FLHTCU to 1st Gen VR Comparison

[rentalguy1]

I've read through midrsv's thread comparing the GL1800 to the VR and thought maybe it would help some that may be on the fence over a trade for a HD. I traded my 1988 VR and 2007 Sportster Custom for a 2011 HD FLHTCU (Ultra Classic Electra Glide) two weeks ago, and there are some pretty big differences in the two. I've only ridden about 200 miles (odometer read 11 miles when I signed the papers) on the Harley, but here is what I have noticed so far:

 

At a Glance

While the Venture is a good looking bike, it is distinctively 1980's. The lines and sharp angles, combined with "futuristic" (for the times) design of the dash panel, these bikes scream "Knight Rider." Of course, these bikes are 22+ years old, and the majority of them show their age. Mine did as well, but unless you were very close to it, or looking for blemishes, you wouldn't have noticed them. Overall, it was a older bike that I was proud to own.

 

The Ultra is brand spanking new, and you can tell. There are no blemishes, and it has that new bike smell. Make that "were no blemishes." On the second ride, I didn't realize the muzzle of my 1911 was sticking out and it made a small scuff on the top of the seat. The paint is a sharper color than the VR, but I don't think the quality and craftsmanship are any better. Their is a lot to be said about the classic look of the bat wing fairing and passing lamps, though. I guess that is why the majority of other manufacturers have been copying them for a decade or more.

 

Ergonomically Speaking

My first few rides on the Yamaha were a bit tedious, but I had gotten very comfortable on the VR in the short time I owned it. I had been riding all my life, but had never even sat on a touring bike until I bought this one. The handlebars were very comfortable, and the gauges were easy to identify and read. If the sun was in the right place, though, you could get a slight glare on the instruments. The only thing I ever found a bit awkward was operating the cruise control. The remote for the radio system, and the PTT button for the intercom were both perfectly positioned, though. Both saw a lot of usage on my bike.

 

The Ultra has a more classic design, and that makes the instruments much easier to read for me. There are no dummy lights on this bike, and this makes the dash look less cluttered. Honestly, though, a gear indicator would be nice for the six speed tranny. It does have a little "6" on the speedometer, at least. The handlebars are a more classic design, and a tad wider than the VR. This may make a difference for some, but not to me. The stock grips are more comfortable to me, but then again they are new. While the activation switch for the cruise control is no better or worse than the VR, the remaining controls are more awkward to me. They seem to be positioned too close to the grip to operate comfortably with the thumb, and I don't think there is a cancel button.

 

Power is Everything

This is a "apples and oranges" comparison, since they are totally different engines. The numbers that I have found are 97HP for the V4 and 95HP for the V twin. So, even though the Ultra has a extra 294cc's, the VR makes more power. Of course these are both theoretical numbers, measured at the crank. Dyno results for the Twin Cam 96B show 63HP at the rear wheel. I have no idea what the numbers are for the V4. I do know what the "butt dyno" has to say though, and that is the V4 is quicker, but the V twin has more torque.

 

The roll on response of the 96B TC is much quicker than the V4, especially in a higher gear at highway speeds. I'm going to guess that this is due to the fact that the new bike is fuel injected rather than quad carbed. While this makes for quicker and sharper throttle response, and removes the need to choke the crap out of a cold bike, it does present it's own set of problems. This mostly comes in to play for the tinkerer, who likes to tune their bike periodically. It can still be done on the Harley, but requires a computer to do so. The cost for repairs is much higher as well.

 

The exhaust setup on the VR is, of course, dual two-into-ones, and the HD has true duals. The latter means a less stifled engine. The V4 engine has that common, metric bike sound. Nothing special about it, unless that constant puff from a slightly out of tune carb qualifies. The 96B has that distinctive Harley sound. Not so much out of the box. The EPA has our bikes so over-regulated these days that even a big twin HD sounds like a Singer sewing machine from the factory. A set of 3.5" Rinehart slip-ons woke her right up, though. I know many criticize the MOCO for this and that, but if you don't like the sound of Harley Davidson at idle, then you seriously need to have your testosterone levels checked.

 

Where the Rubber Meets the Road

When talking about a touring bike, the following is where it's at; comfort and handling. Both of these bikes are top notch in their element. Even at 22 years old, my VR was super comfortable. With a seat height of 30.9", the VR is nearly 2" taller than the HD. As a rider that is on the shorter side of average at 5'9", with short legs (30" inseam), both are a bit hairy when at a stop. The VR, though, had front and rear air shocks that were super easily adjustable. The rider can set up the height of the bike before startup, and have no worries about stopping on the ride. The Harley is adjustable in the rear, but it is a much more involves process that requires tools to do so. Of course, lowering the suspension means diminishing the ride quality to some degree, so I ended up just dealing with the tip-toe stopping on both.

 

In the area of balance, the HD wins hands down. The very first thing I noticed about the Yamaha was that it liked to walk at slow speeds, and even a little bit at cruising speed. A fork brace lessened this problem at cruise, but you just had to learn to handle the beast in a parking lot. Neither of these is a issue on the Harley. Once it starts moving you can almost let go of the handlebars.

 

Both have comfortable stock seat configurations, but the seat seems much wider on the Ultra. This can get uncomfortable for a rider with short legs, but can be corrected by whipping out the checkbook.My son claims the passenger seating is better on the HD, even though he gave up armrests on the new bike. The floorboards for the rider are much more comfortable than the oversized pegs on the VR, and the riding position seems to be slightly more stretched out on the Harley.

 

Creature Comforts

Hey, it's a touring bike, it's supposed to have all the bells and whistles. If I wanted a hard core bike I would have kept the Sporty. Both bikes have about the same amount of storage capacity. The key difference here is in the operation of the saddlebags and trunk. The saddlebag lids on the VR have to come all the way off for access, where the HD lids are hinged and open to the outside, so you can handle your stuff without looking for a place to store your lids. The hard bags on the HD are very easily removed for access to the rear wheel and exhaust as well. The trunk on the HD opens to the side, meaning the passenger doesn't have to get off the bike in order to access your gear.

 

It's hard to compare the electronics on the two bikes, because of the new technology that exists now. I can say that the speakers were shot on my VR. I ended up listening to the radio through the headset, which may as well have been someone singing into a tin can. The Harmon Kardon sound system on the HD is worlds above the Yamaha system. It still has the intercom, the CB, and the AM/FM tuner, but also adds in a weather band, a single disc CD player, and a auxiliary input for a IPod/MP3 player. The front speakers are larger than the VR, and there is a set of rear speakers of the same size. The audio controls are actually easier to access than the remote on the VR was. Also, the intercom is VOX, which is nice, but can cause some problems with the exhaust note of the V Twin. The passenger controls are split up on the HD, with some on each side of the tour pak.

 

Overall Impression

I'm still finding it difficult to compare these two bike to each other. The age difference, and the difference in the new technology just make them too different, even though they are similar in a lot ways. The older Yamaha was a little quicker, and maybe even a little more comfortable, but I was interested in a touring bike to take longer rides on in comfort. That, to me, really means having all the bells and whistles operating the way they are supposed to, in addition to a bike that is mechanically reliable without having to throw a lot of money at.

 

While I considered throwing some money at the Yamaha, it dawned on me that no matter how well maintained it might be, it is still a 22+ year old bike with 50,000 miles on the frame and engine. It was also becoming difficult to find parts for since there weren't a lot of them made to begin with. Being a skin flint at heart, I had a very hard time justifying the $23,500 price tag on the new bike. I still have a hard time with that, even though I know I can afford it. It all boils down to each rider has to have what they want, as much as what they need.

 

Hope this helps a bit, and I will try to add to it as I ride the new bike more. I know there is a lot that I have missed here, so if there is a question I will do my best to answer it.

[SilvrT]

Interesting writeup...thanks. Very hard to compare 2 bikes that are 22 years apart, regardless of brand especially when one of them is brand new.

[Tom]

It is truely about what you want to ride. Ive had numerous and loved them all but never found the "Perfect"bike. All of them I have tweaked somewhat. HD is a nice bike.

[etcswjoe]

I like the Ultra for shorter and solo trips, the RSV is better for riding two up since both my wife and I are large folks. The electronics on the Ultra are more conveniently located for me. Storage on the RSV is a little more convenient in my opinion I just think the Ultras are awkward. Slow speed handling on the Ultra is better, however I like the RSV in the curves better.

 

Now if you are going to just ride purely for pleasure and twistys I would say a Heritage Softail is the way to go.

[hilligan]

I had a '92 Ultra Classic and loved it. Sold it after I broke my back in '01. Through the miracles of modern medicine and the grace of a forgiving God I got back on my feet a few years ago. I wanted another road bike and began shopping. Hmmmmm.... $20K+ for a Harley or $1000 for an '83 Venture. No contest.

 

The handling of the two bikes is completely different. When I took the Venture for it's first ride I was expecting Harley handling .... OOPS! .... That got my heart pumping. But I am kinda getting used to it now.

 

I reckon I am kind of a bike sl*t. I don't care what you ride, didn't care when I was riding Harleys. It's all about enjoying the ride, the wind, the journey, the sights, and the amigos you meet along the way.

 

Enjoy! And if you ever get close to The San Luis Valley, holler and I'll buy you breakfast.

[philmartin]

Nice comparison, RentalGuy. I just went from a 2001 RSV to a 2011 Road Glide Ultra. You had a fixed fairing on your First Gen. Did you try the Road Glide?

I only have 400 miles on the HD.

I'm 5'8" 175 lbs.

Compared to the RSV... HD much easier to handle in low speeds, I can flat foot, love the sound system, CD PLAYER, iPod integrated into the radio controls, the fixed fairing cuts through the wind, its great to have gauges, abs brakes, fuel injected, NO WHINE, security system and the parts and accessory book is thicker than our local yellow pages book.

The RSV is so much smoother on the highway, loved the V4 hated THE WHINE, much more room for my wife. Just couldn't wait for a newly designed RSV.

I wanted a bike that had the comfort and features of my venture but fit me more like my Road Star.

[Yammer Dan]

My last Hardley was a 56 Pan. Complete rigid frame no shocks. Extended 16 inches raked 47 degrees. Hard to compare that to my 1st Gen. I rode that thing to Daytona in the early 70's. Didn't think I would ever walk normal again. Come to think of it I don't think I do.

[BuckShot]

I put 7000 miles on my 09 Ultra last yr and 4000 on my 86 VR. I have never had a problem with low speed handleing on either. I feel the throttle response at speed is about the same, but the VR will outrun the Ultra thru the gears. Handlebar controls are perfect on the Ultra, but I do hit the wrong button once in a while ( problably my old age forgetting which button to hit)

I put a SUNDOWNER seat from harley on my Ultra. Its a little narrower and sits you a little lower. The passenger pillon is a little narrower and flat. My wife likes the new seat better.

I will say that my VR handles the curves better, but you can lay these bikes over alot.

The VR is more nimble than the Ultra.

These are two completely different bikes and hard to compare. The Harley is defenetly a crusier with the motor to make it fun. And thats what its about----FUN

[MasterGuns]

I, too, own one of each, an 86 VR and an 01 Ultra and I ride them both frequently. Can't add much to the above comparisons. Will admit the 86 is much faster speed wise but the HD's torgue is far superior; just turn the throttle in any gear off you go; no need for downshifting. I also love the fuel injection comparied to the carbs on the VR. The 86 is much better handling through the twisties but the Ultra isn't far behind. I have dragged the floorboards often on the Ultra, haven't had anything on the VR drag the payment on the VR. The audio system on the Harley is far superior not only when compared to our antigues lst Editions but also the 2d Editions. Not only is the sound better when coming through the speakers but in the headsets as well and rightfully so (8 watts compared to 40). Both are smooth and I can tell which one is smoother at any speed but at idle, the HD might rattle your filings loose. Mine may be rougher at idle due to special cams I installed about 8 months ago. I have tried all sorts of exhaust systems on the VR, from drilled out stock mufflers, to Cobra, Jardine, etc and if you are trying to get your four banger to sound like a Harley, save your money and time, just impossibe.

 

I really love both my bikes, the 86 Yamaha and the 01 Ultra and would never mock either one. They are both great bikes. I will never let go of my 86 but am trying to work deal with the dealer and trying to convince my lovely wife that I truly deserve a 2011 CVO Sreamin Eagle Ultra Classic; only $40K but............

[BuckShot]

I really love both my bikes, the 86 Yamaha and the 01 Ultra and would never mock either one. They are both great bikes. I will never let go of my 86 but am trying to work deal with the dealer and trying to convince my lovely wife that I truly deserve a 2011 CVO Sreamin Eagle Ultra Classic; only $40K but............

 

 

Let her pick the color. Hey---it might help

[naturbar]

"I've read through midrsv's thread comparing the GL1800 to the VR and thought maybe it would help some that may be on the fence over a trade for a HD. I traded my 1988 VR and 2007 Sportster Custom for a 2011 HD FLHTCU (Ultra Classic Electra Glide) two weeks ago, and there are some pretty big differences in the two. I've only ridden about 200 miles (odometer read 11 miles when I signed the papers) on the Harley, but here is what I have noticed so far:".........

 

 

isn't 200 miles about a years worth of riding on a Harley???......................... just kidding but i do have a friend who has $60K tied up in his Harley and maybe rides several hundred a year....best of luck with the new bike and enjoy ....

[SilvrT]

isn't 200 miles about a years worth of riding on a Harley???......................... just kidding but i do have a friend who has $60K tied up in his Harley and maybe rides several hundred a year..

 

My son & his buddy both bought new Harley's in 2003. Son bought a 1200 Sportster and his buddy bought a Road King. His buddy also added appx 10 grand worth of bling. Since then, he's ridden it maybe 5,000 kilometers. It sits in his living room as an ornament mostly. LOL