Wizard765 Posted January 22, 2011 #1 Posted January 22, 2011 Well we are trying to get the engine out of my 84 so that we can fix 2nd gear. Right now the problem is that we cannot get the pipes to separate from the collector. Tail pipes are off but the front and rear exhaust pipes just will not come loose. Afraid of breaking the collector and it appears to be in good shape. Any ideas? Is there a trick? I already broke one of the bolts trying to loosen the clamp on one of them. (gonna be looking for a clamp probably) At least that clamp is loose now. :-)
skydoc_17 Posted January 22, 2011 #2 Posted January 22, 2011 Hi Wayne, Jean Here, I asked Earl, and he said, don't mess around, cut ALL of the bolts off and replace with new grade 8 bolts (ream holes, use 1/4 inch bolts). The chances of getting the nuts off those bolts after 27 years is pretty slim. Even if you could get them off,they will not retighten properly. He also said, for the header nuts, (for the exhaust pipes) use PB blaster, and a bit of heat if the PB Blaster doesn't do it by itself. Earl says hey. Jean
Wizard765 Posted January 22, 2011 Author #3 Posted January 22, 2011 Hey Jean: Thanks for the reply. Say hi to Earl for me. The bolts are not the problem. They all came off easily. The problem is getting the pipes out of the collector once the bolts are loose. They are stuck tight. Also please let him know that when he is up and about I'll be sending him a list of gaskets and stuff that I will be needing. BUT not to hurry. He NEEDS to rest and do what the doctors say FIRST... Wayne
paysaw Posted January 22, 2011 #4 Posted January 22, 2011 Hi Bud Sorry to hear your second gear gace out. My 83 only has about 46k on it and my second gear seems stong.I wonder if there is a way to find out if my bike had the factory second gear upgrade?Take care and good luck with the repair.
Wizard765 Posted January 22, 2011 Author #5 Posted January 22, 2011 Hey Ray: Mine now had over 100,000 K (kms) and this problem just started this past summer. I believe if the 2nd gear issue was fixed by a dealer there would be a stamp in the casing somewhere. I'm not sure where to look but I think someone with more knowledge than me will pipe in here. Wayne
mbrood Posted January 22, 2011 #6 Posted January 22, 2011 With every clamp loose and letting penetrant spray on each joint soak for a few hours... I would think it best to pull forward on each front exhaust downpipe while trying to wiggle verticalling in a circle... rather like a small wiggle to get things to move just a hair, which should become a smidge, which goes on and on until you have it.
bongobobny Posted January 22, 2011 #7 Posted January 22, 2011 Yah!! A couple of blasts with PB Blaster every few hours followed by a few firm wacks with a rubber mallet each time should loosen them. If that does not work then a little heat should do the trick. Are the pipes loose from the engine?? If you can get the pipes down and out of the way then twisting them a bit should break them free!!
Wizard765 Posted January 22, 2011 Author #8 Posted January 22, 2011 Thnks guys: PB blaster and patience (which I'm lacking). Sounds good. Getting the pipes to twist would be awsome but there is no room to do that. they are loose from the engine but the space in there is VERY limited. Gonna have to see if PB Blaster is available in Canada
a1bummer Posted January 22, 2011 #9 Posted January 22, 2011 Not to sound stupid myself or make anybody else sound stupid either, but there are also a couple bolts holding the collector onto the bottom of the engine. It's not just the clamps holding the collector onto the header pipes that are keeping the collector in place. Just thought I would mention it in case they've been overlooked. That's something I coud do myself if I get distracted. Damn ADHD! Oooo.... shiny.......
dingy Posted January 22, 2011 #10 Posted January 22, 2011 Hi Bud Sorry to hear your second gear gace out. My 83 only has about 46k on it and my second gear seems stong.I wonder if there is a way to find out if my bike had the factory second gear upgrade?Take care and good luck with the repair. I seem to remember reading that if the 2nd gear fix had been done by a dealer, that there would be a center punch mark in the frame by the serial # label. Don't know if this is correct though. Gary
Wizard765 Posted January 22, 2011 Author #11 Posted January 22, 2011 Not to sound stupid myself or make anybody else sound stupid either, but there are also a couple bolts holding the collector onto the bottom of the engine. It's not just the clamps holding the collector onto the header pipes that are keeping the collector in place. Just thought I would mention it in case they've been overlooked. That's something I coud do myself if I get distracted. Damn ADHD! Oooo.... shiny....... Yep there are two nuts that come off studs to release the collector. Those came off easy. At one point we had the whole thing just floating but as one giant piece. Actually almost every nut or bolt has come apart really well except one of the clamps for the left front pipe. That one is apart but the bolt broke. Now we have reconnected the rear and the collector so as to try and get the front pipes first. Going to spray with PB (if I can get it) and let it sit for awhile.
KarlS Posted January 22, 2011 #12 Posted January 22, 2011 I seem to remember reading that if the 2nd gear fix had been done by a dealer, that there would be a center punch mark in the frame by the serial # label. Don't know if this is correct though. Gary Mine is punch marked at the end of the serial number and I was told that showed 2nd gear was fixed by the dealer.
Dano Posted January 22, 2011 #13 Posted January 22, 2011 Heat on the joints would only work if produced by acetyline/oxygen mix, I have tried even Mapp gas, it takes too long for the heat to work that way and it just heats the whole joint instead of just the outer skin. Oh the joys, I don't envy youse two. But I bet Carl is getting some BIG grins out of it.
Squeeze Posted January 22, 2011 #14 Posted January 22, 2011 Well, it might sound a bit wierd, but i had the same Problem while working on an older Honda. I finally put everything back togehter so i could get the Motor started and brought it outside and fired it up. I left alle the Exhaust Bolts and Clamps loose, heated the Engine up and let it cool down, did this this three Times and by then all the rusted Connections were loose enough to bring in Chemics and use mechanic Force (a Piece of Wood and a Hammer). I guess the Combination of Heat and Vibrations did the Trick. Also, Ice Spray could help a Lot to crack the Pipe Connections loose. But only on the Pipes, the Heads could really get in shock using Ice Spray. It's Matter of Patience and Persistance.
bongobobny Posted January 22, 2011 #15 Posted January 22, 2011 Wayne PB Blaster is just a brand, although is is a vrery good one. Any penetrating oil should do the trick. Barke fluid also makes for a decent penetrating oil but don't get it on plastic or paint...
BradT Posted January 23, 2011 #16 Posted January 23, 2011 Just curious, can the whole exhaust from the front of the engine to the back come down as one. Is the rear exhaust stuck to the collector as well ? Just thinking if you can get is away from the bike it will be easier to take apart the pieces. Good luck, I would get frustrated and end up beaking something Brad
GaryZ Posted January 23, 2011 #17 Posted January 23, 2011 Well we are trying to get the engine out of my 84 so that we can fix 2nd gear. Right now the problem is that we cannot get the pipes to separate from the collector. Tail pipes are off but the front and rear exhaust pipes just will not come loose. Afraid of breaking the collector and it appears to be in good shape. Any ideas? Is there a trick? I already broke one of the bolts trying to loosen the clamp on one of them. (gonna be looking for a clamp probably) At least that clamp is loose now. :-) My '85 VR had 63,000 miles on her when I took off the collector. At first it was solid-stuck (all clamps and bolts removed/loose). I soaked the four pipe ends with penetrating oil overnight. One hit with my rubber hammer the next morning and the collector fell on the floor.
chillywillie Posted January 23, 2011 #18 Posted January 23, 2011 pb blaster I have had the best luck with, let them soak for a few days if possible and then use a wooden dowel if you can to tap on them. wiggle up and down if possible.
frankd Posted January 23, 2011 #19 Posted January 23, 2011 Wizzard, I would put the two mounting nuts back on---you need to pull the front pipes first before you remove the nuts. PB Blaster evaporates pretty fast, so to soak the pipe connections you could try some other type of pentrating oil.....I use Kroil. It stinks, but it works great. I also use PB Blaster for most applications, but Kroil doesn't evaporate and works good also. After you soak them overnight, grab one of the pipes and start moving it around. I wiggle it side to side and pull out at the same time. After you get it to move a little, just keep working on it and it'll come. BTW, make sure you have the clamp bolts loosened quite a bit in case the pipe to collector gasket is stuck to the pipe. After the front pipes are out, remove the 2 nuts (I gather you have the mufflers off already) and then pull the back of the collector down and rock it. You may have to use a prybar to help. Then unbolt the rear pipes from the engine--I seem to remember you can leave them in place when you pull the motor. The motor is in the chassis pretty tight. Some people pull the shaft drive hub out for a little more room. It does help a bit. Some say they pull the valve covers, but I didn't have to do that when I did 2nd gear or the year later when I replaced the frame. Frank
99silver Posted January 24, 2011 #20 Posted January 24, 2011 Hi Bud Sorry to hear your second gear gace out. My 83 only has about 46k on it and my second gear seems stong.I wonder if there is a way to find out if my bike had the factory second gear upgrade?Take care and good luck with the repair. It would have a center punch at the end of the serial # on top of the engine case.
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