Condor Posted December 7, 2007 Share #1 Posted December 7, 2007 OK, I've never replaced a pan gasket before, so I thought I'd ask the experts. After getting the exhaust and collector out of the way can I drop the pan, or am I just starting. Man.... I hope I don't have to pull the motor..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeS Posted December 7, 2007 Share #2 Posted December 7, 2007 I guess I missed the reason for this job. Why are you pulling the pan off ?? Just curious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted December 7, 2007 Author Share #3 Posted December 7, 2007 Hey George. The new2me '91 I just picked up has an oil leak right above the collector on the left side. Get's a little smoky when things start to warm up. I haven't really poked around to actually locate the leak yet, and it might just be in the stator/wire plug area, but I thought I'd cover all the bases before I start to look. Hey....it's winter... Heard you got a little rain up there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeS Posted December 7, 2007 Share #4 Posted December 7, 2007 I thought you were going to start selling off the 1st Gens, and get a 2nd Gen !! ????? Mine leaks at the Stator wires, but I gave up on fixing it. Not that bad of a leak, anyway, leak brings back fond memories of my 47 Harley !! Rain no problem for me, I'm 300 feet above the nearest River !! I made sure of that before I bought my house here. Thers a river every 10 miles, so you have to be carefull if you want to buy Real Estate in the Seattle area. The fools are still building new houses, 50 feet from the river banks!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket Posted December 7, 2007 Share #5 Posted December 7, 2007 Hey George. The new2me '91 I just picked up has an oil leak right above the collector on the left side. Get's a little smoky when things start to warm up. I haven't really poked around to actually locate the leak yet, and it might just be in the stator/wire plug area, but I thought I'd cover all the bases before I start to look. Hey....it's winter... Heard you got a little rain up there... Possible engine casing shifter shaft seal (the inner shaft, not the stator cover mounted one), they have been known to leak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeS Posted December 7, 2007 Share #6 Posted December 7, 2007 Thanks for the Info. I did not know that. Probably where mine is leaking. I will check into that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86er Posted December 7, 2007 Share #7 Posted December 7, 2007 Mine was leaking onto the collector on the left side from the clutch slave cylinder shaft seal. I was going thru about a half a quart a day on my 8k mile trip! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venturous Randy Posted December 7, 2007 Share #8 Posted December 7, 2007 Condor, I believe the pan can be pulled without pulling the engine. Both Rocket and 86er made good points on oil leaks. I ended up replacing both the seal behind the clutch master cylinder and the shifter seal where it goes into the engine. If you do decide to pull the pan, make sure you take a good look at the orange o-rings that are on the oil manifold plumbing. The tube that goes toward the oil filter housing has been known to be blown out or broken and this can have a big impact on oil pressure. RandyA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Posted December 7, 2007 Share #9 Posted December 7, 2007 i am glad you ask that ? i am pulling my pan sun. to install that o-ring , but i cheated i got the hole oil tube assm. only 67buck plus shipping , it has the new tube for the orange o-ring and all the rest of the o-rings . plus i got a new damper , condor if your goning to pull the pan with all the work go ahead and change the o-ring , i am going to try to do it sun. if my hangover is not to bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted December 7, 2007 Author Share #10 Posted December 7, 2007 Thanks for the info Guys. Let me know how it goes Thom..... I love it when someone else leads the way:).... If I do need to pull the pan I'll probably go the new everthing route too. Might as well do it all, while I'm in there. I probably would have let the leak ride if it just marked it's spot, but the leak is right over the collector and smokes up a storm. I'll check the shifter seals. Good info. The PO did a lot of 'go-fast' experiments, and he apparently wasn't a member of this board. When I took a look at the K&N air filter I found the Air Box lid so full of holes it would have done a swiss cheese maker proud. Replaced it with a stock lid and it sure ran a lot better. I wonder if he got around to installing Progressives, it has a Super Brace??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denden Posted December 7, 2007 Share #11 Posted December 7, 2007 If it's the shifter shaft seal, replaced mine ('83) without removing the oil pan. I removed the shifter shaft after pulling the clutch basket (the shaft has to come out the right side), then used a screwdriver to pop out the old seal. That seal is right above the collector, so you have to remove the collector, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86er Posted December 7, 2007 Share #12 Posted December 7, 2007 Jack, just a little experience to hopefully save you from making the same dumb mistake I made! To find my oil leak I pulled the pipes and collector off and ran the engine up to see where the oil was coming from. Once I found it I shut the bike off and stuck rags in the exhaust ports to keep things from cooling to fast. After I changed the shift rod oil seal, I fired it up again to make sure the leak was gone. All that being done, I started putting things back together. That's when I found my mistake.......I had melted the lower left fairing piece where the cross piece mounts!!! I had to take a heat gun and remelt it to fit back together. It is still bubbled. Moral of the story:confused07:.......Make sure you take the lowers off if you run the bike without the exhaust on it!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86er Posted December 7, 2007 Share #13 Posted December 7, 2007 If it's the shifter shaft seal, replaced mine ('83) without removing the oil pan. I removed the shifter shaft after pulling the clutch basket (the shaft has to come out the right side), then used a screwdriver to pop out the old seal. That seal is right above the collector, so you have to remove the collector, too. I did my oil seal from the left side with the clutch in. The push rod is smooth and comes out easily. I don't know about the '83, but the on the '86 I don't think that seal would go in from the right side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted December 7, 2007 Author Share #14 Posted December 7, 2007 I did my oil seal from the left side with the clutch in. The push rod is smooth and comes out easily. I don't know about the '83, but the on the '86 I don't think that seal would go in from the right side. Great story Todd.... I'll have to remember that about the exhaust... I think your saying that you pulled the slave to replace the seal, and could get the rod out the left side?? I've done a couple of slaves and didn't know the rod would clear the left side. Heck I didn't even know there was a seal in the block, and thought the oil seal was actually handled by the one in the slave... I guess it's only a dust seal. Shows you what I know.... What did you use to remove the old seal? BTW this is on the '91... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket Posted December 7, 2007 Share #15 Posted December 7, 2007 If it's the shifter shaft seal, replaced mine ('83) without removing the oil pan. I removed the shifter shaft after pulling the clutch basket (the shaft has to come out the right side), then used a screwdriver to pop out the old seal. That seal is right above the collector, so you have to remove the collector, too. Why did you pull the shaft?? I just removed the external shift linkage, connecting to stator cover relay setup, to replace mine. Best bet Condor, check the manual. as there will be all kinds of discussion & it could take a while....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted December 7, 2007 Author Share #16 Posted December 7, 2007 Why did you pull the shaft?? I just removed the external shift linkage, connecting to stator cover relay setup, to replace mine. Best bet Condor, check the manual. as there will be all kinds of discussion & it could take a while....... I've got time on my hands Paul. Biz sucks!! I think we have two different seals being discussed here. One is for the clutch push rod, and the other is for the gear shifter rod. I guess I'll have to dig the manuals out. When I moved into my new office I boxed up a lot of stuff, and the manuals were in the mess. Trying to avoid the hunt. I have read the .ftp copy, but it doesn't get into fixing leaks, just removing the whole engine.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denden Posted December 8, 2007 Share #17 Posted December 8, 2007 There are 2 different seals in there. The one for the clutch shaft is more like a rubber grommet. The one for the shifter shaft is a regular oil seal, with a hard outer rim. I had to get the shaft out of the way in order to pry the old seal out (with a big flat blade screwdriver). Once I got the old seal out, I had to drive the new seal in...I think I used a socket of the right diameter to tap it in, but that was a long time ago. On mine, it was the shifter shaft seal that was leaking. I think the "O" ring on the clutch shaft keeps the oil from coming out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted December 8, 2007 Author Share #18 Posted December 8, 2007 There are 2 different seals in there. The one for the clutch shaft is more like a rubber grommet. The one for the shifter shaft is a regular oil seal, with a hard outer rim. On mine, it was the shifter shaft seal that was leaking. I think the "O" ring on the clutch shaft keeps the oil from coming out. Denden- That's what I was kinda coming up with after reading all the info. I actually hope it is the pan that's leaking. I think I can handle that. It's not easy for me to get my big bod and hands up into the underside of the bike. I have a lift, but think it would only get in the way while the bike's sitting on it, and it looks like I'd probably have the best access with the bike on the side stand anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich99 Posted December 8, 2007 Share #19 Posted December 8, 2007 Denden- That's what I was kinda coming up with after reading all the info. I actually hope it is the pan that's leaking. I think I can handle that. It's not easy for me to get my big bod and hands up into the underside of the bike. I have a lift, but think it would only get in the way while the bike's sitting on it, and it looks like I'd probably have the best access with the bike on the side stand anyway.Next question Jack. I always point out asking Fred in Pahrump about anything that has to do with a 1st gen. Maybe it's because I tell everybody about the fact that he has 3 or 4 bikes torn apart all over his garage that never seem to get fixed. :confused24:Anyway, just a suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted December 8, 2007 Author Share #20 Posted December 8, 2007 Next question Jack. I always point out asking Fred in Pahrump about anything that has to do with a 1st gen. Maybe it's because I tell everybody about the fact that he has 3 or 4 bikes torn apart all over his garage that never seem to get fixed. :confused24:Anyway, just a suggestion. I'm sure Fred has been there and done that just a few times. Wish he lived closer, I'd be over there all the time drivin' him nutz!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gearhead Posted December 10, 2007 Share #21 Posted December 10, 2007 "I wonder if he got around to installing Progressives, it has a Super Brace???" Hmmm...strong possibility! You can probably tell by analyzing the behavior of the front end. Run it on minimum air pressure and go over some sharp bumps or brake really hard - does it bottom or clunk in the front? Or you could get scientific, get a helper and measure static sag. Bottom line - if the bike shows evidence of riding low and floppy with minimum air pressure, it proably has stockers. IMHO, that is. Jeremy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted December 10, 2007 Author Share #22 Posted December 10, 2007 [quote=Gearhead;156265 Hmmm...strong possibility! You can probably tell by analyzing the behavior of the front end. Run it on minimum air pressure and go over some sharp bumps or brake really hard - does it bottom or clunk in the front? Or you could get scientific, get a helper and measure static sag. Bottom line - if the bike shows evidence of riding low and floppy with minimum air pressure, it proably has stockers. IMHO, that is. Jeremy I'll be able to tell more when I get the oil leak taken care of and feel comfortable taking it out for a ride. I have an '83 with Progressives to compare its ride to. It also has a screw-on oil filter, so the possibilities are strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhncue Posted December 10, 2007 Share #23 Posted December 10, 2007 I'll be able to tell more when I get the oil leak taken care of and feel comfortable taking it out for a ride. I have an '83 with Progressives to compare its ride to. It also has a screw-on oil filter, so the possibilities are strong. I would like to know how many miles or the length of time a person can expect to get out of a set of Progressive springs before they break down? I put in a set around 7 years ago and now the bike bottoms out at times. I'm not sure if it is the front, rear or both but it makes for a rough ride. Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted December 10, 2007 Author Share #24 Posted December 10, 2007 I would like to know how many miles or the length of time a person can expect to get out of a set of Progressive springs before they break down? I put in a set around 7 years ago and now the bike bottoms out at times. I'm not sure if it is the front, rear or both but it makes for a rough ride. Dick If you're around my size...'bout three months.... Just kidding... Like all things they'll probably collapse in due time, but I've never heard of a set going bad yet. Look how long did it take before the stock springs went??.. There could be other reasons your bottoming out beside the springs. How's your air pressure? Changed the fork oil lately. Etc. And you may not be bottoming out at all. A loose fairing will sound like 'H' when you hit a bump... Maybe?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86er Posted December 11, 2007 Share #25 Posted December 11, 2007 Great story Todd.... I'll have to remember that about the exhaust... I think your saying that you pulled the slave to replace the seal, and could get the rod out the left side?? I've done a couple of slaves and didn't know the rod would clear the left side. Heck I didn't even know there was a seal in the block, and thought the oil seal was actually handled by the one in the slave... I guess it's only a dust seal. Shows you what I know.... What did you use to remove the old seal? BTW this is on the '91... You don't have to take the lines off. With the slave loose and just hanging (a pain in itself!) the clutch push rod comes right out. To get the seal out I tried a screwdriver and dental pics to no avail, I was afraid of scarring the case so I borrowed a tool from a friend that looks like a 10" long tapered allen with a short 90 degree angle on the thin end (the tool, not my friend!). I called it his nose picker! If you go to FlatOut and go to the clutch, #24 is the oil seal. It's a rubber seal with, like a metal insert and spring. I looked it up on the 91 schematic, it's the same as the 86. Here are a couple of pictures. I don't know how to put all those fancy arrows and circles on them, but the first shows the middle gear for reference and the second shows a closer view of the seal. It is the lower of the two round holes. This is after I have been digging at it and you can see the metal of the seal. The upper hole is for the slave cyl. bolt. I didn't have a correct size socket handy to press it in with (too lazy to get up off the floor and grab one!) so I just gently persuaded it with a punch around the edges until it was seated. I now have about 3k miles with a "non-smoker"! (Before I fixed it I went to Dragonrider's. He said he saw me pull up, but then I disappeared in a cloud of smoke!) Hope this helps, Jack! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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