fork work

[darthandy]

Following Freebird's Tech section instructions, I have the fork springs out (Plastic spacer - did Yamaha use a plastic spacer?) and the bottom bolts out. I tried to remove the lower tubes as instructed, but while they broke loose from the "pressure hold", I seem to be hitting something solid and metallic right at the bottom before they come apart. Anyone know what I'm hitting? I don't want to keep slamming the lower tubes against this without knowing what's happening.

 

Thanks

 

Andy

Edited June 9, 2011 by darthandy

[MiCarl]

They often spin. The only way this works is if there is enough friction between the damping rod and the fork lower to overcome the bolt torque. Since the bolts have loctite on them that's hard to achieve.

 

Using the impact might break it loose because then the inertia of the damping rod works for you.

 

You can try compressing the fork to increase the friction. I use a great big bar clamp. You need to be careful that everything is secure though - a sudden release of the fork spring will create a dangerous object. Again the impact wrench might be the way to break it loose.

 

If all else fails you'll have to remove the cap and spring and insert a tool to hold the damping rod while you extract the bolt. You can use a piece of 5/8 all thread with nuts jammed or welded on the ends as a tool. You could also use a 5/8 bolt with two nuts jammed on it, a socked and some extensions to reach down there. Caveat - I have a semi universal tool where the nut on one end is ground to 22mm, but I believe the Venture uses 24mm, which is close to a standard 5/8 nut.

[darthandy]

Thanks MiCarl,

 

I took my electric impact wrench to it and both bolts came out nicely. I guess you answered before I could change my thread to detail the new problem!

[dingy]

I don't see a problem taking them apart this way.

 

Where I get concerned is when you put them back together, how do you set torque on the bottom bolt?

 

Gary

[MiCarl]

I don't see a problem taking them apart this way.

 

Where I get concerned is when you put them back together, how do you set torque on the bottom bolt?

 

Gary

 

He didn't ask about how to put them together..............

 

 

 

But since you asked for him:

 

Clean up the threads on the damping rod bolt and damping rod prior to reassembly.

 

Install the damping rod, spring and spacers into the upper fork tube. Install the cap. Invert the upper fork tube and install the oil lock and springs onto the exposed end of the damping rod. Invert the lower fork tube and assemble down over the upper tube, damping rod and oil lock. Insert the damping rod bolt (with loctite) and crush washer.

 

Usually the spring will provide enough force to let you properly torque the damping rod bolt. If not, you'll still need to make a tool as described before.

 

Once the bolt is torqued disassemble the cap, spring and spacers to add oil.

[MiCarl]

In answer to your current question:

 

You do have the dust seal and retaining ring removed? If the retaining ring is still in they won't come apart.

 

The upper bushing is pressed into the lower fork tube. The lower bushing will not pass through it. You use the upper tube like a slide hammer to drive the upper bushing out. Usually takes several brisk whacks. Of course this ruins the bushings, plan on replacing them.

 

**CAUTION** When sliding the upper tube back in move it slowly. The oil lock will be rattling around in there someplace and you can damage it by hammering the upper into it.

 

Move in slow then yank out briskly.

 

When they come apart there will be fork oil everywhere. It does not matter how well you've drained them. Even if by some miracle you manage to drain every last drop of oil it will still fling oil everywhere.

[darthandy]

Thanks again MiCarl. So I guess the metal on metal sound is the two bushings getting together! And my next question was going to be ..."How do I reassemble it?" No surprise there, right? Now ...another question. I note in Freebird's description of seal and bushing replacement in the tech section that he did not remove the upper tubes and reassembled everything with them still tied to the triple clamps. I would love to avoid removing the rest of the fairing and the air ride collars if possible, as I am living in fear of trying to reassemble this mess as is and trying to fix some broken and missing tabs. His plan seemed to involve holding parts together with a bit of grease and moving slowly, which is the speed I've been using so far. Is this doable or should I just set fire to the bike and try to collect the insurance? (Oops...did I say that out loud?)

[MiCarl]

I haven't read his write up, but I assume he's using grease to hold the oil lock in place during reassembly? I've never tried anything like that.

 

It isn't necessary to remove the fairings to get them in and out - just the top panels that have the speakers mounted in them. It can be a bit tricky to get the air collars back over them on reassembly, but isn't too bad. If you decide to remove them watch for the rubber spacer (both sides) between the collar and top bridge - they like to fall behind the radiator.

 

There is a spring clip under the collars that needs to be popped out to slide the fork through the lower tree. You do that on the way out so it's easy to get to. Don't forget to put it back before you slide the tube too far up.

[bkuhr]

heres a play-by-play pics of my fork rebuild on the bike

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=49226

[darthandy]

Thanks a lot guys...I appreciate the info. By the way, from the pictures I've seen in the Yamaha manual and the various rebuilds, it would seem that the Ventures came with progressive rate springs (Note the tighter winding at one end than at the other end). The springs in mine seem to be single rate (same winding from one end to the other). I guess that explains the plastic spacers...a previous owner must have replaced the springs. I wonder if the anti-dive is really worth keeping at this point. I don't have anti-dive on my Triumph which had progressive rate springs that I replaced with single rate springs (Of a higher rate) last year and I've noted little fork dive since then. Previously, I would get a good look at my front fender when braking hard. I think I'll do more searching on that topic in the forum. This "quick and dirty" job has turned into a still dirty but much longer job, so I may as well look into any other changes I should be making. Anyway, thanks again.

 

Andy

[MiCarl]

The stock springs were dual rate. Tight winding on one end, broader spaced on the other with a sharp transition. Progressive springs change continually from tight to broad.

 

Mine has what sounds like the same spring you have - single rate, much heavier wire than stock but lots of windings. The thing is very harsh.

 

After some discussion with Snaggletooth about his blown fork seals it occurred to me that the stock volume of oil is probably too much for the spring I have. The extra volume the spring takes results in less air volume and a higher spring rate. Of course the $10 question is how much oil is appropriate for the different spring......

[darthandy]

The stock springs were dual rate. Tight winding on one end, broader spaced on the other with a sharp transition. Progressive springs change continually from tight to broad.

 

Mine has what sounds like the same spring you have - single rate, much heavier wire than stock but lots of windings. The thing is very harsh.

 

After some discussion with Snaggletooth about his blown fork seals it occurred to me that the stock volume of oil is probably too much for the spring I have. The extra volume the spring takes results in less air volume and a higher spring rate. Of course the $10 question is how much oil is appropriate for the different spring......

 

Given the amount of money I've spent on parts so far, I think the question may break the $10 barrier. I'll take a closer look at my springs to see if the spread between coils is constant or if there is a change from end to end but I would think that the progressive springs would also be of heavier stock and therefore require less fork oil. But, as you asked, how much is enough?

[GaryZ]

Progressive springs and a plastic spacer suggest to me that you do not have stock set up. Progressive says compress the forks without springs and fill to 5.5" from the top. I use 10wt fork oil and love the ride and handling. I'm 250 lbs and the bike is carrying very little bling. With full bags and a passenger I added about 6 lbs of air to the front.

[darthandy]

Progressive springs and a plastic spacer suggest to me that you do not have stock set up. Progressive says compress the forks without springs and fill to 5.5" from the top. I use 10wt fork oil and love the ride and handling. I'm 250 lbs and the bike is carrying very little bling. With full bags and a passenger I added about 6 lbs of air to the front.

 

Oops. I may not have expressed myself correctly, Gary. By progressive springs, I meant the progressive rate type rather than springs from Progressive (Couldn't they have picked a less confusing name?). Anyway, I checked my springs and while they look quite different from the springs shown in the manual, they still seem to be dual rate. That is, about one third of the spring has the coils spaced about 2.15 mm apart and the remaining two thirds has coils spaced about 3.61 mm apart. A very small difference mind you...I had to use my calipers to make sure. Either way, they do not seem to be the stock Yamaha springs and they seem to be a good bit stiffer. I certainly didn't notice any bottoming when I was using the bike last fall, but then I also didn't have it heavily loaded. I think the springs will still cause a reduction in the amount of fork oil required since they are probably thicker than the originals, but without more info on their size or who made them, I'm not sure what to do. If I could find some original springs, I suppose I could put them in a tub of liquid and see how much liquid each type displaces but that seems a bit overdone to me.

 

Andy