Having an Electrical problem with my 83

[ieatfurniture]

With the key off I have power to the clock but as soon as I turn the key to the on position I lose all power. I was having problems with the charging system and I was told to check the plug between the alternator stator and the voltage regulator for burned connections. I accidentally tried to start the bike before plugging this connection back together and it made a weird buzzing sound and that is when this whole loss of power when the key is on problem started. So Now I need to fix this problem before I can finish repairing the charging problem. Does anyone have any suggestions? Where to start? I'm kind of at a loss on this one. I tried searching the forums for a similar problem already posted but wasn't able to find one.

[bkuhr]

Sounds like loose wire connections at the battery. Verify with volt meter on battery at the terminal lugs, then the battery posts. Could also be low battery voltage, enough battery to run clock, but key on and little bit of battery left dumps to lights, etc,,, and all dies.

Also could be bad key switch

 

Unlikely bad short in electrical system, as short bad enough to kill all circuits would blow main fuse

[mini-muffin]

According to the hubby it's the battery. We have 2 83's, he said most likely low battery. The clock stays on without the key on anyway.

 

Margaret

[dingy]

The unplugging of the stator plug is unrelated to your other problems. The stator plug only serves the purpose of putting the output from the stator into the rectifier when the motor is running.

 

The system should power up with this plug unconnected. Everything would work assuming you had a system in perfect condition.

 

I do not mean to imply though that this stator plug is not the source of your seemingly low battery, it could very well be, but that is a separate issue.

 

Verify that battery is fully charged. A trickle charger is not the first choice to fully deep cycle charge a discharged battery. If any doubt about its condition, pull it out and take it somewhere that a load test can be done on it. Auto Zone, O'rielys, etc.

 

You have a problem elsewhere in the system. As bkuhr recommended, check all connections. I would suggest to check them you disconnect each main connection point, clean all surfaces with emery paper and reassemble with dielectric grease. This includes the main ground on the right lower front of motor and the small cables that come off the large battery cable near the battery posts.

 

Check every one of the fuses in the fuse block by gently pulling on each end and see that the clips have not corroded and lost their holding ability. This is a common problem that will cause circuit problems.

 

Keep posting your results and we will try to not send you on to many wild goose chases. We have seen this before.

 

 

Gary

[ieatfurniture]

Ok definitely a loose connection. With the key on I wiggle the positive cable and the power will come on. When I try to start it the negative sparks like crazy. It's really cold out in the garage right now so I haven't been out there for very long but at least I have a starting point right now. I know the cables are screwed on tight so that's not the loose connection problem. I'll have to get out there during the day when it is a little warmer check it out more thoroughly. Any good things to check? Thanks again everyone for all the help. It's good to have other people's help because I always over think it and go straight to the worse and don't even bother to check things like loose connections.

[bkuhr]

Ok definitely a loose connection. With the key on I wiggle the positive cable and the power will come on. When I try to start it the negative sparks like crazy. It's really cold out in the garage right now so I haven't been out there for very long but at least I have a starting point right now. I know the cables are screwed on tight so that's not the loose connection problem. I'll have to get out there during the day when it is a little warmer check it out more thoroughly. Any good things to check? Thanks again everyone for all the help. It's good to have other people's help because I always over think it and go straight to the worse and don't even bother to check things like loose connections.

 

You are on track, even though you think your connections are tight, corrosion is a bugger. Take your battery connections apart, +&-, and clean both the terminal lugs and battery posts with a brillo pad. Same for the frame ground wire, and the main fuse terminal lugs. If you still have factory fuses (glass barrels) you may consider a fuse block upgrade. Member here, skydoc17, offers a good kit-look in classifieds.

[dingy]

Ok definitely a loose connection. With the key on I wiggle the positive cable and the power will come on. When I try to start it the negative sparks like crazy.

 

 

Where ever you are seeing sparking, you have a problem. Sparking is only going to occur with a some sort of a bad connection, or a short circuit the majority of the time on a Venture.

 

It sounds like you have a partial open circuit. Find it, fix it. The sparklers are signaling the way.

 

Run to the light !!

 

And you are in Utah, how cold is it there ??

 

Gary

[skydoc_17]

You say the connection bolts are tight on the plus and minus battery terminal posts, but in reality, the nut on the bottom of the terminal post bolt could actually be corroded to the bolt and not tight at all. Also, the bolt could have been overtightened and the lead terminal post could be split, and will NEVER tighten up. Remove both plus and minus cables from the battery, clean the ends of the cables and the terminal posts, and reinstall. Here is the fuse box kit: http://www.venturerider.org/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=3231&title=first-gen-fuse-box-upgrade-kit-21&cat=22

I suspect the battery is gone. When ever I am doing a project on my scoot, If I come across a connection joint, I take it apart, clean and use the dielectric grease on it. Every time. Without knowing weather or not you have a good battery. chasing electrical gremlins is going to be a tuff job.

http://www.venturerider.org/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=2742&title=deka-etx-18l-sealed-agm-battery&cat=22

There has been a lot of good input in the preceding posts. Good luck with your hunt!

Earl

[ieatfurniture]

I'll be sure to check all of the connections and clean everything tomorrow and see how it goes after that.

 

Right now it's 28 degrees so it's a little to cold to be hanging out in the garage. I need to invest in a heater so I can make the winter projects more comfortable. Can't wait for spring!!!

[ieatfurniture]

Ok so I fixed the loose connection problem got the bike running and started the charging system checks. At 3000 rpm's voltage at the battery doesn't go up to 14 it just stays at about 12 so something is wrong. Checked the ac at the stator plug and I'm getting readings at about 10 with all 3 different combinations. None were significantly lower than the others. So from what I have read the stator isn't bad. Is this right? Is there anything else I need to check?

[dingy]

Ok so I fixed the loose connection problem got the bike running and started the charging system checks. At 3000 rpm's voltage at the battery doesn't go up to 14 it just stays at about 12 so something is wrong. Checked the ac at the stator plug and I'm getting readings at about 10 with all 3 different combinations. None were significantly lower than the others. So from what I have read the stator isn't bad. Is this right? Is there anything else I need to check?

 

If that is 10 Volts AC, that is way low.

There is about a drop of 30% when rectifiying AC to DC, I think it is refered to as RMS drop.

I'm at work on lunch right now. When I get home I will see what I can dig up. Unless someone else knows in between.

Gary

[frankd]

Switch your meter to ohms and measure from ground (like the engine case) to one of the stator wires. If it's grounded, the stator is bad. You only have to measure to one of the wires because they have continuity to each other. If you'd rather use a test light, connect the lead to the positive battery terminal and touch one of the white wires with the probe----if the light comes on, the stator is grounded.

 

Now I can't say that being grounded is all that ever goes wrong with stators, but the bad stators that I have seen were all grounded.

 

Also check the condition of the stator to regulator plug and make sure there aren't any burnt pins.

 

Your battery has to be good and fully charged to test the charging system output voltage. If the battery is discharged or has a bad cell, the voltage will be low.

 

Frank

[bkuhr]

Switch your meter to ohms and measure from ground (like the engine case) to one of the stator wires. If it's grounded, the stator is bad. You only have to measure to one of the wires because they have continuity to each other. If you'd rather use a test light, connect the lead to the positive battery terminal and touch one of the white wires with the probe----if the light comes on, the stator is grounded.

 

Now I can't say that being grounded is all that ever goes wrong with stators, but the bad stators that I have seen were all grounded.

 

Also check the condition of the stator to regulator plug and make sure there aren't any burnt pins.

 

Your battery has to be good and fully charged to test the charging system output voltage. If the battery is discharged or has a bad cell, the voltage will be low.

 

Frank

On my 750 I had a stator with shorted windings (not to ground). Book called for, I think point4(.4) ohms per winding, and I had about .2 per. At first though tolerance error, but after replacing everything else, it was a bad stator. Not sure what book for 83 calls for, might be the same (.4), but as frankd said, ohm out your windings and right them down. First read your meter with leads shorted to each other, and subtract any lead reading from winding readings(3 white wires to each other). BTW, need decent quality digital ohm meter for this test.

 

If readings about ok, check connector (3 white wires) real good for burning/overheating-corrosion. There is a test in the book for testing the diode(rectifier)section of the voltage rectifier/regulator, but there is no test for the regulator section. Kind of expensive, need to eliminate everything else before buying one, and may start with battery, as yours is likely on last leg.

[dingy]

Attached is the charging system pages from the MKII service manual (86-93). Procedures and test numbers are identical for the MKI's (83-85)

 

As frank said, check your wires to ground. Check all three of them one at a time. This is one of the times I like to have an Analog Ohm meter (one with a needle).. If you have an analog meter, set it to a medium to high range, like 1k or 10K ohms. You should read open on all three wires to ground. The cover over the stator is a good place to check to, because it is this cover that they will most likely be grounded to.

 

Between each pair of the three white wires coming from stator (there are 3 combination's) you should read 0.36 to 0.48 ohms each time. Each of these wires goes to one coil in the stator, then the other end of the 3 coils are tied together. So when you read between any two wires, you are actually reading through two coils. As bkuhr said, subtracting the stator lead and meter lead resistance is helpful .This can be confusing to determine this value though. I think it is more important that all three pairs have the same reading. This reading is so low that it can vary depending on the temperature.

 

From what I have found, between any two of the alternator wires, you should read at least 20 Volts AC at idle, this will increase to 50 or more volts at higher RPM's,

 

Gary

[ieatfurniture]

Ok so now I have 2 ventures in my garage right now. 1 good 1 bad. Both are 83's I am doing the same tests on each. When measuring the ac voltage on the good one at the stator plug I am getting a steady 12 volts between all three combinations. When I do it on mine the bad one I'm getting close to the same. The only difference is mine is not as consistent as the good one. Mine will jump around a little between 10 and 15 volts. As for checking for a ground I am showing that it is grounded but I am also showing the good one grounds out as well so I am probably doing something wrong there. The meter I borrowed is a little advanced for my no electrical knowledge so I am having the owner of the meter coming over in a little bit to help make sure I am using it right. Also My battery is good. I have tried it in both bikes.

[dingy]

Ok so now I have 2 ventures in my garage right now. 1 good 1 bad. Both are 83's I am doing the same tests on each. When measuring the ac voltage on the good one at the stator plug I am getting a steady 12 volts between all three combinations. When I do it on mine the bad one I'm getting close to the same. The only difference is mine is not as consistent as the good one. Mine will jump around a little between 10 and 15 volts. As for checking for a ground I am showing that it is grounded but I am also showing the good one grounds out as well so I am probably doing something wrong there. The meter I borrowed is a little advanced for my no electrical knowledge so I am having the owner of the meter coming over in a little bit to help make sure I am using it right. Also My battery is good. I have tried it in both bikes.

Meters have many settings and places to plug in the leads to get the correct readings.

 

You must read AC voltage at the alternator plug. Below is connection you need to check, sorry about focus, usually I do better. Its 8 degrees here now. It is the female pin side of the plug.

 

Also, do not read the wires with the meter set to Ohms when the bike is running, this may damage the meter.

 

To read the ground values, set the meter to the ohms scale and touch the two leads together. It should read zero if it is a digital style. If it is an analog (has a needle), there is usally an adjustment knob on the face of the meter that you turn to get the meter to read 0 to the right side of the scale. If it is analog and won't zero out, this is an indication the battery in the meter needs changed. Then to check the to ground resistance, clip one of the meter leads to the stator cover, really does not matter which one. With the other lead touch each of the three connector pins shown in the picture.

You should read an open on all three leads to ground, if not there is almost for sure an issue with the stator. Very possibly pinched leads somewhere. If any one of the leads is grounded, you will read a ground on all three leads, due to they are tied together after running through the windings inside the stator. It will just vary slightly due to the coil resistance. This is unless, one of the leads is open by chance.

 

Gary

[ieatfurniture]

Dingy!!! Best piece of advise. "The Female side of the plug" I've been checking the male side. Only getting about 4 volts. So I definitely have a bad stator. Is there a good walk through on replacing the stator out there?

[bkuhr]

Just to clarify a point, the ohm and ground test between stator coils is completed with the 3 white wire connector opened up. You are testing the connector to the front toward that stator cover. The rear connector goes to the regulator/rectifier mounted inside rear swing arm. If you are backstabbing pins with the connector together, you are also reading thru the regulator/rectifier and the readings are useless.

 

Never tried to check AC voltage with connector opened up, but magnetic field ac generator- it should work and show the +-20VAC Dingy stated between each white wire.

 

As a possible test assuming you have the 20vac with connector open, backstab the pins with the connector connected to the regulator/rectifier, (never make or break this connector with motor running) and the 20vac should be unchanged, if 1 or more white wires drops the 20vac a siginificant amount, may indicate a shorted rectifier diode

[bkuhr]

Dingy!!! Best piece of advise. "The Female side of the plug" I've been checking the male side. Only getting about 4 volts. So I definitely have a bad stator. Is there a good walk through on replacing the stator out there?

 

double check your meter is set to read AC volts, 20vac could read a fluxuation 4vdc.

also do the ohm tests before you condem the stator

[ieatfurniture]

I am testing with the plug undone. I was able to get a 20 volt reading with the good venture but with mine I was only getting about 4.9 when checking the female side of the plug. The reason I was having such a hard time before was cause I was checking the male side of the plug.

[ieatfurniture]

double check your meter is set to read AC volts, 20vac could read a fluxuation 4vdc.

also do the ohm tests before you condem the stator

 

 

I went back and checked again just to make sure I was checking ac and I am still getting the same readings.

[ieatfurniture]

I got a used stator for 25 dollars I was told it came off of an 83 but when I got it, the plug on the stator doesn't match the one on my bike. Anyone know anything about this? Did I just get ripped off?

[dingy]

I got a used stator for 25 dollars I was told it came off of an 83 but when I got it, the plug on the stator doesn't match the one on my bike. Anyone know anything about this? Did I just get ripped off?

 

 

Maybe, maybe not.

 

The plug can be changed. That is assuming you have three wires as a Venture stator has.

 

There is the possibility that the previous owner (PO) changed the plug due to the somewhat common problem of these plugs having a meltdown.

 

Attached is a picture of an 83 stator.

 

 

Gary

[ieatfurniture]

The stator in the picture has the same plug as my bad one. The one I ordered has the 3 wires but a flat plug with all 3 connections side by side. I can upload a picture when I get home.

[Dano]

What will matter is the bolt mounting patterns and physical size and ohms readings. I believe the same stator fits a Honda also which may use a different plug or the PO may have changed it.

 

Good luck