2nd gens rear brakes

[Cutty]

Has anyone tried adjusting the rear pedal height? Could the angle applying the brake have any effect on pressure causing the rear brake lockup? Is there any better control if the front brakes are used first and than add in the rear brakes?

[Steve S]

The rear brake is sensitive for several reasons. One is if you use your front brake first the weight of your bike will shift to the front tire. This allows the rear tire to lock up easier due to having less weight on it.

 

The second one I can think of right off is we often downshift and use the rear brake at the same time. This has the same result as applyng more brake.

 

There are two rotors on the front wheel and one on the rear for a reason. Cruisers and Tour bikes are designed to be stopped by the front tire. I know we have heard of all the stories of people going over the handlebars because they used too much front brake. Trust me, this will not happen on a Venture or any other cruiser I have ever ridden. There is just too much weight on the rear end.

 

I have made some serious stops using my front brakes and I have never been able to slide the front tire. This may be due to the extra weight I carry in my front end. And I have had the rear come around some while making what I thought was gentle stops. I even had an accident in November because I alowed the rear brake to lock up while going down a hill.

 

I have not adjusted the brake pedal, but I can't imagine that it would change anything. There is a member that sells a brake attachment that prevents the pedal from being so firm. It sounds good in theory, but I have never tried one of them. After I get the bike back together I may have to though.

 

I hope I have totally confused you by now.

[Eck]

Sorry, but the "angel" of the rear brake pedal doesnt have a thing to do with how much pressure is applied or amount of fluid going to the rear caliper or rear brake pads.

[DAN STEVENSON]

Contact Rick Butler and he will explain his mod for the rear brakes. He just did mine and the mod seems to work well.

[trandeod]

My 06 Venture had a very sensitive rear brake. I've installed the TCB Valve and lowered the angle of the brake pedal and since then I haven't locked up the rear brake YET...Not saying I won't but I have a little more confidence. Like Eck and some of the rest say, the front brake is the secret, got to get on that first. I got into a bad habit of hitting the rear first on my previous bikes (Hondas) because they are linked and I seldom used the front. Never had a problem with that till I bought the Venture. Good luck.

[Monsta]

Sorry, but the "angel" of the rear brake pedal doesnt have a thing to do with how much pressure is applied

In my experience, the angle of the pedal has a profound effect on the leverage provided by your foot. I lowered mine considerably to reduce the tendency to lock.

 

Another thing is how to position your foot. In a panic stop (I practice them A LOT) where folks lock their rear wheel, I believe they must lift their heel off the floorboard when coming to a stop.This is will surely cause the rear brake to lock.

 

With my pedal lowered and making sure my heel supports the weight of my body, I cannot lock the rear brake no matter how hard I try (without lifting my heel). I can slide (locked) my front wheel for about 4 inches from 60mph and my rear wheel never locks.

 

I suppose it is technique. Remember, your heel supports your weight.

[2WHEELSFORME]

I also got spoiled by the linked brakes on my VTX. This Venture is dangerous it locks up so easy. This week I'm getting new rubber, the leveling links and a green Life Saver Valve for the rear. I now will also lower the pedal and see if I get better at not locking the rear tire.

[Guest KitCarson]

Everyone has an opinion: Here are some facts! First and most important you have to practice braking, do bear in mind most braking practice sessions are controlled sessions.....we do not want you to kill yourself. High speed braking practice is best done on a track with a full protection suit and full helmet, you can slide around the track that way and laugh about it.

 

Now you can lower the angle of the brake pedal, mount it upside down, put it on sideways, this has no bearing on how the rear brake works other than yes it will give you longer fulcrum from the actual swivel bracket on the brake and in effect actually increases the power applied to the pedal, not raising your heel....sounds good........in a real panic stop and with that car coming up fast, what are you going to do first instinct? You are going to stomp that brake pedal, I do!! At first, then let off when I hear the rear tire squall, but that time I have it under control with the front brake anyway. I do have that happen occasionally, some car will wait till I am about 20 feet from them and look right at me and pull out......hey I am already slowed down and in third gear......I was expecting it.

 

That TCB thing............on the rear brake.........did not one thing for me........just wasted time and brake fluid.

 

Rick Butlers brake mod did the trick for me.......this also will not prevent rear brake lock up........I can assure you with both the Butler mod and TCB in place together.....and my heel planted on the floor board, I can slide Crickett across the parking lot.....these are not BMW brake systems.

 

What Ricks device does is limit the instant and initial volume of brake fluid to the rear calipers....you know when you first get that adrenalin attack!! It does if you practice with it, become aware of it.....train yourself......give you a second to get control of your excitement and allows you to conduct a controlled braking........yep it takes practice, there is no magic cure..........just practice. Respectfully Kit

[Orrin]

Brothers, listen up! Kit and Rick are telling you straight. I have followed their posts for some time on this subject and have personal experience of what can go wrong. Too bad these guys are not designing brake systems for Mama Yamaha.

[KiteSquid]

I suppose it is technique.

 

 

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BoomerCPO]

Technique and PRACTICE!

[KiteSquid]

.......in a real panic stop and with that car coming up fast, what are you going to do first instinct? You are going to stomp that brake pedal, I do!!

 

Actually you will do what you have practiced.

 

If you have not practiced enough, you will probably do the wrong thing.

 

 

I try to practice quick stops as often as possible, so when the time comes to quickly stop my bike, it wont become a panic stop...

 

I recomend that all riders attend a Motorcycle Safety Course at LEAST annualy!!!!!!!!

[Monsta]

Now you can lower the angle of the brake pedal, mount it upside down, put it on sideways, this has no bearing on how the rear brake works other than yes it will give you longer fulcrum from the actual swivel bracket on the brake and in effect actually increases the power applied to the pedal, not raising your heel....sounds good........in a real panic stop and with that car coming up fast, what are you going to do first instinct? You are going to stomp that brake pedal, I do!!

 

The internet is a dangerous place... the old adage of "buyer beware" also stands true here. "READER beware!"

 

The quote is such BS that it should be removed...

[flb_78]

My brake locks up fairly easy, but I'm sued to it already. I also use the rear brake A LOT!!! In fact, I use it way to much. I went through my first set of rear brakes in about 7000 miles. It's all in the technique.

[Guest KitCarson]

The internet is a dangerous place... the old adage of "buyer beware" also stands true here. "READER beware!"

 

The quote is such BS that it should be removed...

Okay, what is this stuff about me being full of bovine excretion? I will have you know I have worked hard to earn this title.....please be careful of who you let know about this!!:rotfl:. Honestly........I have done a lot of playing with the brakes on this machine, I really do not think the angle of the brake pedal has anything to do with anything. Trying to keep your heel down on the foot platform in a panic stop.....are you going to do this......I hope we all could learn to to this........thing is I do not think I can.....I can go to a parking lot and practice for a few minutes twice a month, which I do, and I have learned that by doing so, my first reaction when a car does pull out in front of me is to use the front brake........it has been years since I have really had to do a full blown adrenalin lockdown for real. Hopefully by being observant and a defensive rider I never will have to kiss a windshield. But in a for real situation..........I do know for a fact, ones first instinct is to stomp that rear brake.......it is only natural.....it is what happens.

 

Bottom line is and I said nothing about it .....we even linked the rear caliper to the front right caliper and put the front left caliper to the front lever one day.......saw this on the Venturers site........to me I simply could now not stop at all.....so have played with the brakes..........So far the only thing that has helped me at all is the Rick Butler proportioning valve......and to personal prefererance you can set this very soft......some riders do not even like ABS brakes.......they prefer to practice and know their machine and actually stop faster. The butler device does help, and is worth your time and effort.

 

Okay let me shut up........I think the main point is to take your bike and go practice with your brakes. Actually go do this. Ignore all the stuff you hear about well........my brother in law said..........his friend had to lay his bike down.............it was unavoidable.....had to lay it down......

 

Go practice........go take an advanced rider course......most local universities have these courses usually in the fall.........they will teach you proper braking.......how to counter steer..........you will leave with the confidence to ignore hearsay and go practice a bit once in awhile on your own. Respectfully.......Kit

[Denden]

But in a for real situation..........I do know for a fact, ones first instinct is to stomp that rear brake.......it is only natural.....it is what happens...

Respectfully.......Kit

I don't want to be nit-picky, but I disagree with this part of your post. "It is only natural"...no it isn't. It isn't natural to me, or my son, or anyone who has learned to use their motorcycle brakes properly. EVERY braking situation, whether just gently slowing down, or full out emergency, I use both brakes. I practice emergency stops. Every stop, I ease on the rear brake a split second before squeezing the front brake. You can develope a rythym to it. I have learned to modulate both brakes, got a feel for them thru practice, if I feel a wheel start to lock-up, I can ease off just enough to avoid the skid. The idea of avoiding using the front brake because someone told you something ridiculous decades ago...just ridiculous. There are 2 big disc brakes on the front of your bike for a reason. Weight transfer in a braking situation shifts most of the weight of the bike to the front wheel. On a bike like the RSV, 80% to 90% of the braking power is on the front wheel...no matter what speed. Weight transfer on the front wheel equals more traction, and less traction on the rear wheel. To be a truly safe rider, you must learn to use the brakes the way they were designed to be used.

But you are right, take MSF riders course, and practice a lot, until it is instictive to brake properly when that time comes that you don't have time to think about it, you just react. your reaction will be the right one, if you use your brakes properly all the time.

OK, I just re-read this post, and it sounds kind of "preachy". Sorry about that...But I think it is important to get this point across. This is the braking technique that you will learn in any MSF course, or any racing school.

I have talked to other Ventureriders about this privately. More than a few of us have agreed that it is about time to have a "brake school"...or at least a discussion on proper braking techique, for all Ventureriders. Too many "single vehicle" accidents happen because of slamming on the rear brake. It's not the bike's fault, it is the riders fault. In the aviation industry it is referred to as "pilot error", when a crash is investigated and it is found that the cause of the crash was nothing other than the pilot doing the wrong thing at a critical time.

I have seen this happen more than enough times to suit me, being first on the scene, helping someone who locked up the rear wheel, and went down. And then says "I had to lay it down...(for whatever reason)". No, you didn't have to lay it down, you screwed up. I really think it comes down this...if you can't use your motorcycle brakes properly, you are a danger to yourself and to other on the road...maybe it's time to find another pastime, sell the bike. Or at least get a bike with ABS and let modern electronics keep you from screwing up and hurting yourself.

[royalstarjac]

Repeat after me: Front brake, front brake, front brake.....

[2WHEELSFORME]

Yes practice, that is important. But I've rode and owned serveral bikes including two Ventures and these bikes are the worst I've ever seen for touchy rear brakes. Knowing the bike and the proper brakeing procedure can overcome the problem but it should not be that way. I can also assure Kit that I can adjust his brake lever where he can not stomp on it if he truley thinks that the lever can not be adjusted so that it makes a differance.

[Guest KitCarson]

Hi Everyone: I just read Dendens post.........I agree with everything he has said......and it all comes with practice.......I suppose what I have been trying to say, is it is natural for someone to stomp on the rear brake and improperly lock it up, they do not know that they can skid the rear and let off and skid it again if they have to, they panic and push harder.

 

Okay going to shut up now....trying to explain all this stuff on the internet thing is not working real well........I leave things unsaid......figure folks can read my mind..........but I do agree to the fact if you panic and lock the rear wheel and crash because of it.......it is your fault.......A good advanced rider school in your area is worth your life, you will leave that school with the confidence to use your brakes.....know what they will do, and not get a dangerous surprise the day you need them. Years ago I had several bad crashes.......and due to bad training, and hearsay and old school nonsense, I stomped on the rear brakes......locked them up and in one case high sided. Today the rear brake is the last thing I use, and I modulate it with the front........Denden just seems to be able to say it better. Kit

[Guest KitCarson]

Yes practice, that is important. But I've rode and owned serveral bikes including two Ventures and these bikes are the worst I've ever seen for touchy rear brakes. Knowing the bike and the proper brakeing procedure can overcome the problem but it should not be that way. I can also assure Kit that I can adjust his brake lever where he can not stomp on it if he truley thinks that the lever can not be adjusted so that it makes a differance.

I guess I just dis missed the whole idea of adjusting the brake pedal.....some bikes have a flat pedal.......my sons crotch rocket that I fire up once a week and ride to the store has the flat pedal off the foot peg. I have no concern or wish to adjust my brake pedal........I like it up high and where it is, there are times when you do want full power of the rear brake........the main thing is to learn to use brakes properly.......front and rear. The butler mod on the back brake is simply a tool that does allow you great control of the rear brake, and I have already said you have to practice with it......it is not a magic cure. I have the TCB device on the front brakes........is it any real help? To me it is as I have practiced with it,

 

I have no concerns with this Venture and the brakes at this point, I have spent quite a bit of time in actual practice with it. I am confident in myself and the machines ability to stop and even steer it around a vehicle and brake in a curve. I was trying to help those who might not have the riding experience to understand , these things we have done are great, they are just one more tool to help you develop a controlled systematic way to use the brakes properly. But they will never replace experience and practice.......and honestly I think this subject will never be gained to any advantage on this internet stuff.........a good school for all of us would be a big help........not sure just how to do this with folks all over the world......so it will be up to each person to go to a local school learn to use the brakes.

Folks when you learn to use the brakes properly, and gain confidence in them, they do work great. They are a credit to the drum brakes we use to have........you can learn with practice to know exactly when that wheel is going to lock up.....and if you push it a little hard and skid it a bit. Okay just let off...little....skids will not hurt you........lock up will.

[Monsta]

. Honestly........I have done a lot of playing with the brakes on this machine, I really do not think the angle of the brake pedal has anything to do with anything.

I don't think you played with it enough. There are two different adjustments. You can really limit the travel on the pedal as well as the plunger to the MC it actuates.

 

I think I'll make a video about it to help explain it in more detail.

 

Maybe you should make a video of this --> "I can assure you with both the Butler mod and TCB in place together.....and my heel planted on the floor board, I can slide Crickett across the parking lot."

[Guest KitCarson]

I don't think you played with it enough. There are two different adjustments. You can really limit the travel on the pedal as well as the plunger to the MC it actuates.

 

I think I'll make a video about it to help explain it in more detail.

 

Maybe you should make a video of this --> "I can assure you with both the Butler mod and TCB in place together.....and my heel planted on the floor board, I can slide Crickett across the parking lot."

Well Ken....somewhere on this forum is a thread called Rick Butlers Brake Mod and the TCB. Nope no video, I have just only leaned to use the camera and size the photos. But this does show the brake mode and the TCB devices installed.

Now on a constructive note........if anyone reading this has a good idea on how to make video work as an instructive tool, and apply it to real life, I will volunteer to do this. There are several taped instructive things out there already, showing how to apply the rear brake first and bring the front ones into play......using the front brake for the majority of the braking. How this could be done with out doing it? With out hands on practice?

I can certainly make a video of proper braking.......but would it serve any purpose.....can anyone learn without doing it themselves? I really do not think so.

I can also make one of the rear tire sliding and smoke coming off it......that is not instructive that is called clowning around!.

 

I am sorry I laughed at your brake pedal adjustment.....it may make some people reach further......I just went out and sat on the bike and thought about it........if one has shorter legs....it would cause you to have to work harder to push the pedal........makes you flex your ankle further up to do any contact with the pedal.........maybe.........could be......

 

Anyway I am out of this one........gone........I am serious about anything constructive about proper braking...but have thought about that all afternoon........I think the only way is hands on. Kit