See a grown man cry

[Wizard765]

Come on by and watch me....

 

After spending most of the winter taking on the 2nd gear issue and having lots of ups and downs we finally got the bike back together. Hooked it all up with exhaust etc..

Lots of help from folks on the site.. Like Dingy, Dano and Skydoc. Mostly Marcarl..

 

Anyhow it started right up BUT it makes an enormous racket while in neutral. Goes through the gears fine and quiet in every gear but in neutral it sounds like a metal playing card on bicycle spokes... Looking like I have to pull the motor again which is a BIG job for my limited skills and then chase down the problem and re-assemble. Down time with not riding is going to kill me...

 

Anyhow does anyone have any suggestions as to what I did wrong?

 

Wayne

[Kregerdoodle]

Leave a wrench in it?? Just kidding, sorry to hear, as it sounds like a major job, best of luck!

 

 

Come on by and watch me....

 

After spending most of the winter taking on the 2nd gear issue and having lots of ups and downs we finally got the bike back together. Hooked it all up with exhaust etc..

Lots of help from folks on the site.. Like Dingy, Dano and Skydoc. Mostly Marcarl..

 

Anyhow it started right up BUT it makes an enormous racket while in neutral. Goes through the gears fine and quiet in every gear but in neutral it sounds like a metal playing card on bicycle spokes... Looking like I have to pull the motor again which is a BIG job for my limited skills and then chase down the problem and re-assemble. Down time with not riding is going to kill me...

 

Anyhow does anyone have any suggestions as to what I did wrong?

 

Wayne

[Wizard765]

LOL I actually gave that a thought but not a wrench.. maybe a bolt or something but I think it would make the noise all the time and be even worse...(if you can get worse)

[Herb In Texas]

Been in your shoes before. It is dis-heartening but usualy some thing simple, like a snap ring that slipped or a missing shim. Been wrenching on stuff for the majority of my life and Im here to tell ya the successes far out wiegh the failuers. unless we are talking about spelling. take it apart slow and have your parts blow up handy. you will find it.

round here we call it re-lickin your cat.

[dingy]

Just a wild ass idea.

Maybe one off the shift forks is slightly bent & when gears are in neutral, one is still trying to engage.

Did you use your forks or the ones I sent?

Mine were out of my 1200 that was showing no signs of 2nd gear problems.

Gary

[XV1100SE]

If you need another set of hands... let me know. I'll help in any way I can. Just say when.

[Bubber]

OK not sure about the Maytags but here goes:stickpoke:

 

1) take the bottom access cover ofthe underside of the engine (if it like the 2nd Gen)

2) Get the bike as high up as you can, hang it from the rafters (with supports)

3) take a flashlight and see if you can see what ever it is by looking up and back into the trnamission.

4) If it is loose you may be able to remove it.

5) If it is a C clip you may be able to get it back on.

6) If it is the forks you may be able to see just how it is working and or rubbing and determing how to fix it.

7) use a magnet to see if there are loose parts.

8) also lookdown the oil filler hole with a light from the bottom to see what you can see

9) Borescope would be fantastic for a job like this to see down in the bowls of the transmission

 

Beyond that I am lost and I am not so sure what I just told you is even possible but I thought I would at least try to help.

 

Sorry to hear of your troubles. Hope this helps at least a little bit.

 

Bubber

[Venturous Randy]

I'm thinking real hard on this one.

Fist of all, does it make any difference if the clutch is in or out? With you saying it sounds ok while in any of the gears, Are you talking about you riding it or is the bike on the center stand with the clutch out and in gear?

I feel for you on this one as I am getting ready to start putting the low mileage 83 engine back together with the 2nd gen transmission in it and the bike is running so good right now the way it is.

RandyA

[Squeeze]

Just a wild ass idea.

 

Maybe one off the shift forks is slightly bent & when gears are in neutral, one is still trying to engage.

 

Did you use your forks or the ones I sent?

 

Mine were out of my 1200 that was showing no signs of 2nd gear problems.

 

Gary

 

That would be my Guess too. Something's wrong with the Shift Cam Shaft or one of the Shift Forks is pushing a Gear/partly engaging a Gear.

 

Or did you mix up Parts from different Gear Sets ?

[Marcarl]

We used the gears sent by Dingy, but did not change the forks seeing as we could see nothing wrong with the ones that were in there to start with. And everything seemed to work fine on the bench before we put the bolts back in.

It only makes the noise (sounds like a bolt hitting something in rotation) in neutral, and only when the clutch engages, whether the lever is in or out. So we can put it in gear and the noise goes away, slip it into neutral and all is well, wait for the slight friction to start turning the tranny and it returns.

[Squeeze]

Try to put a little upward and downward force on the Shift Lever while the Tranny is in neutral and with a little Clutch engaged. Within the Theory, the Noise should go away when the Shift Fork moves the Gear a bit and would getting worse when forcing the Shift Shaft towards the opposite Direction. But please take it easy on Clutch and Tranny ....

[Evan]

Wayne, I can't offer any help on how to fix your problem, but I can sure offer you my sympathy and good luck wishes for a fix that is easier than you expect.

The last time I did transmission work was back in about 1964 when I helped my dad replace the forks to fix second gear in my Honda 305 Dream. We got lucky! Hope you get lucky with your fix.

[Marcarl]

I took the clutch out to see if anything un-towards was happening in that area. So that gives me some sense of where all this comes from. The sound comes from inside the tranny and it could be either the forks or gears touching..... guess it's coming out,,, wish us well.

[Venturous Randy]

If you used forks from a transmission that was jumping in 2nd gear, I would be VERY surprised if they are not bent. Got another question, does it matter if you lean the bike a little to the right or left?

About 60,000 miles after I did the undercut on my 2nd gear, I began to have a rattle with the bike in neutral with it on the side stand. If I straightened it up or leaned the bike to the right, it was a lot less or went away. I ended up replacing the transmission with an 86 model along with the forks and problem solved.

RandyA

[bongobobny]

Hmmmmm, I see a 2nd gen in Wayne's future...:stirthepot:

[rjyammy]

Just got done doing 2nd gear in mine on saturday, so i know how much work you put into it.

Sorry yours didn't work out so good.

Sounds to me like the problem is a bent shift fork. I think it shifted fine when apart if you didn't have the end bearing retainers installed as it would hold the shafts in proper location, is that possible?

I checked the shifting out after i put case halves together before installing anything else.

It works beautiful now, great to have 2nd gear back. I also updated the water pump impeller and had to replace stator as mine looked like it had got hot, just to be safe.

Hope you have good luck in finding problem.

[Wizard765]

So it is looking like the consensus is that the forks are bent and I have to agree with that. Dingy even sent me good ones. I should have changed them but the originals looked fine. So out comes the engine and a kick in the butt for not just changing the forks with known good ones...

 

Thanks everyone for your input.. I will keep a close watch on stuff as it comes apart just in case it is something else. I'll keep you all posted on the results..

[Marcarl]

Will be able to use some strong arms round about 7:30 pm

[Venturous Randy]

So it is looking like the consensus is that the forks are bent and I have to agree with that. Dingy even sent me good ones. I should have changed them but the originals looked fine. So out comes the engine and a kick in the butt for not just changing the forks with known good ones...

 

Thanks everyone for your input.. I will keep a close watch on stuff as it comes apart just in case it is something else. I'll keep you all posted on the results..

 

I don't know whether you did this or not, but I always put the entire gearset in the bottom half of the motor with it apart and run thru the gears. This way, you can see all the gear side clearances and engagements with it still apart. You do have to make sure that the bearing end with the big nut on it is seated tight against the shims. This is the way that I determined that the 1st gen gear selector guide would not work with the 2nd gen transmission and I would have to use the 2nd gen gear selector.

Another thing to look for on forks is to see if there are score marks on the sides. If it is bent, on one side the score marks will be on the tips and on the other side it will be at the bottom of the "U".

RandyA

[dingy]

That would be my Guess too. Something's wrong with the Shift Cam Shaft or one of the Shift Forks is pushing a Gear/partly engaging a Gear.

 

Or did you mix up Parts from different Gear Sets ?

 

 

In response to mixing parts from gearsets, I know he did. I sent him two gear pairs from my 1200 gearset. Dano undercut them and he used these with his shaft.

 

Picture shows what I sent.

 

Gary

[XV1100SE]

Will be able to use some strong arms round about 7:30 pm

 

Didn't see this until now.... Wed at 7:30pm? I could manage that ! (or earlier if needed - off work at 3pm)

[BradT]

Just curious if you rev the motor in neutral does the sound get faster as well. ?

 

I ended up pulling the engine a second time on my 86 because I did not check something when I was that far into it.

 

It comes out and goes back together a lot easier the second time.

 

Good luck

 

Brad

[Marcarl]

Turns out,, now that we have it all apart, that second gear doesn't clear completely in neutral,, it seems to be fine when in gear, the dogs clear, but in neutral it doesn't quite clear.

So now what, do we bend the forks to accommodate, file a wee bit off the dogs so that they clear, or stick it back together and take out the hearing aids?

We presently have Dingy's gear set and forks installed. Why would this happen? What would have changed? Should we change back to the original gear set? We mic'd them both and they seem to be the same,,, pretty hard to tell on casting, but they are close.

Edited May 4, 2011 by Marcarl

[saddlebum]

I have never had one of these apart, but have done alot of transmissions. Is it possible that a gear was flipped around the wrong way or a spacer washer put on the wrong side of a gear. somtimes a gear looks the same on both sides but a closer look the center bore and shoulder reveals a slightly longer shoulder on one side of the gear than the other.

[Hummingbird]

Wayne - I sure wish I could help but I'm dumber about bike transmissions than I am about puters and you where that's at -

 

Good Luck with the fix

 

Dick