Why do a valve adjustment

[1joeranger]

OK after my success with installing new springs, with a lot of hand holding from Rick, I am feeling cocky enough to tackle a valve adjustmnet on my 05 RSTD. I have read V7Gooses's excellent write up and every other thread I could find regarding this procedure. My big question is why does this need to be done? What happens if it is not done? I know there are a few of you out there that think this is a big wasted effort. I would like to hear why? Not trying to start another war like over the Dyna Beads or over the car tires just would like some good feedback from everyone.

 

2nd part:

 

Has anyone actually tried using the suzuki shim tool on their 2nd gen http://pitposse.com/povashto.html or [ame=http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000GTVOC8/ref=asc_df_B000GTVOC8956097/?tag=globa0a-20&creative=380333&creativeASIN=B000GTVOC8&linkCode=asn?tag=citofgamonlco-20]Amazon.com: MOTION PRO SUZ VALVE SHIM TOOL 08-0017: Automotive@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31ljmdffXzL.@@AMEPARAM@@31ljmdffXzL[/ame] ?

 

Found shims at $5.17 ea http://www.z1enterprises.com/catalog.aspx?pid=YPEN1B. Considering buying a few from 2.55 to 2.85. Anyone know a source with better pricing? Are the sizes about what can be expected to replace? Might just borrow the kit from RandyR or another and restock theirs. Just looking at my options!

 

Last but not least I want to wish everyone at this fine site a Blessed Merry Christmas. I am thankful that God has put all of you in my life and I am truly humbled by his signs of Love starting with his son!

[RedRider]

For shims, go talk with your local dealer. Ask them if they will swap shims. My local dealer offered to swap shims for free.

 

RR

[dingy]

Looking at the picture for the Suzuki tool, it does not look like it would work well.

 

It would definitely not work on a 1st gen while the engine is in the bike. This tool does not engage the flats on the cam shaft. It has a long handle that is used to rotate the tool around the cam. There is no room on a 1st gen to do this, probably not on a 2nd gen either.

 

From the picture it does not look wide enough to engage both valve shim buckets at the same time, which would cause it to tend to slip off of just one bucket.

 

Gary

[gunboat]

hi ray

merry christmass

i can't say to do the valve adjustment or not. goose came down to tom's in blanco and we had a valve adjustment party on a couple of bikes. buddy rich came over to help. i bought my '99 with 21,000 miles on the clock. didn't know if the previous owner had it done or not. it was running great, but i had over 40,000 plus on it by that time.

i would say do it just to check everything out. we only change out a couple of the shims on my bike. these are great bikes and very forgiveing. this is only my 2 cents and goose, buddy rich and squidley may say other wise. it is a very labor intense job, but can be done in 1 day if all goes well. i think moma yamaha just want more $ in their pocket.

best reguards

don c.

[MiCarl]

... My big question is why does this need to be done? What happens if it is not done?

 

The valve is cooled by heat transfer to the head when it is seated. If the clearances are too tight it does not contact the seat well/long enough to transfer heat and can overheat. If it's standing partly open the hot gasses leaking past it will "burn" a hole in it.

 

I know there are a few of you out there that think this is a big wasted effort. I would like to hear why?

Odds are you'll find them in spec, or at least close. If they are you've wasted your effort. If they aren't you've saved yourself a valve job. How lucky do you feel?

 

You do not need the shim tool to check them. You only need the tool to remove/insert them.

[Redneck]

Your valve faces and seats wear over time causing the valve to rise. When the valve runs out of clearance it will no longer close completely. If it is allowed to get to that point the hot gasses from combustion begin to escape between the valve and seat causing a reduction in power and erosion of the valve face and seat. The condition that quickly occurs after the loss of clearance is commonly known as a burned valve that will no longer seal.

[Yammer Dan]

Your valve faces and seats wear over time causing the valve to rise. When the valve runs out of clearance it will no longer close completely. If it is allowed to get to that point the hot gasses from combustion begin to escape between the valve and seat causing a reduction in power and erosion of the valve face and seat. The condition that quickly occurs after the loss of clearance is commonly known as a burned valve that will no longer seal.

 

 

 

And then the work starts!!! Hard to say when or when not to do this one. Brown Sugar has over 66k and they haven't been checked that I know of. I was in there last summer to fix oil leak and should have done it then.

[mraf]

Did mine last winter. Look at it this way. If one or two are off it has a slight detrimental effect to the overall performance of the engine. So it should be done. When your done, besides all of the other above mentioned reasons to do it you will have a better piece of mind for knowing that it has been done. The tool is way overpriced and after giving up looking for a reasonable one I made my own. It wasn't pretty but it worked. It took about 2 hours to fudge out starting with a 13/16 box wrench and a welder to make the ramps then somewhat cleaning it up with a dremel and file. The 13/16 box fit the camshafts flats with just a little fileing. This is needed to roll the tool into place to push the buckets down.

[Eck]

I put 67,000 plus miles on my 05 Venture and never did a valve adjustment on it.

It always ran like a top, until the day I took it mud bogging in the medium strip.....

 

If I still had that same bike, I still would not have adjusted the valves...

 

I somewhat agree with all the reasons mentioned, (in above posts), as to why it should be done, but my own personal opinion differs...I have seen Ventures with well over 150k and they never had the valves adjusted..

 

Guess it all depends on how long you think you will keep the bike....

 

I figured after getting 100k -150k on mine, I would be looking for another one anyway..

[Flyinfool]

Your valve faces and seats wear over time causing the valve to rise. When the valve runs out of clearance it will no longer close completely. If it is allowed to get to that point the hot gasses from combustion begin to escape between the valve and seat causing a reduction in power and erosion of the valve face and seat. The condition that quickly occurs after the loss of clearance is commonly known as a burned valve that will no longer seal.

 

Does this mean that as the valves wear that the lift and duration will increase, longer lift and duration usually makes more power.

That kind of fits with the old saying from my stock car racing days, "An engine will run its best just before it blows".

 

That sure does not look like a $70 tool.

I would love to borrow one so I can copy it and have it ready to go when I dive into my valve adjustment next year.

I figure its time since I have 45K on it now.

[gunboat]

ray there was a post while back about a traveling valve shim kit . one of our members had a kit with the various shims that we needed to do this job. i can't remember if the tool was with the kit or not. all that was required to use the kit was to replace the shim you needed with the one you took out. there is a post somewhere about this "traveling shim kit".

reguards

don c.

[bongobobny]

OK bottom line, unless it is running poorly or the valves are clacking away, all you are doing is optomisingvalve operation and making it run just slightly better. Do a compression test and see if all cylinders are almost equal, i.e. within 5-10 psi of each other. If so, then the valves are probably OK. If the seats are bad, no amount of valve adjustment will cure that. Only resurfacing the valve seats is going to fix that...

[Grisolm1]

Did mine with 60k Mi. on clock. No idea about previous maintenance. It's a pain but I did find 5 intakes tight. One real tight. Glad I did it. 265 & 270 shims had to be bought.

[dingy]

Does this mean that as the valves wear that the lift and duration will increase, longer lift and duration usually makes more power.

That kind of fits with the old saying from my stock car racing days, "An engine will run its best just before it blows".

 

That sure does not look like a $70 tool.

I would love to borrow one so I can copy it and have it ready to go when I dive into my valve adjustment next year.

I figure its time since I have 45K on it now.

 

 

Jeff,

 

I have a detailed drawing of a valve shim tool. If you want it, I will make a PDF out of it and you can have it.

 

I have sent out for about a dozen quotes on getting it made. None of the replies that I got back were in the range that it made any sense to pursue it.

 

Gary

[RandyR]

Would anyone here feel 100% comfortable buying a used motorcycle from someone who says he hasn't done this piece of recommended maintenance on a high mileage bike?

[Redneck]

Does this mean that as the valves wear that the lift and duration will increase, longer lift and duration usually makes more power.

That kind of fits with the old saying from my stock car racing days, "An engine will run its best just before it blows".

 

That sure does not look like a $70 tool.

I would love to borrow one so I can copy it and have it ready to go when I dive into my valve adjustment next year.

I figure its time since I have 45K on it now.

The lift and duration remain the same you still have the same cam lobe. The valve timing does change slightly as the clearance closes the timing is advanced which will move the torque curve down in rpm. The reason a worn engine will put out more power is because of lower internal drag. You are only getting about 25% of the actual power the engine makes at the crankshaft the rest is wasted on internal drag thats what makes all the heat an engine generates.

[1joeranger]

For shims, go talk with your local dealer. Ask them if they will swap shims. My local dealer offered to swap shims for free.

 

RR

 

Spoke with several local dealers yesterday. Each would have to order 25mm shims and were not interested in buying any back. It was a great idea though!

 

I'm thinking about buying the suzuki tool, just for grins and giggles, and having the yamaha tool handy if I can use someones loaner kit. Several threads had mentioned they had used the device with success before but I am not sure if it was for a first gen or not. I may have the wrong tool. Just got to go back and read all these threads!

 

I'm gonna buy replacement shims for the loaner kit and to start stocking up for my own kit. Everyone agree 2.55 to 2.85 is the norm?

[greg_in_london]

Would anyone here feel 100% comfortable buying a used motorcycle from someone who says he hasn't done this piece of recommended maintenance on a high mileage bike?

 

Yes, I would - they should have been checked as part of theearly services and once settled, they change very slowly, if at all.

 

If you don't check them and the clearances close, then there may not be sufficient clearance for the oill film and you will grind away the cams, taking off the surface hardening.

 

It's not the end of the world, though, as there will be plenty of cams on Ebay. So long as you're happy making sure that the valve timing is set right, I suppose it is not THAT much more work than checking the shims (mind you, I have a first gen, so access is a bit of a PITA).

 

Bottom line is that is an important bit of maintenance - to at least check it - but it will stand an awful lot of neglect and is unlikely to lead to a catastrophic road-side failure (more likely a misfire or tap-tap-tap noise).

 

I've checked my first gen once in 12 years and might have changed one - or might not - I don't remember - but there were no surprises anyway.

[greg_in_london]

Would anyone here feel 100% comfortable buying a used motorcycle from someone who says he hasn't done this piece of recommended maintenance on a high mileage bike?

 

Yes, I would - they should have been checked as part of theearly services and once settled, they change very slowly, if at all.

 

If you don't check them and the clearances close, then there may not be sufficient clearance for the oill film and you will grind away the cams, taking off the surface hardening.

 

It's not the end of the world, though, as there will be plenty of cams on Ebay. So long as you're happy making sure that the valve timing is set right, I suppose it is not THAT much more work than checking the shims (mind you, I have a first gen, so access is a bit of a PITA).

 

Bottom line is that is an important bit of maintenance - to at least check it - but it will stand an awful lot of neglect and is unlikely to lead to a catastrophic road-side failure (more likely a misfire or tap-tap-tap noise).

 

I've checked my first gen once in 12 years and might have changed one - or might not - I don't remember - but there were no surprises anyway.

[Freebird]

MiCarl had the valve tools made and was selling them at a very fair price. I don't know if he has any left or not but you should contact him and find out.

[1joeranger]

If I buy one it will be from MiCarl! I'm just trying to stretch the boundaries of our knowledge. I'm the one that likes to experiment. A car tire here, dyna beads there, a different valve tool that may work. Granted that is a big "may"! Just asking the question "why?" has taught me so much!! Of course it can backfire. I asked a priest once "why?' during confirmation classes!! LOL, that was a really big no-no!!

 

Anyhow, Merry Christmas everyone! I'm gonna go cook some breakfast, try to fix that stuck float on my carb, Watch my girlfriend open up some gifts, and if I did the gift giving right, try to get lucky!!

[Freebird]

Hey...if you have found a lady that the two of you care enough for each other to spend this special day together, you are already lucky. Have a wonderful day.

[Yammer Dan]

Hey...if you have found a lady that the two of you care enough for each other to spend this special day together, you are already lucky. Have a wonderful day.

 

 

 

:sign yeah that::sign yeah that: The Warden is still cooking!!!

[Eck]

Would anyone here feel 100% comfortable buying a used motorcycle from someone who says he hasn't done this piece of recommended maintenance on a high mileage bike?

 

So, how many vehicles have you purchased over the years that didn't have the recommended maintenance done on it...

[Yammer Dan]

 

So, how many vehicles have you purchased over the years that didn't have the recommended maintenance done on it...

 

Don't think I've ever bought one that had all the Recommended Maintenance done!! Have walked away from a few that claimed they did.