the radiation has made it to Texas

[Rocket]

Does this mean my neighbors are going to look even weirdier than they do now????

 

Only, if they start looking like Cupcake or Black Owl........... :rotf:

[Black Owl]

Listening is one thing.... but believing is on a whole other plain....

Edited March 18, 2011 by Black Owl

[zooer]

Listening is one thing.... but believing is on a whole over plain....

Run run run!!!. But leave the women in case your wrong and I'll stay here and uuuuh errrrr, well you know, look after them for you.

[Drreb]

Tight fitting miniskirts I can vote for that if they are on attractive ladies that is....

[ashley9187]

Medical equipment that produces radiation, Nothing compared the the radiation you get just by being in a commercial airliner at between 30,000 and 45,000 ft. shielded by aluminum!!!

 

Rick A.

 

 

[Yammer Dan]

Only, if they start looking like Cupcake or Black Owl........... :rotf:

 

 

 

They ain't gonna be in Miniskirts are they??? Don't know if I could take that....

[Black Owl]

They ain't gonna be in Miniskirts are they??? Don't know if I could take that....

 

Don't knock it 'til yah tried it.....

And while we're on the subject, I have come up with the solution to the radiation problem.

Really. so simple I can understand how our entity which can not be named on this site whiz kids never thought of it.

There are thousands of wind turbines out in California. All we need to do is reverse the blades, and start blowing the radiation back out to sea.

Now you know why I make the big bucks.....

[Snarley Bill]

it breaks my heart when i see the fate of the japenese people who have totally lost every thing that they have accomplished in their life, and the loss of their loved ones and family members. it makes me realize how lucky i am to have the good life i have been blessed with. the radiation danger is the last thing on my mind. the media hype is totally out of hand.

[LilBeaver]

it breaks my heart when i see the fate of the japenese people who have totally lost every thing that they have accomplished in their life, and the loss of their loved ones and family members. it makes me realize how lucky i am to have the good life i have been blessed with. the radiation danger is the last thing on my mind. the media hype is totally out of hand.

 

Well put - with all of the points.

 

Oh? Then what about the radiation cloud headed for southern California?

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/17/science/17plume.html?_r=1&hp

 

I don't know what 'science advisors' they got their info from but either the author of the story grossly misunderstood the explanations that were given to him, the facts were grossly misconstrued or the 'scientists' that the author consulted with are not as up as they should be on the topic. I will explain more below.

 

NO NO you don't get it.

If it all boils away then it is just gone...

 

I realize you were just being funny but there is more truth to this than you may realize.

 

A little background on myself and my qualifications here then a brief introduction to radiation and the REALITY of the situation with respect to the nuclear sources in Japan. I am an experimental physicist currently working in the field of condensed matter. A result of the specific type of research I am working on requires that I use beamlines from particle accelerators (Cyclotrons, synchrotrons) as well as a nuclear reactors. In order to safely work around this equipment we all must have a good working understanding of the risks involved and how to manage them. Radiation is actually rather well understood (by scientists) and can be broken down into some very elementary parts and concepts. Unfortunately it is quite rare that media such as the news, Sci-Fi, TV programs or movies actually take the time to understand 'radiation' before they start capitalizing on the fact that they can throw that word around and get a big response out of people that either don't understand it, have a warped or incomplete understanding of it.

Just like lighting a campfire, getting on a motorcycle, going for a walk or any other standard activities have their risks; working in or around an environment that contains a higher than normal concentration of radioactive materials requires some special care but most importantly a good understanding of what it is that can be problematic. For example I suspect that almost all of us would agree that grabbing a red glowing log from a fire that has been burning for several hours may be hot when you touch it, but if you understand what you are doing, think ahead and put on fire gloves or use the proper handling tools you can move that log around with no problems such as burning your hands.

 

Radiation 101:

 

All matter beyond that of elementary particles are made up of atoms which in them selves contain two parts; the positively charged core (nucleus) and the negatively charged exterior 'shell/cloud' comprised of electrons. Electrons are considered to be an 'elementary' particle; meaning that it is the smallest entity and there are no 'constituent' particles 'inside' the electron as it IS as small as it gets (in terms of stable particles that can exist on their own; that is, ignore quarks for now). The nucleus is made up of smaller particles that are within this 'hard sphere' of confinement containing protons and neutrons. As just about anything in nature, there is a natural force that works to essentially stabilize the nucleus (by lowering the energy as much as possible). When nuclei are in the most stable state, nothing really interesting happens as they are content the way they are. For an unstable nuclei, the internal forces work to get to the stable state; in doing this excess quanta of energy may be bled off or the nuclei may emit a particle. This emitted energy [atomic] or the emitted particles is what is known as radiation.

 

Ionizing and non-ionizing radiation are the two most common types of radiation. Radiation that contains sufficient (and appropriate) energy to strip an electron from another atom thereby creating an 'ion' (~loosely speaking an atom with a net charge) is known as ionizing radiation. Radiation that does NOT contain the appropriate amount of energy to make these ions is known as non-ionizing radiation. Some common examples of each are:

Ionizing radiation: alpha particles, beta particles, gamma rays, x-rays and neutrons

Non-ionizing radiation: microwaves, radio waves, visible light, lasers, etc.

Both types of radiation have their own risks associated with interacting with other matter and some are greater than others.

 

I will now specifically discuss some of the particles, properties and the risks associated with each (one could probably skip this section without prohibiting the further understanding of the content of the rest of the post).

Alpha particles tend to have a large mass, have two neutrons, two protons and no electrons. That is, they tend to be particles emitted from the nucleus of an atom that contain a high charge. Due to their physical characteristics, the alpha particle has a very limited penetration depth and can only really go about 1-2 inches in air. Alpha particles are NOT considered to be hazardous from an external radiation standpoint since they are easily stopped by the outermost dead layer of skin (or clothing) on a person. They are, however, a pretty severe INTERNAL hazard as if ingested can do a lot of damage if in close contact to body tissue (due to the fact that they deposit a large amount of energy in a very small space).

 

Beta particles are very similar to electrons and have a charge of either + or - that of an electron. Positrons (positively charged beta particles) are considered to be anitmater and when combined with an electron the pair goes through a process known as 'pair annihilation' which results in a produced gamma ray. Beta particles have a mean travel distance of about 10 feet in air and only a few millimeters in skin (but those numbers vary greatly depending on the energy level of the initial beta particle).

Beta particles can be particularly hazardous if inhaled or ingested or exposed to the soft tissue such as eyes or skin.

 

Gamma rays and x-ray radiation contains no electrical charge and is electromagnetic in nature. In air, these can travel several hundred feet because they contain no charge or mass. Both Gamma and x-ray radiation is considered as an external hazard and ones whole body could be exposed to it.

 

Neutron radiation is simply that; radiation that is a result of the neutrons being ejected from a nucleus. Neutrons can travel quite well through air and due to its properties is best shielded by matter containing a high concentration of Hydrogen (ie. water).

Neutrons in themselves are not really what is problematic, it is their interaction with the constituents in human tissue that could cause problems (to people anyways). Not ALL neutrons are 'dangerous' as there is a vast energy range of neutrons and they are classified accordingly. The neutrons in the 'thermal neutron range' (0.025-0.5 eV) are the ones that pose the highest hazard to humans as in this range they can be 1) captured by Hydrogen and released in the form of a deuteron and a gamma ray which then interacts to produce electrons that leave an ionization track along the path of which they move (which is not good for you or your tissue) 2) capture in the nitrogen in your system which in-turn emits a proton that then interacts with your system

Bottom line: If the neutron has sufficient energy it may interact with the conttuents of the tissue and scatter off the hydrogen nuclei, which then transfers a significant amount of energy to the Hydrogen that was otherwise content where it was, and potentially breaking the Hydrogen free from whatever it was attached to in the system. This process usually occurs within about 5cm after entering a hydrogen-rich environment (such as your body) and on average has ~20 interactions before being captured/stopped.

 

The Nuclear Reactor to generate electrical power

I will keep this short enough to get the relevant point across with respect to the current situation. To generate electricity in almost any form (except for solar) one uses electromagnetic induction to induce current in wires by creating a time varying magnetic field across a coil of wires thereby generating current. The stator on our motorcycles do this very same thing; there is a magnet that spins inside a coil of wire which generates electricity. In commercial power generation for consumption by the public the power industry relies on the same concept, just scaled up for the appropriate amount of power generation. That is they use bigger coils, more wire and bigger magnets. The trick is to find the most efficient way to turn the apparatus that either moves the magnet or the coil of wire. Coal and nuclear both rely on steam to turn large turbines that are essentially connected to these big magnets in the generators to generate the electricity. Coal is obviously burned to heat the water (think of it like a big kettle under a turbine). Nuclear power generation, in the very simple picture, relies on the same basic principle: Heat water to make steam to turn a turbine. The method used to heat the water is much different than smoldering coal; that is it is the process of nuclear fission. Fission is the process of an unstable nucleus splitting into two (or more) smaller nuclei. This process releases a huge amount of energy which is then absorbed by the water thereby heating it up. "Fuel rods" containing such unstable nuclei are the primary constituents in the ractors and really where all of the good stuff happens.

Once these fuel rods use up the fissionable material inside (practically speaking, once they are producing below a particular level) they are considered to be 'spent' and are replaced by 'fresh ones' and then should be stored appropriately until they are no longer 'active'. An appropriate way to store these 'spent rods' (whether they are metal-oxides, actinides, uranium dioxides or what have you) is to basically keep them cool enough to moderate the ongoing fission until it basically 'runs out of gas'.

 

This brings us to what is going on right now in Japan.

 

It is my understanding (Multiple BBC news sources, etc) that one of the spent rod storage pool facilities was rather severely damaged by the earthquake/tsunami which knocked out the cooling system for the pools themselves. What this means is that if the pools are not kept cool, the water that surrounds the rods would continue to heat up (and of course vaporize) and without the active cooling system to cool and replenish the water supply the spent fuel rods may be allowed to continually heat up until the oxidized surface of the MOX rods that they are using actually catch fire do to the heat generated in the rods themselves. This is VERY VERY VERY much different than the Chernobyl disaster because it is simply the spent rods and the water that surrounds them that is heating up instead of a full blown melt-down/explosion/event that released a huge amount of fissionable materials into the atmosphere.

 

Spent rods contain nuclei that are no longer undergoing the fission process but primarily going through a 'beta decay' process which is doing the majority of the heat generation. This 'beta decay' process is aptly named for the process of which produces beta particles.

The Point

The water that is evaporating from these spent rod storage pools is dangerous in the sense that if the rods' oxide layers catch fire (due to lack of cooling) there will be a high concentration of what the materials that the rods contain. Now, recall that beta particles penetrate air on average of 10 feet or so. This distance is, of course, a probability distribution so yes, some will go A LOT further than 10 feet and a lot more will travel much less than 10 feet. Radiation from beta particles as an external hazard is not nearly as dangerous as it is an internal hazard. That is if inhaled or ingested it will to much more harm to your body than it would if just exposed to it externally. So the likelihood of a 'radioactive cloud' coming all the way across the ocean and bombarding the western shores of the U.S. is preposterous UNLESS there is something more than just these spent rod storage pools that has a problem; even then, the likely hood of something making its way all the way across the ocean without decaying to its much less harmful parts is quite slim. Quite frankly, even people that are nearby are probably quite safe so long as they don't drink or eat anything that has been directly exposed to this beta radiation until the particles have had a chance to continue the natural decay process and get to a state that is not harmful to our soft tissue.

 

It is very unfortunate that the U.S. media has reported on this matter the way they have as it is my opinion that they could have done a much better job of delivering a more useful, informative and factually accurate report on the events related to the nuclear plant in Japan. That however, is another debate for a different place and time.

 

I hope that this is somewhat informative to anyone that has read it and that if you have questions please don't hesitate to ask. I wrote this on the fly so hopefully I got all of MY facts straight too

 

Anyways, I'm going to go back to my lab and glow in the dark for a while .

[Flyinfool]

Well put - with all of the points.

 

 

 

Anyways, I'm going to go back to my lab and glow in the dark for a while .

 

You probably sprained a finger or two typing all of that.

What is scary is that I think I understood what you said.

Thanks

[Eck]

MyGoldwing was detected with radiation...

Its looking more and more like tupperware..

The rider is fine though.....just ask him...

[Black Owl]

Thanks for the edumucation. I too understood some of it. Particulary that part about "glow in the dark."

[friesman]

While I liked Ricks explanantion of what is happening in Japan, I found this expanation of radiation a bit easier to read and wrap my brain around.

 

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2010/08/bananas-are-naturally-radioactive/

 

Brian:banana:

Edited March 23, 2011 by friesman

[Guest Swifty]

That however, is another debate for a different place and time.

sign me up when you know the place and time.

[Squidley]

Only, if they start looking like Cupcake or Black Owl........... :rotf:

 

Easy there you crazy Canuck!

[GaryZ]

I hope that this is somewhat informative to anyone that has read it and that if you have questions please don't hesitate to ask. I wrote this on the fly so hopefully I got all of MY facts straight too

 

Anyways, I'm going to go back to my lab and glow in the dark for a while .

 

Fantastic explanation. Thank you.

Have you sent this to the wild-eyed media folks?

[Venturous Randy]

Thank you Lil Beaver for the very good explanation and to think that up to this point you were mostly thought of you as a "ladies man". Now we do know that you have enough sense to try to stay away fom them.

RandyA

[LilBeaver]

MyGoldwing was detected with radiation...

 

Its looking more and more like tupperware..

 

The rider is fine though.....just ask him...

Haha - You know I would ask 'him' but I hear the cellular device has a tendency to clean itself so I'm not sure I could get through.

 

Fantastic explanation. Thank you.

Have you sent this to the wild-eyed media folks?

Glad you enjoyed it.

As for sending it to the media - nope and I have no interest in that. I used to write for a newspaper and even the small scale newspaper didn't go for the 'real and factual' stories. The editors told me time and time again that 'no one wants to read THAT kind of news'. So oh well. What was I thinking, writing NEWS stories for the NEWSpaper. Needless to say, I did not dabble in that too long. I miss the writing and especially the photography, but Physics is really where I belong. As a bonus, I still get to write and publish papers.

[tcoop]

Radiation!??? Here in Utah its a health benifit!

 

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=14839130

 

:cool10:

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Japan radiation makes way to U.S.

 

http://usat.ly/hW4yr8

[Eck]

Yea...maybe...but I'll listen to anybody who is wearing a tight fitting mini skirt. Listen...smile...nod...look....

 

Don't knock it 'til yah tried it.....

 

 

 

Black Owl, I hope your not getting any ideas..............