R1/R6 caliper question

[dingy]

Which set of the R1/R6 brakes is better?

 

The Gold dots or the Blue dots?

 

Which donor bike is better R1, R6, FJR?

 

I have seen some six piston calipers. Will these fit a 1st gen MKII?

 

The Blue dots appear to have different size pistons, the Gold dots appear the same size. Anyone know the piston diameters?

 

Do they make plastic pad covers for these? I didn't see them in the parts fiche.

 

I might put a set of these on while I am in there. Probably need to be able to slow this puppy down once I get it going.

 

Gary

 

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af193/gdingy101/golddots.jpg

 

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af193/gdingy101/bluedots.jpg

[Snaggletooth]

Gary,

 

Got to follow this one. I have a set of Blue's I picked up as the train of thought in past posts seemed to be they were the best for our application.

 

Curious about the covers myself. Mine came without and can't seem to find any.

 

You thinking Brembos? Go radial! Six would be a bit extreme don't ya think or you concidering doing some stunting?

[skydoc_17]

Hey Gary,

Here's the skinny on the R1/R6 Calipers.

The pic of the "Gold Dot" calipers you posted are from a 1999 to 2001 R1. The piston sizes are 27MM front, 30MM rear. All 4 pistons are Aluminum, which increases the brake lever "feel" as apposed to the "Blue Dot" calipers which have the steel pistons. The Aluminum caliper pistons expand and contract much more than the steel caliper pistons, so they wear out the seal kits much faster. For this reason, I would say that the "Blue Dot" calipers are more dependable. (Longer lasting seals) The pic you have posted of the "Blue Dot" calipers are actually from a 1996 to 1999 FZ1000. (pre R1 Sport bike) This was a transitional time for Yamaha as far as the one piece progressive brake calipers goes. Yamaha was able to produce the one piece caliper body, but the "investment casting" technology was still very young, and you will notice that the right and left sides of the caliper fluid flow path are connected with the steel tube located on the end of the caliper. The plus side of this particular caliper is that the stock brake lines can be used as the connecting port is a "top loader" as apposed to the "side loader" R1 Calipers, but the down side is that tube on the end of the caliper body is very easy to damage. The same seal kits fit all three variations of these calipers. You will need TWO caliper Seal Kits for each caliper body for a rebuild.

One final note, "The Blue or Gold Dot" IS NOT REMOVABLE from the caliper body! To do a rebuild on these one piece calipers, the caliper pistons MUST be extracted from the INSIDE of the one piece caliper body. I have machined an extraction fixture to remove these pistons for the rebuild. If you use a pair of vice grips and damage the piston, the replacement pistons are $47.00 EACH! It also helps to have the hands of a 10 year old girl to do these rebuilds. I personally don't use the 1996 to 1999 FZ1000 calipers with the exposed tubes in the R1 Brake Swap because of the "Damage Factor" to the exposed tubes. I personally use the "Gold Dot" calipers on my 87'VR because I like the additional brake "Feel" and can rebuild them as needed. The BEST choice for the average VR owner is the "Blue Dot" R6 Brake Calipers with the steel caliper pistons. NONE of the R1/R6 Calipers come with the black plastic covers found on the old style two piece VR calipers. The "venting action" created by the absence of the caliper cover helps to cool the caliper body and decrease caliper fade.

If anyone has any other questions about the R1/R6 Brake Calipers, please feel free to PM me.

Earl

Edited April 16, 2011 by skydoc_17
Crayon Broke!

[PGunn]

Which set of the R1/R6 brakes is better?

 

The Gold dots or the Blue dots?

 

Which donor bike is better R1, R6, FJR?

 

I have seen some six piston calipers. Will these fit a 1st gen MKII?

 

The Blue dots appear to have different size pistons, the Gold dots appear the same size. Anyone know the piston diameters?

 

Do they make plastic pad covers for these? I didn't see them in the parts fiche.

 

I might put a set of these on while I am in there. Probably need to be able to slow this puppy down once I get it going.

 

Gary

 

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af193/gdingy101/golddots.jpg

 

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af193/gdingy101/bluedots.jpg

 

Here is the adapter I came up with for the Gen 2 using 6 pot Yamaha R1

[syscrusher]

Hey Gary,

Here's the skinny on the R1/R6 Calipers.

Earl

 

Nice write-up of the caliper choices.

My '93 is blue so the blue dots were a no-brainer.

I'm happy to see that I probably made a good technical choice as well as far as durability goes.

So if one wanted blue dots but also wanted aluminum pistons are they swappable?

[Great White]

YZF750SP came with 6 pot calipers that weren't radial mount:

 

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NTgyWDU3NQ==/z/-t0AAOSw-nZTosge/$_57.JPG

 

But they weren't monoblock design and they were on USD forks so no way of knowing if they mount up to the MKII forks other than to buy a set. The spread on teh mounting "ears" look pretty wide on them so anything would be a guess without actually fitting them.

 

But then again, the blue dots were also on USD forks so.....who knows?

 

I'm not even sure if they were sold in NA, but they were in the rest of the world.

 

They don't seem to go cheaply either....

 

Myself, I think I would stick with the blue dots. The 6 piston calipers of that era had their issues with warping brake discs fairly often. They're also going to to heavier than the monoblocks and the monoblock design (in theory) flexes less, gives better "feel" (when matched to the right MC) and is less susceptible to binding.

 

If I was looking for more braking, I'd be looking for a way to get 320 MM discs on there with the 4 piston monoblocks. More leverage, more braking power, less heat, less fade.

 

Then again, I just might have a set of 320 MM discs lurking around in the shadows somewhere that just might possibly fit on the R6 front wheel I have on the way......

 

Edited October 26, 2015 by Great White

[skydoc_17]

Hey Sys,

The "Gold Dot" Aluminum Pistons are in fact swappable with the steel pistons of the "Blue Dot" R6 Calipers of the 1999 to 2001 vintage. As far as running larger diameter rotors on a MKII First Gen. or a Second Gen. the caliper location would prohibit that, BUT if you were going to make an adaptor mount for a set of 6 piston "Radial" Calipers, then you can run any diameter rotor that would bolt up to the wheel hub because you will be creating the caliper placement location with the adaptor mount. A word of warning here, "how much braking is too much" would be the threshold you would be teetering on with 6 piston calipers and R1 or VMAX rotors. I am not saying it can't be controlled, but if you have ever had a front wheel lock up then you will understand what I am talking about here. Sport bike de-acceleration from high speeds is a useful tool, throwing yourself over the handlebars at 30 MPH in a "panic stop" is something else entirely.

Earl

[Great White]

I'm kind of a different mind with the "too much brake" thing.

 

For me, you can never have too much. It's more about knowing how to use it. You can wash out the front end on nearly any bike with the stock brakes (well, maybe not so much front drums!).

 

I guess it depends on the individual and their abilities/experience. I'm programmed to use the brakes to their limit without thinking about it. Comes from racing in my early years I think. Panic stops are anything but "panic stops" for me. No grabbing, just progressive application until I "sense" the front tire at it's limit of grip. I don't think I could wash the front end out if I tried. I'd end up backing out of the lever just before lock up without thinking about it because my muscle memory would just do it. Pretty sure it would have to be hitting sand or something slick while already under braking to wash the front end out.

 

For my build if I do go 320 mm rotors (really want to), I'll have to spin up an adapter plate for the rotor/rim interface and then brackets for the calipers so no worries on "making it fit". No big deal, I've built the same type of thing before for both cars and bikes. Lathe and mill are standing by....

 

I have thought about just swapping the entire front assembly for a more modern unit with the wheel, rotors, brakes that will do the job I want, but the modern front ends are all too "short" to just fit on the front end of the V. They all need things like tube extenders or drop top fork clamps. Those things honestly don't give me a good feeling.

 

I'm much more comfortable with a couple adapter brackets for the brakes, which are a proven method over time.

 

Edited October 27, 2015 by Great White

[Condor]

I swapped out the forks when I did my '83. Used a set off an '86. I didn't change anything else. The difference between the OEM's and the blue dots was amazing. The OEM lever would go to the grip without locking up, and I had to always hit the rear if I wanted to get serious. With the Blue Dots they had the ability to lock up the front wheel if you wanted to, and that was still using the right rotor only if you needed to grab a fist full. Kind of a power brake feel to the thing. Two fingers were all you needed after the swap. BTW progressives.

[DragonRider]

I have a set of the Gold calipers on my 93 Royale Trike, and a set of the Blue on my 87, both have been delinked, but both have a different feel to them. The Gold are very good at stopping my trike, but the Blues dont seem to do the same job. New pads were installed when the conversions were made, so I know the pads are good, in fact the pads on the Blue are at least 2 years newer than those on the 87.