** Above and beyond the Call of Duty ** skydoc_17

[SilvrT]

I had been thinking about ding something with my stock clutch, only in that I cannot stand that I have to relaease it nearly all the way before the bike moves. It only has 4,000 miles so I cannot imagine it to be wore out. I am going to follow this because if a cure is found I WILL do it. All my other bikes relaesed as the origional poster stated, and the RSV releasing so "late" is something I do not like at all.

 

 

Once I have installed the 2 stock springs, I will do a followup.

[royalstar09]

Once I have installed the 2 stock springs, I will do a followup.

 

 

Much appreciated. I just feel like I am sliding the disc everytime I try to take off, and the slightest tension on the clutch lever will "slip it". It seems like it could use an additional friction plate and disc..........

[SilvrT]

Much appreciated. I just feel like I am sliding the disc everytime I try to take off, and the slightest tension on the clutch lever will "slip it". It seems like it could use an additional friction plate and disc..........

 

There seems to be a very small "friction zone" on these clutches ... that doesn't bother me much.

 

It does surprise me tho that yours, being stock, acts like mine after the upgrade whereas mine didn't before. Makes one wonder ... Too bad there isn't some sort of adjuster so a person could adjust the lever for what best suits them .... seems to me a mechanical clutch allows this (in a roundabout fashion).

[LilBeaver]

It's pretty apparent that the position of the clutch lever when the clutch engages/disengages is a personal thing and has NOTHING to do with the actual workings of the clutch and the effectiveness of the upgrade kit.

...

 

Absolutely right - for the record I certainly did not mean to imply any different as my upgrade kit eliminated the slipping and grabs just fine. It does what it should do and works like it should work. It is simply my preference to have it function differently than it does in its current state.

 

In my case, I have relatively small hands (albeit my grip strength for my size would surprise many)

...

 

Boy is it difficult to not comment on this statement...

 

In my case, I have relatively small hands (albeit my grip strength for my size would surprise many) and "working" the clutch with my fingertips just didn't make me feel "safe" .... like I wasn't totally in control. I found I had to "stretch" my hand in order to get a proper grip on the lever as if I didn't, it felt as though it would be too easy for the lever to slip off the end of my fingers .... which could prove dangerous.

 

Completely agree. My hands might be a tad bigger than yours as I do feel that I have full control over the clutch without fear of it slipping out of my finger-tips throughout the entire range of motion of the clutch lever; however, it is still my preference to have it start to engage closer to the 1/2 way point of the lever motion and be fully engaged before the lever is fully extended.

[LilBeaver]

Not to mention I want my friction zone back.

 

I practice the Ride Like a Pro exercises with the scoot and I have found that with my Venture it is difficult at best to maintain the friction zone due to the wet clutch. Now I just keep the scoot in 1st gear and do the routines with much more ease....and I have SkyDoc's clutch upgrade as well.

Boomer....who sez yer performance/mileage will vary dependent upon yer proximity to Dairy Queen and de number of pygmies yer packing.

 

Yes, good advice here. Since my install I have spent some serious parking lot time in an effort to really effectively work the 'zone' and regain my comfort in low speed maneuvering. Based on conversations with many members that have done the upgrade (in any form, not just the skydoc kit) it seems that no two members have experienced (or described) the 'same' change in the friction zone. My guess is that the actual differences bike to bike are closer than it may seem it is just the ability for each rider to effectively and accurately communicate the differences is lacking.

I have gotten a lot better in dealing with it, but it seems like my 'old' friction zone was about 1/3 of the total travel of the lever (starting at about 1/3 extended and ending about 2/3 extended) where I would do most of my low speed maneuvering with the lever about 1/2 extended. Now it all takes place within a very small range of motion starting around 2/3 extension, if not further.

[SilvrT]

Boy is it difficult to not comment on this statement...

 

Oh go ahead .... why leave us wondering....

[Squeeze]

.... Now it all takes place within a very small range of motion starting around 2/3 extension, if not further.

 

 

If i may ask, did you pay Attention on where to place the round/sharp Edges of the Steel Plates ??

 

 

What i'm getting at is ...

 

If you place all the sharp Edges towards the outside of the the Motor, the Pulling Force on the Lever will be slightly harder and the actual "Friction Zone" will possibly be narrower than with the sharp Edges facing inwards on the Clutch Hub.

 

That's because the sharp Edges allways "bite" a bit into the Surface of the Splines at Clutch Hub. This may cause a narrower Friction Zone and a very small Difference between the Clutch Package not grabbing, slightly biting and full Clamping Force. Simply because the Round Edges are not hindering the the Travel of the Steel Plates on their Way back into full clamping Position. The Upside of this is, of Course, the Steel Plates arem allowed an easy travel and full calmping Force.

 

If you reverse the Steel Plates, a Pull on the Lever will make it easier for the Package to disengage and thereby probably making the Friction Zone a bit wider by not letting the Steel Plates travel back that easy.

 

Please understand, I'm talking in Theory here, i never experimented in that Area, because i have Lock-Up clutches in both Bike, the VR and the 1Gen Max. Nevertheless, it could make that small Amount of Difference to put you back into your Comfort Zone. The Friction Zone allways will be different with a stiffer or double Spring Setup, but if it makes enough Difference for you, you could live with the Outcome and be a happy Camper without spending extra Money.

 

Yes, there are other Options available, but besides a Lock-Up Clutch or a EFM Clutch, all will require extended Pulling Force and most likely narrow the Friction Zone also. It's Physics. Springs are Springs and the Amount of Room between Pressure Plate and Clutch Cover is very limited.

[SilvrT]

because i have Lock-Up clutches in both Bike

 

Lutz, can you elaborate on this plz? What is it ... how does it work, etc, etc and who makes them?

[Squeeze]

Rick, it's Kinda hard for me to describe.

 

There are Weights attached to the Pressure Plate inside the Clutch Hub. Once you release the Lever, the Weights start to clamp down the Pressure Plate by the centrifugal Force. The stock Springs stays in Place, but since the Clutch doesn't rely on Spring Force anymore, i put in the weakest Spring i had lying around.

 

Who makes them ...

 

There's french Company called OTEC who brought those up here in Europe. But their Prices are ... ridiculous ... You can get them direct from Cannes Moto Service http://www.cannesmotoservices.com/ or from Exactrep in England or from Wild Bros in US here .. http://www.wildbros.com/Clutches.html

 

I Tend to believe these are very similar Clutches, obviously made in US, and even one without using a Clutch Lever at all http://www.efmautoclutch.com/street.shtml

 

Since we Maxxers over here in Germany are all broke, a Guy from our Forum made very similar Clutches(not to say he copied the OTEC) for us at a special (cheap) Price. But the Source has drained out since. I Friend of mine has everything measured and put into the CAD but since the Economy picked up up at his Business, he can't get them done any Time soon.

Edited April 21, 2011 by Squeeze
Typos, sorry Rick !!

[SilvrT]

Rick, it's Kinda hard for me to describe.

 

There are Weights attached to the Pressure Plate inside the Clutch Hub. Once you release the Lever, the Weights start to clamp down the Pressure Plate by the centrifugal Force. The stock Springs stays in Place, but since the Clutch doesn't rely on Spring Force anymore, i put in the weakest Spring i had lying around.

 

Who makes them ...

 

There's french Company called OTEC who brought those up here in Europe. But their Prices are ... ridiculous ... You can get them direct from Cannes Moto Service http://www.cannesmotoservices.com/ or from Exactrep in England or from Wild Bros in US here .. http://www.wildbros.com/Clutches.html

 

I Tend to believe these are very similar Clutches, obviously made in US, and even one without using a Clutch Lever at all http://www.efmautoclutch.com/street.shtml

 

Since we Maxxers over here in Germany are all broke, a Guy from our Forum made very similar Clutches(not to say he copied the OTEC) for us at a special (cheap) Price. But the Source has drained out since. I Friend of mine has everything measured and put into the CAD but since the Economy picked up up at his Business, he can't get them done any Time soon.

 

ahhhhhh... so this might be something like a "slip clutch" .... such that you'd find on a snow machine or maybe even a powersaw...??

 

I underline that as I realize there is a difference .... but a similar principle none the less.

[Squeeze]

It's not like a Slip Clutch (btw Slipper Clutch has another Meaning when talking Bikes), it's a centrifugal Clutch, the faster the Clutch Hub(the inner Part of the two) spins the more the Weights forces the Clutch Package together.

 

http://www.wildbros.com/images/lockup1.jpgThose six Bolts on the Ends of the small Levers are the Weights, the Levers clamp the Package. If you pull the Clutch Lever, even while under full Throttle, the Levers are forced back to disenage the Clutch. Works great.

[LilBeaver]

If i may ask, did you pay Attention on where to place the round/sharp Edges of the Steel Plates ??

 

 

What i'm getting at is ...

 

If you place all the sharp Edges towards the outside of the the Motor, the Pulling Force on the Lever will be slightly harder and the actual "Friction Zone" will possibly be narrower than with the sharp Edges facing inwards on the Clutch Hub.

 

That's because the sharp Edges allways "bite" a bit into the Surface of the Splines at Clutch Hub. This may cause a narrower Friction Zone and a very small Difference between the Clutch Package not grabbing, slightly biting and full Clamping Force. Simply because the Round Edges are not hindering the the Travel of the Steel Plates on their Way back into full clamping Position. The Upside of this is, of Course, the Steel Plates arem allowed an easy travel and full calmping Force.

 

If you reverse the Steel Plates, a Pull on the Lever will make it easier for the Package to disengage and thereby probably making the Friction Zone a bit wider by not letting the Steel Plates travel back that easy.

 

Please understand, I'm talking in Theory here, i never experimented in that Area, because i have Lock-Up clutches in both Bike, the VR and the 1Gen Max. Nevertheless, it could make that small Amount of Difference to put you back into your Comfort Zone. The Friction Zone allways will be different with a stiffer or double Spring Setup, but if it makes enough Difference for you, you could live with the Outcome and be a happy Camper without spending extra Money.

 

Yes, there are other Options available, but besides a Lock-Up Clutch or a EFM Clutch, all will require extended Pulling Force and most likely narrow the Friction Zone also. It's Physics. Springs are Springs and the Amount of Room between Pressure Plate and Clutch Cover is very limited.

 

Excellent info here, thank you for elaborating the way you did.

 

To answer your question, I was very careful to reinstall everything exactly how it was when I took it apart. My purpose in doing so was to change as little as possible during the change-over. I wanted to make sure to remove any unnecessary variables in the changing process.

However, I did NOT pay any attention to the 'shape' or edge that existed on each of the steels as I removed or reinstalled - just to put them back in the exact orientation that they came out (rotational orientation as well as front-back). I do have plenty of pictures from the process I can go back and review, although they probably will not show in that great of detail.

When I get some time, maybe I'll go ahead and pull it apart to take a look to see and do some testing one way or another.

 

Thanks again.

[Evan]

You can add me to the list of guys that Earl has helped out. He cares and delivers!