Hey RandyA, Time to do second gear.

[fixit3546]

Not yet, the thrust washer for the shaft is coming in from Canada and will be here next week. If I had known it would take so long I think i would have asked Charlie to get it for me........................probably be in middle of next week.

[PEIslander]

Fixit,

 

I think what you're calling a thrust washer is actually a retainer. There should be 2 of these C shaped retainers holding the assembly together by fitting in grooves in the transmission shaft. Behind these is a flat thrust washer which also wears and should be replaced. I have just finished replacing mine and am waiting on gaskets assembling the engine. I am also trying to polish my case covers and hope to have er done and ready for Spring.

 

I have a extra washer which I can send you if you send me your address.

 

http://www.flatoutmotorcycles.com/fiche_section_detail.asp This link shows the parts. 5. is the thrust washer and 6 are the retainers although they are called Washers, special shape here.

 

This is a great thread and I've picked up some good tips while I do the same job. I have a couple of pictures to post when I get my laptop going again.

 

Good Luck:080402gudl_prv:

[fixit3546]

My Bad, it's called a special shape washer. item number "6" on the fiche for the middle drive gear.

[PEIslander]

Here are some pics from my second gear repair.

#1 is the worn thrust washer and retainers.

#2 is the second gear dogs after reshaping them and the gear that it mates with.

#3 is my version of a hydraulic press to disassemble the tranny shaft.

#4 shows the retainers in place

#5 is a wide angle view of my improvised press. "Canadian winters do strange things to the mind." We didn't have any snow this winter so I needed to use the tractor for something!

[fixit3546]

Today.

Today the last part finally arrived on a sloooow boat from Canada.

[PEIslander]

Fixit,

 

What a coincidence, My gaskets and seals and new metal water pump impeller arived this afternoon from Flatout Motorcycles in Indianapolis. I'll be taking some days off next week to start putting things back together.

 

I thought I'd get some comments on using my snowblower to separate the transmission shaft but I guess everyone must think I have thin skin.

 

putting things back together.

Rick

[fixit3546]

Good deal Rick, I'll probably take off Friday; but i'll start tonight after Church.

And, I liked the snow-blower press. I mean, if it works it beats going to buy a special tool that you will only use once. I made mine out of scrap iron and used all-thread.

[fixit3546]

I got the motor back together Thursday but found out too late that i didn't have an oilpan gasket. Friday I went and got the gasket and finished that.

( then I had to go Grocery shopping) Saturday I attempted to put it in by myself, Don't do that ! I was able to get my son home from wherever he was and we got it in.

 

The floor jack was just about useless. With me by myself.

 

Laying the bike over on the engine didn't work out for me. Others like that method.

 

We wound up getting it close with the floor jack then lifting it the rest of the way in by hand. It was easier manuvering it that way.

 

Incidentally, I have the rear sub frame and gas tank removed so stradling the frame to lift the engine was alot easier.

 

Now after making all the connections, It will not start. just poping and sputtering. I changed the plugs and ghecked the coil wiring and i did have #3 and #4 Crossed on the harness. Now I have low battery voltage and I hope that is all that is keeping it from starting. (Got to get me a real battery charger)

 

So i'm stuck waiting untill tomorraw evening.

[Venturous Randy]

Hey fixit, I am glad you are at least this far along. It is just a matter of working out a few bugs and you will have it running. I am waiting for that post where you tell us how you did a wide open throttle run thru second gear and it felt so good. That's the one I am waiting for.

RandyA

Hey, one more comment, do you still have the rear section off and if you do, how hard would it be to replace the rear motor mounts to solid mounts? I am thinking about taking my rear section off instead of removing the engine to replace the rear motor mounts. Do you think it could be done?

[fixit3546]

Hey fixit, I am glad you are at least this far along. It is just a matter of working out a few bugs and you will have it running. The starter is red hot, it is firing on all 4, getting gas. Just wont crank; but almost. I am waiting for that post where you tell us how you did a wide open throttle run thru second gear and it felt so good. Me too, in fact, I neeeed it. That's the one I am waiting for.

RandyA

Hey, one more comment, do you still have the rear section off and if you do, how hard would it be to replace the rear motor mounts to solid mounts? I am thinking about taking my rear section off instead of removing the engine to replace the rear motor mounts. Do you think it could be done? Probably not. taking the rear section and gas tank off only exposes the back bone of the frame but dosent remove it. I think you would have to pull it.

 

have to put words here so it will post.

[fixit3546]

I'm feeling kinda STUPID right now. Finally got it to start up, the problem was that the left side was not rinning, pipes were cold. the right side was hot. It had been spitting and misfiring the whole time i was trying to start it; but i couldnt see it being out of time because i hadn't touched anything with the timing. I thought maybe the valves had tightened up some how; but i just couldn't see it happening. I checked the coil wiring three times; but guess what, I had the left side backward ! I swaped the wires while it was running and it smoothed out and is now purring like a wild cat. A touch of the button and it fires to life. Oh I'm happy now!

 

I could not take it out on the road because it is still not together. But I cant get 2nd to pop out. I even pumped up the back brake and held it as well as i could and dumped the clutch with it in second gear, at about 5000 rpm and the back wheel broke free from the hold of the brake. I'm thinking i'm good to go now. cant wait to get it back together and give it a good running. problem now is that I've had it apart so long that now i'm having trouble finding all the parts.

[Yammer Dan]

Can't wait to hear how this one ends. I'm a little worried about remembering where everything goes on "Blue Beast ll" or Project bike. I have a lot of screws and plastic.

GOOD LUCK Fixit

[Guest timshosvt]

I'm feeling kinda STUPID right now. Finally got it to start up, the problem was that the left side was not rinning, pipes were cold. the right side was hot. It had been spitting and misfiring the whole time i was trying to start it; but i couldnt see it being out of time because i hadn't touched anything with the timing. I thought maybe the valves had tightened up some how; but i just couldn't see it happening. I checked the coil wiring three times; but guess what, I had the left side backward ! I swaped the wires while it was running and it smoothed out and is now purring like a wild cat. A touch of the button and it fires to life. Oh I'm happy now!

 

I could not take it out on the road because it is still not together. But I cant get 2nd to pop out. I even pumped up the back brake and held it as well as i could and dumped the clutch with it in second gear, at about 5000 rpm and the back wheel broke free from the hold of the brake. I'm thinking i'm good to go now. cant wait to get it back together and give it a good running. problem now is that I've had it apart so long that now i'm having trouble finding all the parts.

 

I'm right behind you. Did my headset (steering bearings) yesterday. Put a grease fitting in the head tube. Polished up the fork tubes a bit and am in the process of gathering parts for my third gear repair. Anyone who has done this type of work on this bike knows that......"you da man"

 

 

Tim

[Yammer Dan]

3rd gear repair?? I don't have that to look forward to do I??? Third is GO gear!!

[fixit3546]

This really sucks, I'm having trouble finding my windshield. I know I put it up where it wouldn't be damaged, Now i can't find it !

 

My son shares my shop with me, Says he hasn't seen it................Frustration sets in.

 

My signal lights don't work, Any ideas, The E-flashers work; but not the directionals.

 

On top of all that, I'm getting sick. took off work yesterday and stayed in bed all day, back to work today To do an internal audit of our ISO program and of a new company wide SOP, Sat in one spot pretty much all day.

 

When I went in to work today, i found out that i had told my boss yesterday morning that i needed sleep, forgot to tell him i was sick...........wonder why he was cold toward me all day ???

[Yammer Dan]

I think I remember having that problem a few years ago. Take the turn button apart and clean it. Be careful some little pieces in there I think, been a while since I done it.

[fixit3546]

YEEEEEEEEE HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

 

Second Gear does NOT slip any longer ! I could not get it to slip, And I tried.

 

Randy, am i the second to do this repair ? It does work for all you who need second gear work. And it need not be expensive.

 

Thank you randy! You are the Second Gear Man !!

 

Hey tim, Hows bout you point me in the direction of some good Stering Head posts. For some reason, I can bearly turn my handle bars now. Man, if it aint one thing it's ten more..............

[Guest timshosvt]

YEEEEEEEEE HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

 

Second Gear does NOT slip any longer ! I could not get it to slip, And I tried.

 

Randy, am i the second to do this repair ? It does work for all you who need second gear work. And it need not be expensive.

 

Thank you randy! You are the Second Gear Man !!

 

Hey tim, Hows bout you point me in the direction of some good Stering Head posts. For some reason, I can bearly turn my handle bars now. Man, if it aint one thing it's ten more..............

 

I've had loads of experience with bicycle headsets, but not much with motorcycles. Search for posts by Squeeze, as he has made some good points.

My steering bearing seemed rough with the front wheel off, and a bit notchy. There were slight marks on my races, but I could not palpate anything. The grease was dried and hard so that the bearings felt rough. Once cleaned and regreased, they seem just fine. I added a grease fitting, but I'm second guessing the location. Not sure if I can get a grease gun on it after it's all back together. I still have questions about how tight is too tight, etc. Perhaps someone will chime in?

I also found that there are no washers, just the two locknuts jammed together. The bike did not wobble when I had it out before the teardown, but I rode it less than 20 miles due to 3rd gear issues.

Speaking of which, I'm still tempted to try an undercut with the old gears and stick it back together, but everytime I think about the time to take it all back out again.......I haven't ordered parts yet.

[Venturous Randy]

Fixit, I am real glad you are getting it back together and it appears you have had good success with the undercut program. I have about 65,000 miles on mine since I did the undercut and even with pulling a camper and a lot of wide open 2nd gear runs I have never had another problem. I just wish I had put in a few more new parts, like the thrust washer, rather than just flip it over. But, when I did mine, I was winging alone. I was not aware of any Venture sites, plus I did not have a computer at the time anyway.

I have really tried to get more folks to take the plunge on fixing 2nd gear. I know a lot of folks are just not willing or able to put the kind of money in these old bikes that has been quoted to get this fixed. But as you said, "our way" is not that costly. It is a lot of work and would be a mechanical challenge to some, but it is really not that hard to do, and there are a lot of people on here that would help anyway they can.

It is a shame that so many of the early 1st gens have the second gear problem because these are one of the sweetest bikes that I have ever seen to go thru 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears wide open. I would love to see the smile on your face the first time you get the chance to do it!!!!

 

Tim, I have yet to understand the problem you are having with 3rd gear. Did you ever give us a good discription on what the bike is doing? If you did I have missed it.

RandyA

[Guest timshosvt]

Fixit, I am real glad you are getting it back together and it appears you have had good success with the undercut program. I have about 65,000 miles on mine since I did the undercut and even with pulling a camper and a lot of wide open 2nd gear runs I have never had another problem. I just wish I had put in a few more new parts, like the thrust washer, rather than just flip it over. But, when I did mine, I was winging alone. I was not aware of any Venture sites, plus I did not have a computer at the time anyway.

I have really tried to get more folks to take the plunge on fixing 2nd gear. I know a lot of folks are just not willing or able to put the kind of money in these old bikes that has been quoted to get this fixed. But as you said, "our way" is not that costly. It is a lot of work and would be a mechanical challenge to some, but it is really not that hard to do, and there are a lot of people on here that would help anyway they can.

It is a shame that so many of the early 1st gens have the second gear problem because these are one of the sweetest bikes that I have ever seen to go thru 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears wide open. I would love to see the smile on your face the first time you get the chance to do it!!!!

 

Tim, I have yet to understand the problem you are having with 3rd gear. Did you ever give us a good discription on what the bike is doing? If you did I have missed it.

RandyA

 

Bearing was installed upside down and the dealer just mashed the case down on top of the pin. Things were loose enough to allow to shaft to move and third gear did not engage. I rode it that way, as the problem was kind of intermittent, for about 30 miles. Here is a link....

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showpost.php?p=50648&postcount=19

[fixit3546]

Greased up (after cleaning) my steering head bearings and took a nice little ride, 'bout 15 miles or so. No tranny trouble; but i have a major oil leak somewhere behind the final drive cover. I hope it is just a seal slipped out. Or even a missaligned cover gasket. It's bad.

[Rocket]

 

The problem, i found, is with the dogs on the 5th. gear wheel which has the dogs built onto the side of it to engage the second gear. Just as randy described, it had a fair amount of wear on it. also the retainer clips that hold the pinion gear on had a grove cut in them. (is this the thrust washer i keep hearing about ?)

BTW, I built a very simple press to remove the pinion gear.

I used two 16"x3/8" allthread rod and nuts.

I used a peice of I-beam that use to be the tongue of a trailer and cut two holes in it about 5" apart for the bolts to pass through. that made up the base. for the working end, I cut the center out of an old "doughnut spare" wheel that was on a dodge car. I cut the bowl out of the middle of it, cut one small hole between two lug bolt holes for my allthread to pass through, (i used a lug hole on the other side.) then I had to open the middle up a just a bit. It worked by compressing the shaft between the the two pieces as the nuts were screwed down on the allthread. the end of the shaft rested on the plate and the "wheel" end compressed the spring sending the shaft up through the hole untill the retainers could be removed.

 

I'll try to get a photo next time, I,m not much on wrighting technical articles.

 

It looks like, I will be trying out this version of a press later today. As I pulled my motor yesterday & split the case. From my intial look, the dogs on the gears & shifter forks look good, will need only to change the washer & retainers (thrust washers). Note* I have not have any problems with 2nd gear, doing this as a preventative fix, along with checking the starter clutch & replacing the U joint while at it, as well.

[Squeeze]

Greased up (after cleaning) my steering head bearings and took a nice little ride, 'bout 15 miles or so. No tranny trouble; but i have a major oil leak somewhere behind the final drive cover. I hope it is just a seal slipped out. Or even a missaligned cover gasket. It's bad.

 

Didi you place a Copper Washer under the lowest Bolt of the six Bolts of the FinalDrive Cover ?

 

The Washer has to be there, or it will do like a Harley :D

[Venturous Randy]

It looks like, I will be trying out this version of a press later today. As I pulled my motor yesterday & split the case. From my intial look, the dogs on the gears & shifter forks look good, will need only to change the washer & retainers (thrust washers). Note* I have not have any problems with 2nd gear, doing this as a preventative fix, along with checking the starter clutch & replacing the U joint while at it, as well.

 

Given that the new thrust washer is harder and thicker and causes more engagement, that should fix it for good. But for me I would still want to consider the undercut, even though you will probably never need it.

Hey fixit, to find your leak, clean the area good with Brake Parts Cleaner and then spray some powder type anti-fungel spray on it, like for athletes feet.

It is supposed to show up the oil leak better, or at least that is what I have been told.

RandyA

[cliffno350]

I have an 83 standard venture with 54000 on the clock needs the 2nd gear done anybody interested?