showmebob Posted January 27, 2011 #1 Posted January 27, 2011 Ok, been reading up on the install on the springs and there is some good stuff about installing progressive springs, the problem i have and cant find the answer to is how long and what size is the pvc spacer is, the springs i got came out of of a set of forks and they had no spacers in them, do you realy need the spacers ? it said to cut the spacer in half that came with springs, sence i did not buy these new and there was no spacer in there to begin with i am lost, does the space go on the top or the bottem, help if you will.
mbrood Posted January 27, 2011 #2 Posted January 27, 2011 I believe the original came with a 1" PVC spacer, so each side got 1/2" on top on each side.
Venturous Randy Posted January 27, 2011 #3 Posted January 27, 2011 I installed a new set of progressive springs in my 83 and I did not use any spacer at all. This allowed just a slight preload on the spring as I screwed the cap into the sleeve. This also gave me the best ride height, even though it raised to front of the bike a little with me sitting on it. But, more importantly, The bike handles better and I no longer have a problem with it bottoming out or clunking. RandyA
Venturous Randy Posted January 27, 2011 #4 Posted January 27, 2011 I believe the original came with a 1" PVC spacer, so each side got 1/2" on top on each side. Hey Mike, did you ever get the cut down center stand mounted on your bike? RandyA
KarlS Posted January 27, 2011 #5 Posted January 27, 2011 The spacer goes on top. Each spring comes with 1 spacer in the box. On my 83VR I did NOT cut the spacers in half because I weigh 300 lbs and wanted it stiffer. I believe the reason members say to cut them in half is to make it easier to get the caps back on. (Someone will correct me if I'm wrong). I had no problem at all screwing the caps back on the fork tubes.
Condor Posted January 27, 2011 #6 Posted January 27, 2011 The spacer goes on top. Each spring comes with 1 spacer in the box. On my 83VR I did NOT cut the spacers in half because I weigh 300 lbs and wanted it stiffer. I believe the reason members say to cut them in half is to make it easier to get the caps back on. (Someone will correct me if I'm wrong). I had no problem at all screwing the caps back on the fork tubes. It all depends on how much preload you'd like. My new Progressives came with two 6" spacers. I tried the whole spacer, but for me at least it was a PITA compressing the spring enough to get the caps started. So I cut one spacer in half and ending up with each two 3" spacers.. If you compress the spring too much you'll defeat the progressive action only leaving the stiffer section and a harder ride. I still had the Class to adjust air load. Worked great.
Snaggletooth Posted January 27, 2011 #7 Posted January 27, 2011 The spacer is to adjust the preload on the springs. Many have found the spacer included (I got 2 in mine) to be too long and very hard to reinstall the fork end cap. You do want it to be tight, but ya gotta get the cap back in right. If it's close you will need to press firmly on the cap to get it started. Take care there and don't cross thread it. To get close cut 2 sections of 1" PVC the to same size. That's important. Then make sure you can start the cap in. To add more preload I added SS washers to the top of that to adjust it. As the spring broke in I was able to add 2 more washers to each side to tighten it up. I used the old spring washers, the one cupped, to sit on top of the Progressive springs to create a flat surface, then the PVC and then the SS washers. As long as the spring makes contact with the cap....you have preload. The more pressure you use to to install the cap...the more preload you have. It must make contact with the cap. Mike
showmebob Posted January 27, 2011 Author #8 Posted January 27, 2011 1" dia. pvc, right ? i think i got it now, thanks a bunch, what would i do without this place, gona try one inch long and see how that works with the stock washer and one stainless washer, might be awhile before i get to test it out still got snow on the drive way and i aint gona shovel it, its about 1/8 mile long drive way, lol
bkuhr Posted January 28, 2011 #9 Posted January 28, 2011 (edited) If it's close you will need to press firmly on the cap to get it started. Take care there and don't cross thread it. Suggest practice screwing cap in without springs, to get idea of how it feels when starting properly, hard to tell when fighting preload, and easy to strip. BTW, I started with 1/2 spacer (1/2"), but finally put together with no spacer, and so far no air, and rides great. Somewhere I have a play by play(bunch of pics). found it http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=49226 Edited January 28, 2011 by bkuhr found link
1joeranger Posted January 28, 2011 #10 Posted January 28, 2011 Rick mentioned that with progressive springs we want about 1/2" pre load on our street bikes. To obtain that I measured the inside length of the cap, with a caliper, and obtained 0.638 inches or 5/8". So I install the spring, the washers, the "grey" pvc, and mark the pvc even with the extended fork leg. From there I will cut 1/8" the below the mark on the pvc assuring me of a 1/2 pre-load.
Venturous Randy Posted January 28, 2011 #11 Posted January 28, 2011 Rick mentioned that with progressive springs we want about 1/2" pre load on our street bikes. Actually, with my forks extended and the springs bottomed out, I was slightly above the lip of the tube. By the time I bottomed the cap, I probably had about 1/2 inch of preload in my setup. Anyway, that worked well for me. RandyA
Rick Butler Posted January 28, 2011 #12 Posted January 28, 2011 Guys, All springs must have some preload (pressure) to keep the spring from flopping up and down in the forks. As a general rule of thumb, fork springs need around 1" (26mm) of preload. So, with the springs in the fork tube and fully extended, you need to first measure down from the top of the tube to the top of the spring. Most of our Venture fork caps are roughly 1" thick, so in an ideal situation if the springs came exactly to the top of the tube, you will not need a preload spacer. This is mostly true for Progressive springs as well as the oem springs in our 2nd gen Ventures. So in this case, when you screwed the cap into the fork tube all the way in, you would end up with that 1" of preload. But, if the springs don't come all the way to the top (fully extended), then you will need a spacer to make up this missing distance. I remember with Progressives in our 1st gens (which had an oem metal preload spacer) I always used that 1" internal cap that sat on top of the spacers as the new preload spacer. Now most everyone except Race Tech has you use a piece of grey shedule 40 PVC (a diameter that is close to the id of your fork tube) as this spacer, with a large washer on both ends of the pipe which sits on to of the spring. And don't worry about the PVC, fork tuners have been using it for years because it's cheap and easy to cut to length. So, if the spring does not come to the top of the tube (fully extended) the procedure is: 1. Place 2 large washers on top of the springs and then insert the length of PVC pipe on top of the springs and mark the pipe at the top of the tube. 2. So, if the cap thickness is say 1.5" and if you cut the pipe to the top of the tube (fully extended) and put a washer on both ends of the PVC and screwed the cap in fully, you would have 1.5" of preload (which is too much). So in order to get 1" of preload, you need to shorten the spacer by 1/2". Do does anyone not understand what I'm saying, Rick
showmebob Posted January 28, 2011 Author #13 Posted January 28, 2011 That stock metal spacer has an o-ring on it, does that need to be in there, i asume for the air presure, to seal it.
Venturous Randy Posted January 28, 2011 #14 Posted January 28, 2011 That stock metal spacer has an o-ring on it, does that need to be in there, i asume for the air presure, to seal it. I don't remember a metal spacer with an o-ring on it. RandyA
Rocket Posted January 28, 2011 #15 Posted January 28, 2011 I don't remember a metal spacer with an o-ring on it. RandyA It's a Mk2 thing & I have not put them back in when doing the springs.
showmebob Posted January 28, 2011 Author #16 Posted January 28, 2011 From what all of you have told me and looking at the two diferent forks that i have, one with progressive springs and one with stock springs is that stock spacer with the o-ring on it must be in there to hold air presure if and when you ever want or need to add air, i know that the word is you wont need air with the progressive springs, even the progressive website states min. air is required, from what i can tell to get the same preload as the stock shocks i will need a spacer of about 1/2 inch, on top of the stock spacer so it will go down in the fork far enought to seal the air, thanks for the good info you guys, hellped me understand this thing.
mbrood Posted January 30, 2011 #17 Posted January 30, 2011 Here's the progressive (top) without any PVC spacer (I'm 120 pounds and there ain't enough lead to put in my pockets to get a 1" spacer AND get that nut on... ) and the stock spring with it's 3" metal insert that's no longer needed (bottom). As noted, the amount of spacer should be dictated by the weight of the driver, but with 1/2" spacer, my bike leaned so far over on the side stand that I had to "jerk it" up and that was going to lead to problems... as well as the stress on the side stand. With my 29" inseam, she sits as low as I can get her when upright and stands with a slight lean on the sidesstand and that's fine. http://www.bergall.org/temp/venture/springs3.jpg Yeah Randy... I finally just took the stock centerstand spring to a couple bike shops asking for one "this much" shorter... Amazing how many shops couldn't figure that out... all they knew was the microfische "What bike is it on..."
Venturous Randy Posted January 30, 2011 #18 Posted January 30, 2011 Yeah Randy... I finally just took the stock centerstand spring to a couple bike shops asking for one "this much" shorter... Amazing how many shops couldn't figure that out... all they knew was the microfische "What bike is it on..." Take the metal "C" shaped connector and put it is a vise and bend it a little until the C is shortened a little. That should take up any slack you may have from the leg being shorter where the connectioon point is located and that way you can use the same spring. RandyA
mbrood Posted January 30, 2011 #19 Posted January 30, 2011 mine was about 1/2'... that's a LOT of bending... I just figured another bike must use a different length and found one.. Now I wish I knew what it was off...
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