in the Venom rear tire mounted on an RSV.

 

Usually, running any tire at the maximum safe pressure will give you the best fuel mileage and longest tire life (especially on a car or trike). This is one reason it is so often suggested by others to run the maximum pressure. On a two wheeled vehicle that spends a lot of time on the big highways, maximum pressure can sometimes shorten your tread life simply because the center contact patch of the rounded motorcycle tire will generally wear faster at maximum pressure.

 

In a few cases, the handling properties of a specific bike will suffer dramatically with the tire inflated to max - this is something I have personally found on the RSV with a Venom rear tire at 50lbs and the bike heavily loaded. This poor handling is not particularly noticeable in average riding, but loaded up and hitting the twisties at some speed makes if real evident. Thankfully, simply backing down the pressure just a few pounds solves that problem.

 

Goose

[rumboogy]

The plug had blown out and the tire was almost flat when we stopped. If it doesn't feel right, slow down and get on the shoulder and check things out.

Frank D.

 

First off...this is a very interesting thread. Thanks for ALL the replies and opinions.

 

Secondly...frankd, you stated that the plug probably blew out...I always worried about that and so I went to the "Stop-n-Go" brand of plugs. It is more of a "system" using a tool to insert the plug into the tire. But the plug is not your normal plug, instead it is a siliconized mushroom headed plug.

 

When you get a flat, you have a reaming tool to roughen the puncture, then you use the tool to insert the mushroomed plug into the puncture, somehow it reverses the plug so that the mushroom side of the plug is INSIDE of the tire. Once the plug is in the tire you remove the tool. Then you take a pair pliers and pull on the "tail" of the mushroomed plug until you seat the mushroomed end up against the inside of the tire. The only thing left to do is to cut off the excess plug on the outside of the tire.

 

It sounds tedious, but is about a 2 minute operation! And when I finally replaced the tire, I looked at the plug...on the inside of the tire, the mushroomed end of the plug had BONDED to the tire...which I thought was neat.

 

All that to tell you that the chances of "blowing" a plug out using this type of plug is very unlikely. Pretty cool system.

 

Here's the system I use:

http://www.stopngo.com/products/Pocket-Tire-Plugger-%252d-For-All-Tubeless-Tires.html

 

Sorry to go off track...but wanted to share this system...it works extremely well.

[Flyinfool]

The best tire pressure will most likely be none of the above.

 

The tire pressures listed in the owners manual are for the recommended tire.

If you look at the recommended tires MAX COLD pressure, it will be higher than what the owners manual recommends. The same thing occurs on most anything with tires. When you make changes from the factory equipment you are then the tester to determine the proper operating conditions.

 

By running the max pressure you will get slightly better gas mileage but are giving up traction since the tire will be harder so it will have a smaller contact patch with the road.

 

Everything is a comprise.

 

Since the weight that I am carrying on my bike is different than the weight you are carrying on your bike, even if we have the same tires, the ideal pressure will be different.

[Squidley]

Bob,

 

Glad to hear you were able to make it off safely, we weren't so lucky when our rear tire blew at 75 mph. I will add this in and hopefully not twist someones knickers. If you have a tire that is under inflated and run it in extreme heat and over loaded your asking for trouble (I'm not saying your was) The max pressure on the sidewall will give you the max weight rating if your under inflated you will dramatically loose weight rating. I always run my rear tires at max pressure so I dont "forget" to pump it back up should I take it on a trip. The front tire I usually run 2 or 3 lbs. under max pressure as there is nowhere near the max load on the front tire of any bike.

 

As stated any blowout you can walk away from is a good one, I'm glad to hear you weren't hurt

[jlh3rd]

goose

 

not to hi -jack a thread..but......what are the /your signs of bad handling on a bike with tire pressures too high.....

[V7Goose]

goose

 

not to hi -jack a thread..but......what are the /your signs of bad handling on a bike with tire pressures too high.....

The sensation I get on this bike are most evident when taking curves at a high enough speed that you really need the tires to perform well. The over-inflated tire does not flex as much and looses a bit of compliance with the road surface, and this is VERY evident if the curve has some bumps or other imperfections. The end result feels almost like a frame flex where the tale begins to wag the dog as the rear tire looses a bit of lock on the road surface.

 

There is no doubt to me that this is more an issue with the suspension, both the quality of the rear shock and how the rear compliance is in tune with the front forks, but the fact remains that the problem pretty much goes away simply by dropping a couple of lbs in the rear tire. I will also note that one time while testing a new brand of tire, I stupidly did not double check the sidewall max pressure - jut absentmindedly inflated the new tire to what I had been using. First time I had the bike loaded with that new tire, I experienced the identical problem I get with a Venom at 50lbs - turned out the tire had a lower load/max pressure and I had overinflated it. But it is interesting to note that the bike showed the same handling problems from too high rear tire pressure from more than one tire brand.

Goose

[Sandbagger]

One reply had mentioned that I heard something funny from the truck tire ahead of me. What I meant to communicate was that I heard something funny that I attributed to the truck in front of me, but it was actually the sound of my tire.

I feel extremely fortunate that I didn't go down with the violent shaking. I was only 1 up. Unfortunately I think the story would have been different with 2 up and higher center of gravity. It appears that majority of people here feel that the mfg tire company and not the bike mfg rules the tire pressure. I believe that I will be running several pounds under the max tire pressure. I should have done a post mortem on the tire. They said the valve was broken and that is all they found. I think that easily could have been caused be riding on the deflated tire so violently. One major learning for me was that if I bought a bike from someone that I would make sure that I knew how old the tires were and not just how much thread was left. I wonder if I was riding on an old tire. I have been obsessed with monitoring my tread and tire pressure, but completely disregarded the age of the tire. Hopefully my mistakes will keep someone else from making them. Ride safe.