Politics, Religion, etc.

[Freebird]

Folks, last week was very busy for me and I was unable to get online for any extended amount of time. I know that there was a thread deleted and then another thread explaining why that got a bit out of hand also. I'm pretty sure that this one will end up getting deleted also but I feel that I need to respond to some of the remarks made in that thread.

 

It was voted on by the membership in the early days of this club that political discussions have no place here. This has been discussed MANY times over here but in spite of MANY warnings, they still happen from time to time. It's just human nature that something is going to get under your skin and you just can't control the urge to get it off your chest. I understand that but we ask that you PLEASE no post it here.

 

There was also a statement made that there are a lot of political statements made under the disguise of jokes. That is true. I've seen it many times. I've seen such jokes aimed at the left and others aimed at the right. I can usually see the humor in them regardless of which side they are from and we sometimes will let them slide for a day or so in the misguided hope that they will not become political debates. They usually do though and then get deleted. It seems that it is getting harder and harder to tell any joke without offending somebody so maybe I just need to add an "auto-delete" function to the joke area. Seriously, we try to be fair to both sides and I can promise you that there is no preference given to one side or the other. It simply depends upon the responses. If they are blatantly political, they are typically deleted as soon as one of the moderators see them.

 

Now there were also a number of comments about religion and prayer requests. The forum rules clearly state that religious debate is not allowed. That rule will always be upheld but I don't think I can remember it ever being an issue. Apparently though there is some confusion regarding what is religious debate and prayer requests. When I wrote that rule, my definition of debate was that there would be no discussion in regards to "does God exist", "Protestants vs. Catholics vs. Islam, etc." "Baptism by emersion vs. Sprinkling, etc." The Prayer Request are was created for those who DO believe in prayer to request them and to receive them from other members who believe. That is NOT debate. There have been a few people here who have stated that they are Atheists. I have seen no instances where anybody asked them why they did not believe and try to convert them. I have also seen no instances where an atheist tried to convince a believer that there is no god. The members here have been very respectful to one another and that is all that is asked.

 

I did see a couple of posts in this last discussion from one or two people claiming they are "offended" by the prayer requests. I honestly don't understand that. If you don't believe in prayers then simply don't read the requests but why in the world would anybody be offended by it? I'm not going to be offended because you refuse to pray. I just don't get it. Folks, I very seldom draw a line in the sand here because I've always said that this is OUR forum, not MINE but I know that the prayer request area is appreciated by the vast majority of the members here and it is just something that I am not going to change. I don't want to lose a single member here. I know that you can be an atheist and still be a good person of high morals and a willingness to help your fellow members and all are welcome here regardless of their religious beliefs or lack thereof but if you are truly offended by the prayer request area, then I am sorry but it's not going away. Anybody who is offended to the point that they don't feel they can participate here then just send me a PM and I will refund your membership dues.

 

So, like I said, I will likely have to delete this thread later on because I know it is going to turn into yet another debate but there is really nothing to debate here. We have had the discussions, the members have voted in the past, the rules have proven to work fairly well over the past ...what...8 years? This post is primarily for any new members or visitors who may have questions about these policies.

 

Thanks,

Don

[Kregerdoodle]

Well said Don.

[Carbon_One]

Larry

[Marcarl]

Isn't there somebody who's looking for a good speech writer,,, you could get a high paying job at a desk somewhere.

Not only well said, but well thought out, and all the issues covered, without beating around the bush. Thanks Boss!

[MiCarl]

I think it's too bad that people can be offended by prayer or not, jokes and political discussions. I for one enjoy political jokes even when it's my ox being gored.

 

I also enjoy political debate, but since it violates your rules I try to restrain myself.

 

There is lots of stuff posted I have no interest in. I just go on to the next discussion. Doesn't seem too hard to do.

[Wrongway]

Thanks for the intelligent and rational thoughts you have, Don.

[Aimhigh]

It gets very annoying that some are "offended" by things that others endear. Agree with your stand on this...if you don't want to read it...don't open it.

 

I visit a few Goldwing sites where the conversations tend to head south pretty quick...I have learned which posters tend to irritate me and either block them, or just don't read their post...life is too short to let someone upset you like that.

 

Good for you, Don...I will be praying for you!

[PBJ]

Once again Don you reveal why you are so Loved here by this group, and Why, I think , it has been so successful. As hard as it is to restrain some of these conversations it has been imperative for making this forum feel like a safe place where many friends can come together from around the country and the globe.

 

Yes this is a motorcycle forum primarily but as we all understand it is more about all the friendships that have been established here. keeping things respectful is also a way to help make this a place where the friendship bonds created here are strong and stay strong.

 

It would a shame to lose any friends here but i think that if anyone can not understand how the negative energies some thread generate tear at these friendships then they are missing the larger point of what this forum is really all about. like i said its not so much about the bikes then it is the people who ride them.

 

I just renewed my membership after letting it run out last month. I was debating whether to come back. But I realized There was too much to lose in NOT renewing my membership. I am glad to be back and this meesage you've given is is exactly the reason why I am!!! PB&J.

[a1bummer]

There have been a few people here who have stated that they are Atheists. I have seen no instances where anybody asked them why they did not believe and try to convert them. I have also seen no instances where an atheist tried to convince a believer that there is no god. The members here have been very respectful to one another and that is all that is asked.

 

Thanks,

Don

 

I just so happen to be one of those Atheists. There have been several times when someone has belittled, harassed, or otherwise ridiculed me when I have made it known I am an Atheist. I tried a little experiment and put the "Darwin" fish symbol in my signature a while back and got plenty grief for it. Only one person politely ask me what it meant for sure and what my points of view were on the subject. We had several pm's back and forth. None of which was rude or insulting. So YES, religious discussions can be held without one or all getting all bent out of shape. But by no means should those discussions be done here in the public view so the childish and ignorant people, who just can't help them selves, to ridicule other. The same should also go for the prayers. When you post a thread asking for prayers here, your asking everyone on the entire site for prayers. And while I do ever so deeply feel for those of you who are in a rut or have lost someone you care for, or whatever the case may be, I do not want to pray for you or anybody else.

 

As for the jokes, there was an atheist joke that was very insulting that was less a joke and more of a bashing that condoned violence against them. I had asked it to be removed because I had found it to be very offensive. But the person/persons in charge at the time could not see the offense and chose to leave it posted so many more could join in on the fun at anothers expense.

 

So these days I no longer have the Darwin symbol in my signature, much like many others are aloud to have other religious symbols and sayings in there's without ridicule, and I don't bother reading the jokes anymore. Simply because, even though some people here believe we are all treated with respect and dignity no matter who we might be or where we're from, that is far from the truth.

 

But on the other hand I feel it is only the minority here who feel it is ok to put others down for things they themselves can't possibly comprehend, and I in spite of, thoroughly enjoy this site and have met many wonderful people from here, and hope to meet many more.

 

Oh! And the vast knowledge and all the tech stuff here helps as well. No other site/forum I have ever been a part of, has been so comprehensive.

 

Bill

[royalstar09]

My opinion is this:

There is a joke section, they should be put there

There is a prayer request section, them should be put there.

There is a section for this and that and not all comments, request, or whatever belong here in the "watering hole".....

If the specific things were kept in their "appropriate" place then those who choose to offer prayers will go there and check for them, or those who enjoy a joke can go there. I do not read much in the First Gen section because I own a Second Gen. Really don't look at the prayer request section much because I don't pretend to be something I am not. If I see a prayer request in here (the "watering hole") I skip it and wonder why it is here and not where it belongs.

It is simple. Folks know the majority of the traffic is here so it is a way to get a fast reply or ensure that more people see it. I think as a general rule when someone puts a post up they like to see replies to it. So a prayer request here will get more foot traffic then one in the prayer request section.

If I put a post in the parts for sale section, but a mod sees that it is an entire bike it will more then likely be moved to its appropriate section. Same should be done with everything else. Just my $0.02

[dray]

I pray no one hurts any one with a prayer

[SilvrT]

Folks need to quit being so serious and take more things with a "grain of salt". Don't sweat the small stuff as the saying goes. If you read something and you're offended by it, and it's not directed specifically at you, then that offended feeling you have is yours. Own it and quit whining and move on. This is a "public" place ... face the fact that there will be times when you will read something offensive (to you). Bear in mind that what "you" find offensive is not necessarilly shared by the majority, or for that matter, by anyone else. If you feel you must take issue with it, do it in private.

 

Thanks for reading my post.... if you are offended, too bad!

[FreezyRider]

Folks need to quit being so serious and take more things with a "grain of salt". Don't sweat the small stuff as the saying goes. If you read something and you're offended by it, and it's not directed specifically at you, then that offended feeling you have is yours. Own it and quit whining and move on. This is a "public" place ... face the fact that there will be times when you will read something offensive (to you). Bear in mind that what "you" find offensive is not necessarilly shared by the majority, or for that matter, by anyone else. If you feel you must take issue with it, do it in private.

 

Thanks for reading my post.... if you are offended, too bad!

 

Couldn't have said it any better!

Thanks!

[Royal Star Ronnie]

Folks need to quit being so serious and take more things with a "grain of salt". Don't sweat the small stuff as the saying goes. If you read something and you're offended by it, and it's not directed specifically at you, then that offended feeling you have is yours. Own it and quit whining and move on. This is a "public" place ... face the fact that there will be times when you will read something offensive (to you). Bear in mind that what "you" find offensive is not necessarilly shared by the majority, or for that matter, by anyone else. If you feel you must take issue with it, do it in private.

 

Thanks for reading my post.... if you are offended, too bad!

 

+2 !

[GolfVenture]

+2 !

 

Agree.

 

One can't talk Politics and Religion at work.

One can't talk Politics at Church.

One can't talk Politics and Religion with relatives.

One can't talk Politics and Religion with friends.

One can't talk Politics and Religion at social functions.

One can't talk Politics and Religion in public.

 

So therefore one can't really talk about Politics and Religion any where.

Well maybe in your home still.

 

We each will still receive input on Politics and Religion.

 

You ask where?

 

From the media who is allowed to speak their opinion and has creatively shut out the individual's right to speak their opinion in a county who boasts the freedom of free speech.

 

Well at least we can still think our mind to ourselves. Oh wait we might offend those who possess ESP.

[SilvrT]

Agree.

 

One can't talk Politics and Religion at work.

One can't talk Politics at Church.

One can't talk Politics and Religion with relatives.

One can't talk Politics and Religion with friends.

One can't talk Politics and Religion at social functions.

One can't talk Politics and Religion in public.

 

So therefore one can't really talk about Politics and Religion any where.

Well maybe in your home still.

 

We each will still receive input on Politics and Religion.

 

You ask where?

 

From the media who is allowed to speak their opinion and has creatively shut out the individual's right to speak their opinion in a county who boasts the freedom of free speech.

 

Well at least we can still think our mind to ourselves. Oh wait we might offend those who possess ESP.

 

Looks to me like you've just done more talking (typing) about Politics and Religion than I've ever seen....

[Guest Swifty]

So, like I said, I will likely have to delete this thread later on because I know it is going to turn into yet another debate....

Don

Oh ye of little faith!

[GAWildKat]

I'll throw my 2 cents in. I don't talk politics unless the ppl who I'm talking with, want to hear. I don't talk religion unless all parties want to hear my speech on religion.

 

My friendships aren't based on religion or politics. It's because I like the person. I try to avoid the political and religious banter because I am in the religious minority in this country. I'm a happy, grounded woman who has studied religions extensively from the time I was a small child. When I got old enough and secure enough in my self I told select friends that I'm pagan. Sadly my family (minus my husband) still doesn't know, mostly because they aren't open-minded, and openhearted enough, to accept me unless I stay Christian in their minds. Will I go to Church? Absolutely! I love a good time singing hymns. And I feel there is value in the bible.

 

I also feel prayer is important to a person's mental wellbeing. If someone asks me to pray for them I will. I will ask for prayers for myself and others as well.

 

I am sorry if anyone is offended that I'm pagan. I don't preach my beliefs to anyone unless asked, then I educate people if they want to listen.

 

I feel that there's enough places online and off where we can chat about religion and politics without dirting up this wonderful site. :bighug::bighug:

[friesman]

Well said Don! THe Mods do a great job and I feel they are very fair in their no win situation.

 

 

The mods kinda have Milk-bone underwear in this dog-eat-dog world....

 

Brian

[kevin-vic-b.c.]

Isn't there somebody who's looking for a good speech writer,,, you could get a high paying job at a desk somewhere.

Not only well said, but well thought out, and all the issues covered, without beating around the bush. Thanks Boss!

 

:sign yeah that: :sign yeah that: :sign yeah that: :sign yeah that: :sign yeah that: :sign yeah that: :sign yeah that: :sign yeah that: :sign yeah that:

[warriorhoneybee]

well said boss man!!!!keep up the good work.

[dray]

Folks need to quit being so serious and take more things with a "grain of salt". Don't sweat the small stuff as the saying goes. If you read something and you're offended by it, and it's not directed specifically at you, then that offended feeling you have is yours. Own it and quit whining and move on. This is a "public" place ... face the fact that there will be times when you will read something offensive (to you). Bear in mind that what "you" find offensive is not necessarilly shared by the majority, or for that matter, by anyone else. If you feel you must take issue with it, do it in private.

 

Thanks for reading my post.... if you are offended, too bad!

 

Tell'em again:thumbsup2:

[Capt-D]

Don, it is because of you and the moderastors doing a great job that this site is what it is. Keep up the good work, and thankyou for all the time and effort you put into this site.

:cool10::cool10::cool10::cool10::cool10::cool10::cool10::cool10::cool10:

[Evan]

Don, you and the moderators certainly have my support, along with the obvious support from so many others.

[hipshot]

Don. i totally agree with your rules and regulations.

 

 

 

 

does this mean that i don't get to TEST the moderators, anymore???

lol

justjt