Ignition problem -----car related.

[Snaggletooth]

Grab a beer boys ....this is a long one. Ok ...two beers.

 

Ok, here's the problem. A '95 Lincoln Towncar 4.6. About 2 years ago I went to leave for work and the car would crank like crazy but no spark. Checked battery and it was well charged and everything seemed to be fine except it would not fire. I tried everything I knew about Lincolns and finally had it towed to my oldest friends shop. He is the ONLY person I have trusted to work on my vehicles. Honest and straight up shop that does what is needed and no screwing around. His service staff is top notch and well trained.

 

So he has it for the day and calls and says it's fixed. The ignition module was bad. That was all. Everything else was fine. Only $240.00 for the module and $75.00 for the tow. Picked it up and it was fine. Started great as it always had.

 

Then......13 months later......it does it again. Same trouble shooting process and the tow to his shop. The ignition module was found to be bad again. Plugged in a new one and it fired right up. But he did go to bat for me and got the first module replaced by warrenty. It was out by a month but they covered it. I asked him to keep the car for another day and do a full trouble shooting rundown on it to see if he could find if there was something causing the modules to fail. He did.....and found no problems at all.

 

Then.........6 months later it did it again. He had a mechanic run a new module to where I was 30 miles away and we plugged it in and it fired right up. Again. And this time the module could not be covered under warranty. Crap. Another $240.00.

 

So back to his shop and we spent an evening going through the cars system. Had a couple of his techs hanging around as they were curious, and I was holding the beer cooler. The only thing that seemed to keep coming up was a possible problem with excessive resistance causing the module to fail. Most likely culprit....the plug wires. We tested each and every wire and found none showing to be bad. I replaced them anyway.

 

So some time passed. Until last Sunday. And again...same story. Rerun.

 

Ok, so it's sitting in my garage being defiant. Much like myself at this point. I've talked to my buddy and and his techs and they are baffled. In doing my research and reading the service manuals I know the computer in the car needs 10.5 volts to operate, but they usually won't act up until 9.5 to 10 volts. I've owned several Lincolns in the past. This much I know. LOL! Going back to the battery I made sure I've got that available. When cranking I'm only dropping to about 11.9 at the lowest when I've been cranking quite a few times. Battery is being kept at full charge during all this.

 

I'm not making any progress guys. I'm willing to drop another $240.00 for another module IF I know it will last.

 

There has to be something causing this to fail....and it seems to be happening more often.

 

And besides that....it has rained every danged day since it quit starting. The bike looks like hell. That has to stop.

 

I need some advice.

 

Thoughts?....ideas?.....advice?.....magical cures?....donations to buy another car?

 

Dancing in the rain......

 

Mike

[MiCarl]

Without knowing exactly what in the module is failing it's hard to begin guessing what is killing it.

 

It's not likely to be too much resistance or low voltage. More likely to be some type of short or voltage too high.

 

High voltage should be cooking the battery and lights too, but it'd be worth checking the charging system. I'd also ohm out the primary on the coil(s) to make sure they aren't drawing too much current.

 

Are they using a rebuilt ECM from someone that is using shoddy parts?

 

Last year I needed one for my daughters Intrepid. I bought a re manufactured one that has a life time warranty. I don't remember where I bought it but I have the paperwork at the shop. I'll try to remember to dig it out tomorrow and send you the info.

[CaptainJoe]

found this on the web:

 

http://car-and-safety.com/lincoln-town-car-safety/lincoln-town-car-1998.htm#607822&search=ignition coil failed causing no start conditions. mjs

 

see following exerpt from Ron lambert

"I had the same problem with car shutting off while driving...A 96 Town Car with a 4.6 engine. Found a ground wire not grounding to fuse/relay box where the ignition relay was located, (the screw that held the ground wire just needed tighting up. No problems sinse) not grounding caused the relay to get hot. Hope this helps with you.. "

 

 

Whilst perusing thru web the no# 1 cause for bad modules was due to overheating...

 

 

Hope this helps ... I'm gonna gp get my two beers now...

Edited May 13, 2011 by CaptainJoe

[dingy]

I say take the module out bake it in the oven for an hour at 150 deg f

 

 

Ohm the spark plug wires. 10K ohms.

 

 

Cut about a 1/4" off of ends of wires before replacing.

 

 

Put new plugs in.

 

 

SeaFoam Seafoam SeaFoam

 

 

Then do an Fuel Injection sync.

 

 

Damn, Mike, How many times we gotta say this stuff ??

 

 

Gary

[Snaggletooth]

Hi Carl,

 

I'm just drowning in problems lately eh? LOL!

 

Nope, each new module has been a Motorcraft DY-755-A (fixed) from NAPA. They stood behind the first one and that was fine but with several failures of the same kind they won't cover the others. No problem with that. Fair enough.

 

Charging system is working fine, never seen a reading above 14.5 and the battery is holding charges well. Possible shorts were chased but none found. But then again......how many miles of wire on a Lincoln? It's possible. But the thing I wonder about, and with my limited knowledge of this stuff, the module fails and you can't get the spark to fire. If you lose spark when the module fails why hasn't this problem manifested itself while the car us running down the road, God forbid.

 

Ok, ok ignition module. I suppose the circiut is bypassed once the car is running. A guess. I don't fully understand this type of stuff.

 

I'll check with Steve and see if the coils were checked during the trouble shooting. Knowing the way he does things I would assume they were.

 

More things to ponder.

 

Thanks

 

Mike

Edited May 13, 2011 by Snaggletooth
Stupidity D'oh!

[Pam]

Bad ground???? I had an 88 Ford F150 and one day the check enfine light came on, Opened the hood and the engine was still there. After some nice words I bought a code reader and it kept giving every code in the book. Turned out the module had a frie spot in it. About $500. later I was in busness again. Never did fiqure out what was going on.

 

Good Lu:confused24:ck

[bkuhr]

Don't know about Lincon, but is there some sort of condensor/surge suppressor in the coil primary circuit. If so I would replace it, and maybe the coil also on the assumption the the coil is creating to much back emf during field collaspe and overloading the module.

 

Just a guess:2cents:

[Snaggletooth]

found this on the web:

 

http://car-and-safety.com/lincoln-town-car-safety/lincoln-town-car-1998.htm#607822&search=ignition coil failed causing no start conditions. mjs

 

see following exerpt from Ron lambert

"I had the same problem with car shutting off while driving...A 96 Town Car with a 4.6 engine. Found a ground wire not grounding to fuse/relay box where the ignition relay was located, (the screw that held the ground wire just needed tighting up. No problems sinse) not grounding caused the relay to get hot. Hope this helps with you.. "

 

 

Whilst perusing thru web the no# 1 cause for bad modules was due to overheating...

 

 

Hope this helps ... I'm gonna gp get my two beers now...

 

Just read through some of that. It makes the coils more suspect. I've done a lot of checking on the wires and grounds and will double check those again.

 

So far the car has not died while running, only fails to fire when trying to start.

 

Thanks for the info.

 

Mike

[Flyinfool]

OK just a WAG here. With a shot outside the box.

When the module was not working did you ever actually test for spark? Did you test for voltage to the fuel pump and proper fuel pressure?

My GFs Mercury had a similar problem with similar symptoms that ended up being a bad fuel pump. I don't know if Merc and Lincoln systems are similar.

 

I think I would take apart one of those bad modules to see if the actual fail point can be found.

 

FWIW, The shop that I deal with will no longer use NAPA ignition parts due to short life. OEM only from the dealer.

[royalstar09]

What is fuel pressure when not starting? Key on engine off pressure, and cranking pressure??

Are the injectors firing while cranking??

[BuddyRich]

I found the problem. Delco (GM)parts on a Ford...DUH.... .

Good luck, Had an 84 Town Car that would die while driving down the road. Found it was the Ign module. They replaced 2 of them over a 3 year period before fixing it for good.

[Reddog170]

You know I had a Lincoln that would do the exact same thing. About every six months to a year it would fry a module. It turned out that when I would turn on the key it would fire a coil in an odd way that would take out the module. Upon almost 6 months of searching and testing we found that the coil had a intermittent short that caused it. Replaced the coils, drove it for another few months and sold the car. The guy that bought it from me still drives it and has never had to replace another module. That short was a nightmare to find. Best of luck, Shaun

[Snaggletooth]

I found the problem. Delco (GM)parts on a Ford...DUH....

 

Yep, one more stupid thing comes outta my mouth ya'll gonna tar and feather me.

 

I've been spending too much time working on my daughters BF's car and had Delco on my brain.

 

It it a Motorcraft DY-755-A Ignition Module.