CaptainJoe Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 Ed, a MARINE CORP friend of mine ask what my opinion of a ultralite name of Challenger made in Canada was. To be entirely fair, in GA, ultralights are generally frowned upon. My impression is the the alerion and rudder is inadaqiate and the placement of the 40 hp. rotax engine is also asking for trouble. The placenment of the engie, screws up the CG of the aircraft. Under full power, It also overides the up motion of the yoke which under emergency power on could be detrimental to your health. Since it doesn't have alerions, "flaperions" , a moderate to heavy cross wind cannot be corrected. MaxVE is 100 mph? Sorry but if your practicin stalls and spin adversion that ain't gonna cut it. Engin failures require immediate push overs to avoid flat spins due to placement of engine. Anybody have one of these ? Am I being overly bias?
friesman Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 ultralights are frowned upon here too, but there are plenty around and a couple of guys every year die using them.( but still less than snowmobile and motorcycle deaths) But I cant give you any specific info on them. Brian
skydoc_17 Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 People say, "that VR's and RSV's are top heavy"! I guess it's all relative. Thrill seekers get their thrills with what ever they have handy. I'm sure that anyone could find faults with any machine on the planet, but just about the time they do, someone else will "do somersaults" with that same machine. "One man's pig is another man's prize". Earl
Flyinfool Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 The challenger has been around and popular for a long, long time. If it was as dangerous as all that it would have been out of favor and/or business a long time ago.
Guest Swifty Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 ...never had one, but have been up in one and taken the controls, I have been PIC in 4 other types of ultralights, and I know buddies who swear by the ones that they own...all of them have bigger engines than the 40hp. Personally, I never liked getting in and out of them. Guru up here runs this website... http://www.challenger.ca/ which is a zoo to get around but it makes it a lot of fun to explore...just like the skies in an ultralight, I guess.
flb_78 Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 The definition of Ultralight is very different between Canada and America. I was actually looking at some online today.
friesman Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 Wow that Challenger doesnt look like any ultralight ive ever seen, most around here look like motorized kites or parasail. That looks like a full fledged aircraft. Brian
Wizard765 Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 A couple of things I like about the challenger. Visibility from the cockpit is awsome. They can be fitted with wheels, floats or skis. Around this neck of the woods the most popular time to fly is in the winter. Every lake and river is a runway. Lift is excellent. The cabin can be heated. Another ultralight that I like is the Kitfox.
CaptainJoe Posted March 31, 2011 Author Posted March 31, 2011 I guess I'm just more comfortable with the front mounted engines like the old army ultralite trainers. wizard765, have you ever flown one ? If so how did it handle +10 mph crosswind landings? Swifty, were they front mount engines? If so how did it handle +10 mph crosswind landings?
Wizard765 Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 There was a time that I was considering getting into flying. I did some research and took the idea seriously. What I wanted was a two seater with some carrying capacity. During the time I took in some flights (not as pilot) and asked lots of questions. So I've been in a challenger but didn't fly it myself. Once I was done the research it came down to two planes. The Challenger or the Kitfox. The Kitfox I did get to fly. A friend of mine has a Piper Cub and I've flown that as well. The Kitfox flew almost exactly like the Cub and I really liked it's characteristics. The Challenger FELT right but again I wasn't the pilot. What was cool was we were in one with amphibian floats. We took off from the airport in Bracebridge ON. and landed at one point on a small lake near Muskoka. My pilot raved about the plane. He obviously loved it. There was a club (probably still it) and they flew together regularly. He liked winter flying the best and I doubt anyone would enjoy flying the Kitfox in the winter.
Guest Swifty Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 Swifty, were they front mount engines? ...not the Challengers I'm talkin about. Engines on every Challenger I've seen are mounted behind the wing and outfitted with pusher props.
CaptainJoe Posted March 31, 2011 Author Posted March 31, 2011 "I have been PIC in 4 other types of ultralights" Were those, front mounted engine ultralights? Yes, I know the challenger is mounted behind the wing. The other ultralights you are talkin about were probably 90 hp front mounted rotax engines. which of the different motor placements did you feel most comfortable with?
Guest Swifty Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 "I have been PIC in 4 other types of ultralights" Were those, front mounted engine ultralights? Yes, I know the challenger is mounted behind the wing. The other ultralights you are talkin about were probably 90 hp front mounted rotax engines. which of the different motor placements did you feel most comfortable with? oh, sorry, now I got ya.... Tierra, Quicksilver, CGS Hawk...all configured similarly to the Challenger. The Zenith 601 is the front engine one, and the one I have the most hours in. I think that would fall under the light sport class in the USA now. The 601 is obviously faster than the others, by far the best in cross wind landings, but what I didn't like was that the tail area wasn't big enough, yawing all over the place in mild turbulence on warm days, enough to make passengers sick. I'm aware of the recent crashes and arguments on whether it was due to the design or pilots flying it beyond design limits. One design that I've been following most recently is the Belight, spent a lot of time at Oshkosh last summer talking to designer James Wiebe and attending his seminars...it's a very light, simple, front engine design might be worth checking out....it's kind of expensive though...he's got a carbon fiber spar and other parts that are jacking up the costs. He also designs his own line of LED instruments that really save on electrical load.
kenw Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 Just my 2 cents, but how about those ultralite piper cub look alikes. Sure does look a lot prettier and the engines in the right place!
CaptainJoe Posted April 1, 2011 Author Posted April 1, 2011 Kenw, I loved to fly the piper cherokee. whats the name of these look alikes? I'll have to check on the rental rates for GA aircraft. That way the maintainence, inspections, hangar fees, insurance...etc... is someone elses headache. It was $65 hr. fuel included. Even if you could pick up a ultralight for 15 grand you have to deal with the other costs... Thanks guys for all your input!
Flyinfool Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 At my local FBO, rental on a C152 is $79/hr wet and a C172SP is $115/hr wet. Unfortunately, unless I am flying alone the 152 is overweight with any useful amount of fuel on board. FWIW I know of a local Piper Cherokee for sale that is at mid time on the engine asking $25K. Owner permanently lost medical.
kenw Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 I was part owner in a cherokee for awhile, Than started flying a taylorcraft. It was not as fast, but the taildragger sure is a lot more bang for your buck! Drew a crowd of lookers no matter where I went--- no electric, no radios and hand prop!!!!! I found this site on the EAA pages, take a look at these http://www.fisherflying.com Kenw
Guest Swifty Posted April 3, 2011 Posted April 3, 2011 ...speaking of EAA... http://www.eaa.org/news/2011/2011-04-01_aftermath.asp
Freebird Posted April 3, 2011 Posted April 3, 2011 You guys are making me wish I had finished my lessons. I had about 14 hours in a Cessna 150 but that was 25 years ago. Always wish I had finished but was living in a small town with one instructor and he would completely fail to even show up about 50% of the time. I really did enjoy flying though.
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