polecat54 Posted March 2, 2011 #1 Posted March 2, 2011 Washington (CNN) -- A Kansas church that attracted nationwide attention for its angry, anti-gay protests at the funerals of U.S. military members has won its appeal at the Supreme Court, an issue testing the competing constitutional rights of free speech and privacy. The justices, by an 8-1 vote, said Wednesday that members of Westboro Baptist Church had a right to promote what they call a broad-based message on public matters such as wars. The father of a fallen Marine had sued the small church, saying those protests amounted to targeted harassment and an intentional infliction of emotional distress. "Speech is powerful. It can stir people to action, move them to tears of both joy and sorrow, and -- as it did here -- inflict great pain. On the facts before us, we cannot react to that pain by punishing the speaker," Chief Justice John Roberts wrote for the majority. At issue was a delicate test between the privacy rights of grieving families and the free speech rights of demonstrators, however disturbing and provocative their message. Several states have attempted to impose specific limits on when and where the church members can protest. The church, led by pastor Fred Phelps, believes God is punishing the United States for "the sin of homosexuality" through events including soldiers' deaths. Members have traveled the country shouting at grieving families at funerals and displaying such signs as "Thank God for dead soldiers," "God blew up the troops" and "AIDS cures fags." http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.element/img/3.0/mosaic/bttn_close.gif http://www.cnn.com/video/us/2010/10/07/am.seg.snyder.funeral.protest.cnn.640x360.jpg http://www.cnn.com/video/us/2010/10/07/am.seg.snyder.funeral.protest.cnn.640x360.jpg2010: Free speech vs. privacy http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.element/img/3.0/mosaic/bttn_close.gif http://www.cnn.com/video/crime/2010/10/06/bts.scotus.religion.speech.cnn.640x360.jpg http://www.cnn.com/video/crime/2010/10/06/bts.scotus.religion.speech.cnn.640x360.jpg2010: Church says arguments went well http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.element/img/3.0/mosaic/bttn_close.gif http://www.cnn.com/video/bestoftv/2010/12/07/exp.nr.westboro.church.demo.cnn.640x360.jpg http://www.cnn.com/video/bestoftv/2010/12/07/exp.nr.westboro.church.demo.cnn.640x360.jpg2010: Vet accused of stalking church http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.element/img/3.0/mosaic/bttn_close.gif http://www.cnn.com/video/us/2008/03/31/ramos.ks.phelps.protest.wibw.576x324.jpg http://www.cnn.com/video/us/2008/03/31/ramos.ks.phelps.protest.wibw.576x324.jpg2008: Protesting Fred Phelps RELATED TOPICS Westboro Baptist Church Fred Phelps U.S. Supreme Court Westboro members had appeared outside the 2006 funeral for Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder in Westminster, Maryland, outside Baltimore. Snyder's family sued the church in 2007, alleging invasion of privacy, intentional infliction of emotional distress and civil conspiracy. A jury awarded the family $2.9 million in compensatory damages plus $8 million in punitive damages, which were later reduced to $5 million. The church appealed the case in 2008 to a federal appeals court, which reversed the judgments a year later, siding with the church's allegations that its First Amendment rights were violated. Albert Snyder, Matthew's father, said his son was not gay and the protesters should not have been at the funeral. "I was just shocked that any individual could do this to another human being," Snyder told CNN. "I mean, it was inhuman." Church members say their broader message was aimed at the unspecified actions of the military and those who serve in it. They believe U.S. soldiers deserve to die because they fight for a country that tolerates homosexuality. Roberts in his opinion noted the Snyder family was not a "captive audience" to the protests that were conducted several hundred yards away. "Westboro stayed well away from the memorial service," wrote Roberts. "Snyder could see no more than the tops of the signs when driving to the funeral. And there is no indication that the picketing itself in any way interfered with the funeral itself." Based on that the court concluded Snyder could not collect damages from Westboro. But the chief justice showed little sympathy for the message Westboro promotes. "Westboro believes that America is morally flawed; many Americans might feel the same about Westboro. Westboro's funeral picketing is certainly hurtful and its contribution to public discourse may be negligible," he said. However, "As a nation we have chosen a different course -- to protect even hurtful speech on public issues to ensure that we do not stifle public debate." The ruling was a narrow one, dealing with the specific, unusual facts of this appeal. Such vocal protests at military funerals are almost entirely confined to this one small group. Roberts said on the free speech question, it was enough to rely on "limited principles that sweep no more broadly than the appropriate context of the instant case." Only Justice Samuel Alito dissented. He said the church's "outrageous conduct caused petitioner great injury, and the court now compounds that injury by depriving petitioner of a judgment that acknowledges the wrong he suffered," he said. "In order to have a society in which public issues can be openly and vigorously debated, it is not necessary to allow the brutalization of innocent victims like petitioner." The Supreme Court has never addressed the specific issue of laws designed to protect the "sanctity and dignity of memorial and funeral services," as well as the privacy of family and friends of the deceased. But the high court has recognized the state's interest in protecting people from unwanted protests or communications while in their homes. The justices were being asked to address how far states and private entities like cemeteries and churches can go to justify picket-free zones and the use of "floating buffers" to silence or restrict the speech or movements of demonstrators exercising their constitutional rights in a funeral setting. A majority of states across the nation have responded to the protests with varying levels of control over the Westboro church protesters. In Wednesday's case, 48 states and dozens of members of Congress filed an amicus brief in support of the Snyders. John Ellsworth, chairman of Military Families United, said that military protects the First Amendment rights that members of Westboro use to protest. "Gold Star families deserve the respect of a grateful nation, not hate from a group who chooses to demonstrate during the funeral of their loved one," he said. "My family has been on the receiving end of their hate and I assure all Gold Star families, this group is an anomaly and your sacrifice does not go without notice." Church members told the court they have a duty to protest and picket at certain events, including funerals, to promote their religious message: "That God's promise of love and heaven for those who obey him in this life is counterbalanced by God's wrath and hell for those who do not obey him." The congregation is made up mostly of Fred Phelps and his family. The pastor has 13 children, and at least 54 grandchildren and seven great-grandchildren. He described himself as an "old-time" gospel preacher in a CNN interview in 2006, saying, "You can't preach the Bible without preaching the hatred of God." Church members have participated in several hundred protests across the country. In 2009, the high court blocked Missouri's effort to enforce a specific law aimed at the Westboro church. Phelps, daughter Shirley Phelps-Roper and other church members had protested near the August 2005 funeral of a soldier in St. Joseph, Missouri. State lawmakers later passed the "Spc. Edward Lee Myers Law," criminalizing picketing "in front of or about" a funeral location or procession. The case decided Wednesday is Snyder v. Phelps (09-751).
etcswjoe Posted March 2, 2011 #2 Posted March 2, 2011 What does it take to become a Patriot Guard Rider?
hunter 1500 Posted March 2, 2011 #3 Posted March 2, 2011 What does it take to become a Patriot Guard Rider? Just got to there website and join. PGR is free ulike freedom.
capn eddie Posted March 2, 2011 #4 Posted March 2, 2011 I think the hells angles need to show up and have a talk with the church members at there protests.
Sleeperhawk Posted March 2, 2011 #5 Posted March 2, 2011 What does it take to become a Patriot Guard Rider? Hey, Joe, contact BEER30, he belongs for sure.
adventurer 08 Posted March 2, 2011 #6 Posted March 2, 2011 Been a member for a few years now. it's a great group to belong to. I have never come across any protesters and i hope i don't. I don't think that i could behave.
Sylvester Posted March 2, 2011 #7 Posted March 2, 2011 We fullfill many rides for our fallen soldiers and always need more gaurd members. Wellcome aboard.
jemorrisonjr Posted March 2, 2011 #8 Posted March 2, 2011 Been a PGR member for a long time, and will be there when ever asked
Yammer Dan Posted March 2, 2011 #9 Posted March 2, 2011 I will volunteer to punch Rev Phelps in the F****** mouth!! Is that Political???
ragtop69gs Posted March 2, 2011 #10 Posted March 2, 2011 I think the hells angles need to show up and have a talk with the church members at there protests. That is what the WBC idiots want. You go there and threaten them and they sue you,that's how they finance themselves. The PGR has found the most effective means of making them a non-issue. I am surprised nobody has taken more drastic measures against them yet. I have faced off against those disgusting people many times,,,they make me sick. Too bad the the families must endure this abuse. Joe, If you go to http://www.patriotguard.org/ you can sign up and find out about missions in your area. You only need to show up with your 3x5 flag and a desire to do the RIGHT THING, pay Honor and Respect to our fallen hero's.
ragtop69gs Posted March 2, 2011 #11 Posted March 2, 2011 I will volunteer to punch Rev Phelps in the F****** mouth!! Is that Political??? No it's not. And I'll donate to your defense fund when you do
DONATALIE Posted March 2, 2011 #12 Posted March 2, 2011 PLEASE be aware, that the PGR is NON-CONFRONTATIONAL. Unfortunately, there is a small group that supports the WBC here in our area. They mostly only show up to the funerals of active duty KIA's. I've stood as close as arm's length from some of them, and had some blood curdling things screamed at me. Yes, it takes a very thick skin, but you have to withstand it. You CAN NOT act in violence, no matter how much you would like to (me too). We are there for their families, for their communities, and most of all, to honor their sacrifices. Our former PGR state captain used to tell reporters when they asked him about WBC, "They are irrelevant, we would be here, even if they weren't." That's something I try to keep in mind at every mission they show up at. We're there for the families, not because of the protesters. I have two older brothers who are both retired military. They have joined the PGR, but don't come to any missions. That's because they both recognize that they might do something they shouldn't if WBC shows up. I respect their willingness to accept that they might not be able to remain peaceful. By all means, if you are so inclined, join us, we'll be happy to have you there. Just remember that we support peacefully, no matter what! Don
ragtop69gs Posted March 2, 2011 #13 Posted March 2, 2011 PLEASE be aware, that the PGR is NON-CONFRONTATIONAL. Unfortunately, there is a small group that supports the WBC here in our area. They mostly only show up to the funerals of active duty KIA's. I've stood as close as arm's length from some of them, and had some blood curdling things screamed at me. Yes, it takes a very thick skin, but you have to withstand it. You CAN NOT act in violence, no matter how much you would like to (me too). We are there for their families, for their communities, and most of all, to honor their sacrifices. Our former PGR state captain used to tell reporters when they asked him about WBC, "They are irrelevant, we would be here, even if they weren't." That's something I try to keep in mind at every mission they show up at. We're there for the families, not because of the protesters. I have two older brothers who are both retired military. They have joined the PGR, but don't come to any missions. That's because they both recognize that they might do something they shouldn't if WBC shows up. I respect their willingness to accept that they might not be able to remain peaceful. By all means, if you are so inclined, join us, we'll be happy to have you there. Just remember that we support peacefully, no matter what! Don Well stated Don.
GAWildKat Posted March 2, 2011 #14 Posted March 2, 2011 I signed up today to be a member of the Patriot Guard. After All they made my friend Valerie's funeral better.
painterman67 Posted March 2, 2011 #15 Posted March 2, 2011 Ive been a mamber for a while......showed up to one ride and was asked to stand the line...........with falg in hand and a deep respect I stood there and watched the limo go by............no protesters that I seen and the family knew that at least one group was respectfull for what their son had given up David
ragtop69gs Posted March 3, 2011 #17 Posted March 3, 2011 I also joined today, long over due. Here ya go, info on statewide missions. http://pgrmichigan.org/
eusa1 Posted March 3, 2011 #18 Posted March 3, 2011 I'm a proud member! everyone needs to know that you don't have to be a vet. and you don't have to pass a test. just join and show your pride and hold up a flag when asked to, or ride in a group when asked to. the pgr is 100% free and you don't have to make it to a certain amount of meetings or meet any quota"s just show up when you have the time. I have met some great folks from my rides with the pgr, and there is no better feeling than watching a plane load of world war vets come home from the honor flight and cry like they just came home from war to a welcome party for the first time. the families of a fallen soldier are so very apreciative of the support and there is no way to describe it without being there. go to the website and sign up for the events in your area..... you will be hooked. mike
FutureVentures Posted March 3, 2011 #19 Posted March 3, 2011 As a veteran of the Marine Corps and Air National Guard, it was my duty to "support and defend" our Constitution. I think these "people" and their activities are disgusting and demented, it makes me sick. But I do agree with free speech and the more we limit, the less free we are. That being said, I just signed up for Patriot Guard Riders, shoulda done this a long time ago. I wonder how some of these freaks would feel if a bunch of bikers showed up and protested at their families' funerals? But I couldn't demean myself to stoop to their level, tempting as it is....
Aussie Annie Posted March 3, 2011 #20 Posted March 3, 2011 While we are in the states this proud PGR member will take every opportunity to stand the line, and show that Aussies care about their service and sacrifice. And that "dipstick" Phelps needs to realize that GOD does not hate....man does!!!!! Geez, what a pooor excuse for a human being.
Red Ryder Posted March 3, 2011 #21 Posted March 3, 2011 Hey All, as a PGR member I have not had to deal with any of the protesters, only very appreciative familys. I do get choked up at times, well inside just about everytime, but not sure if I would enjoy the protesters to well. The more PGR members there is at an event the better you can control a situation, like having a group of PGR members by the doors and close to the greaving family, and enough PGR members at the perimature to keep Protesters at bay. Thanks to all our Vets. Later-
Zfrebird4 Posted March 3, 2011 #22 Posted March 3, 2011 College? Seminary, or church ordained. Guys like him give those of us with proper training and credentials and our parishioners and potention new members a blind eye! I am retired; joined PR, but have not heard from them. And I need someone near FT Collins, CO., to help :fingers-crossed-emome in figuring out a flag pole holder for my 86 VR, and a proper flag. Best to all who posted; and thanks for allerting us to this overkill of commonsense by this pastor and chuch. PRs no doubt will build a shield around the emonstrators; all those flags of Old Beautiful should make them thanksful we let them speak! Just my 2 cents. JackZ
Brake Pad Posted March 3, 2011 #23 Posted March 3, 2011 Been on to many missions, that I care to mention. But proud to stand
Caveman Posted March 3, 2011 #24 Posted March 3, 2011 Yep, I joined today as well. I believe in their mission and with a son who is a US Marine how could I not join. Should have done it long ago!
DONATALIE Posted March 3, 2011 #25 Posted March 3, 2011 College? Seminary, or church ordained. Guys like him give those of us with proper training and credentials and our parishioners and potention new members a blind eye! I am retired; joined PR, but have not heard from them. And I need someone near FT Collins, CO., to help :fingers-crossed-emome in figuring out a flag pole holder for my 86 VR, and a proper flag. Best to all who posted; and thanks for allerting us to this overkill of commonsense by this pastor and chuch. PRs no doubt will build a shield around the emonstrators; all those flags of Old Beautiful should make them thanksful we let them speak! Just my 2 cents. JackZ JackZ, Every state does it differently. The next time you log in to the website, look on the left side of the screen. You'll see a tab titled "Leadership Contacts." Click on that and it will give you a link to the Colorado state captain(s). Send him/her an email, asking to be put on the email list. This way, when there is a mission in your area, you will be notified about it. Bear in mind that this is an all-volunteer organization. You probably won't get any advance phone calls or the like. Generally, there are no monthly meetings and no dues. All you do is monitor the website, and come to whatever missions you feel you can make. It's up to each member to get themselves to and from the mission, and to monitor the website for pending missions. Once you find out exactly how they do it in Colorado, it's a snap. Hope this helps. If you have any questions about PGR, my cell phone # is listed in my profile. Good luck to you. BTW, sorry, but I can't help you with the flag pole mounting, but I'm sure someone in your local PGR can. Don
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