1500 Gold Wing glitch

[Capn Quirk]

Hey, I got a question I'm hoping someone knows the answer to. My 1998 Gold Wing 1500 has an annoying electrical tendency. The last two time I went for a ride it all was right with the world then suddenly it acted like the battery was dead. The motor lost all power and I coasted to the shoulder and stopped. There wasn't enough juice in the battery to crank the engine. Karl, ic23b, came by with his van and jumper cables. We had to jump it 3 times to make it 6 miles home. All my gauges were wacko, with either no readouts or ridiculous readouts.

I cleaned the battery terminals and cables and put the battery on the charger BUT the charger said it was ALREADY fully charged !!??

A couple days later it happened again and I ended up walking home to get the car and trailer. When I got back to the bike it cranked over just like 'downtown' and fired right up.

Is there a relay or solenoid in the main circuit that could fail and interrupt the current flow?

Any ideas??

Quirk

Edited December 21, 2010 by Cap'n Quirk
added clarity

[mini-muffin]

The hubby thinks it might be a lose plate in the battery. Might try a different battery and see if that fixes it.

 

Margaret

[1 Canuck]

My 1500 Gold Wing had a few electrical problems that I traced back to corroded connections in the harness. Not saying that is problem as it could be a ground issue as well.

 

 

[1 Canuck]

Let me try to put a few steps/questions in order to test the circuits, bear with me as I am not there to see this...

• Does this happen only when the engine is hot?
  
• Is the battery charging? (use a volt meter)
  
• Will the bike start only when it is cold?
  
• Check the terminals on the starter/solenoid
  
• Check the harness connectors from ign. switch to the starter
  
• Check the harness connectors from the stator - 3 wires
  
  
• Check the terminal connections at the key switch
  

All these connectors should be disconnected and visually checked for any green corrosion or you may even find a wire/quick disconnect starting to melt.

There are a few other areas/circuits to touch on, but these are the most likely.

 

This list may help in the diagnosis? Unfortunately, the plastics will have to start coming off.

[Capn Quirk]

Mini-Muffin: The battery is a new gel type.

1 Canuck: I'll take a look for corroded connections. The battery posts and cables WERE corroded badly the first time it quit on me.

1Canuck: No, it does not always happen when it's hot and it does not ONLY happen when it's hot. Looking back I can remember 3 incidents where it lost power to the coils when it got wet (once in WY, once in WV, and once at a car wash here in Flint). In those incidents the starter would crank ALL DAY LONG but the engine wouldn't fire. Wait 3-4 minutes and every time it started like always.

The bike still acts/starts like it has for 99,300 miles in every way EXCEPT these last two rides. It will start hot, cold, wet, whatever then this came up. AND it's not only when those two incidents happened that it didn't start but it wouldn't crank over, gauges went out, lights wouldn't work then minutes later EVERYTHING was normal !!??

I'll check the connections (busy right now but I've got 3 months before MI riding time). Even when the power was out the starter solenoid would buzz like it was trying to engage but didn't have the juice to fully activate.

[Eck]

Mini-Muffin: The battery is a new gel type.

 

 

Question here:

Did your bike start having this problem AFTER you installed the NEW battery???

Or did you have this problem BEFORE you installed the new battery..?

 

Your charger may say it is fully charged, but as soon as you put a load on it (like trying to start your bike) the battery just goes "limp"...

I mean dead,,,ah..worthless..

 

The problem you explain sure sounds like you need to check the charging system once you do get it started... the bike may not be charging and your running off the battery until the battery just doesn't have any more juice to put out and your bike just stops..once it sits a little while the battery charges back up enough to start the bike...but again it only runs for a little while until the battery goes low or dead....this means your new battery is good.. but the charging system is faulty.

[Squidley]

Besides the battery possibly being bad, I would check where the ground wire is attached to the frame and make sure it's spotless. Let me also say that just because the battery is new, doesn't mean it's good. I have seen a few times where brand new batteries puked within a month or 2. Something else to look at it your ignition switch, the G2 Ventures in the early years are notorious for switches going bad, Wings could be the same way....

[Eck]

If you own a GL-1500 built in 1996 to 2000 you have one of the Chinese alternators that people have been having problems with

 

Also, if you have a 1988 to 1995 Wing, you may wish to think about replacing it with the high output charging system (check out Compufire alternators).

 

OEM alternators on the GL1500's were always underpowered. Anyone who added additional lighting had to be careful not to overpower it. If you have extra lights or heated clothing you need more power that the OEM alternator can produce.

Compufire is the popular replacement for the stock OEM. I have nothing to do with compufire sales, so it is up to you on what you want to replace your with. I am only suggesting what is recommended by others that have your model of GW 1500

 

Again, check the out put of the charging system before you replace or upgrade your alternator..

[FreezyRider]

As you are looking at the battery from the right side of the bike, just in front of it there is a "main link" or main fuse. These look like a very thin strip of metal. They have a nasty habit of cracking...will still carry juice when cold, but when it heats up due to current flow it can pull apart at the crack, effectively stopping the flow of current to the system. The only way to know for sure if yours is good is to remove it and see if it falls apart. Your symptoms point to a possibility of this being your problem.

Good luck, and be sure to let us know what you find as the cause of the problem.

BTW, you definitely should take that battery in and have it load tested to be positive that it is good.

[Eck]

In the main fuse panel, look for a fuse titled: "ACC TERM"

There should be a 5 amp fuse in this spot.

Check it with a meter to "ensure" it is not blown...

 

This fuse is the fuse within the electric line from Alternator to your battery so that your Alt can charge your battery.

 

[Capn Quirk]

Eck: Yes, the problem started AFTER I got the gel battery but it was nearly TWO YEARS and 10,000 miles AFTER. The battery isn't the problem.

No. The bike starts like a brand new one. Then after 15 minutes one time and an hour the next time it simply quit. Thanks for the ideas but the battery ain't my problem.

Eck: I am going to have the alternator rebuild (after Christmas bills are paid) because of the 100K miles on the bike BUT ..... the battery is NOT dead, the battery is NOT low. The charging system IS WORKING PERFECTLY. I'm dropping power !!! Just like someone unplugs it as I go down the road.

Freezy Rider: Good thought. I'll check that. Thermal expansion makes sense. My current line of reasoning is the main relay coming out of the battery. All power wires to every system start at the "Out" side of that relay. I was wondering if it were internally charred or corroded (like a set of points in the olden days) would it cause this? This would explain the loss of power to the coils and the lack of power to the starter and then 5 minutes later all being right with the world. I TRULY HATE throwing money at a problem so I was hoping to hear of someone having a similar problem.

[FreezyRider]

Eck: Yes, the problem started AFTER I got the gel battery but it was nearly TWO YEARS and 10,000 miles AFTER. The battery isn't the problem.

No. The bike starts like a brand new one. Then after 15 minutes one time and an hour the next time it simply quit. Thanks for the ideas but the battery ain't my problem.

Eck: I am going to have the alternator rebuild (after Christmas bills are paid) because of the 100K miles on the bike BUT ..... the battery is NOT dead, the battery is NOT low. The charging system IS WORKING PERFECTLY. I'm dropping power !!! Just like someone unplugs it as I go down the road.

Freezy Rider: Good thought. I'll check that. Thermal expansion makes sense. My current line of reasoning is the main relay coming out of the battery. All power wires to every system start at the "Out" side of that relay. I was wondering if it were internally charred or corroded (like a set of points in the olden days) would it cause this? This would explain the loss of power to the coils and the lack of power to the starter and then 5 minutes later all being right with the world. I TRULY HATE throwing money at a problem so I was hoping to hear of someone having a similar problem.

 

And that Main link that I described is the first point of failure out of the battery....except for the cable, that is. I'll be surprised if it isn't your problem. I have read countless posts on the GW forums about it. Good Luck with your "hunt".

[Capn Quirk]

Thanks again, Freezy R. I'll check that first thing in the morning.

[dray]

all most sounds like my old chevy when the pickup coil went it used to do the same thing

[KarlS]

Now don't forget as soon as we put jumper cables on it from my van it started right up. He would keep the rpm's up and go. As soon as he had to slow down or stop, it would stall. A quick jump and off he'd go. But the battery would be fully charged when he got home and checked it. Like the old chevy starters used to do when the armature would go bad. Up here we used to call it starter ride. BUT the old chevy starter problem it would drag and barely turn over unless you jumped it. His Gold Wing would do nothing until you jumped it. Just my observation from being the rescuer.

[FreezyRider]

Now don't forget as soon as we put jumper cables on it from my van it started right up. He would keep the rpm's up and go. As soon as he had to slow down or stop, it would stall. A quick jump and off he'd go. But the battery would be fully charged when he got home and checked it. Like the old chevy starters used to do when the armature would go bad. Up here we used to call it starter ride. BUT the old chevy starter problem it would drag and barely turn over unless you jumped it. His Gold Wing would do nothing until you jumped it. Just my observation from being the rescuer.

 

Well now, that does put a different light on the issue. When put that way it really sounds like the battery. When you jump it from another vehicle it starts but revs have to be kept high in order to keep it running.....I used to have a 1994 Aspy, and know from experience that the alternator does not put out enough juice at idle to keep the engine running (unless you have removed fuses that run the lights). So, from what you are saying it sounds like it will run when the rpms are high enough that the alt is producing enough juice to keep it all going, but when the rpms come down, no power is getting out of that "fully charged" battery.

 

Has the battery been load tested? That would be the first thing to check at this point.

If the battery is fully charged and tests ok on a load tester, it should be able to run the bike for awhile even if the alternator is not charging at all.

 

If the battery passes all tests but still won't start or run the engine, then you need to start following the trail from the battery to the starter to see where the breakdown is.

 

I just went back and re-read the original post.....wacko gauge readings sounds suspiciously like a bad ground as others have suggested. I've seen poor ground connections do some really crazy things.

[Herb In Texas]

yep sound like a ground issue to me as well. Not real familiar with how his bike is wired but I would look for every ground spot related to primary electrical. is there a main solinoid that energizes the whole thing. poor ground side on that would also show in this fashion. The lack of capital letters is an intentional way to show uncertainty. ( for the spelling and grammer cops out there) Oh, Im on VR.org. We need Dingy to chime in he's an electrical guru.

Edited December 23, 2010 by Herb In Texas
added l to capitol then Change o to a

[Herb In Texas]

Mini-Muffin: The battery is a new gel type.

Even when the power was out the starter solenoid would buzz like it was trying to engage but didn't have the juice to fully activate.

 

makes me think solinoid is at fault

Can You remove the solinoid and disassemble it then flip the copper disk over and dress up the contact studs, As I have often done on Delco style solinoids.

Edited December 23, 2010 by Herb In Texas
everthing after the ridin' smiley

[Herb In Texas]

dis regard last post> I should use google first. Shoot my mouth off second:whistling::sign **** happens:

[FreezyRider]

makes me think solinoid is at fault

Can You remove the solinoid and disassemble it then flip the copper disk over and dress up the contact studs, As I have often done on Delco style solinoids.

 

Before going to all that trouble, I'd suggest testing the voltage at the positive terminal of the solenoid when the start button is engaged. Then test it at the connection for the starter cable and see what the difference is. Should be minor if any. If you disconnect the starter cable first to get it out of the system, you would be getting true results on the state of the solenoid. If it is good, then proceed from there.

[Herb In Texas]

Good Plan.

[schultzb1]

My buddy had a similar issue on his wing. It would work fine for days/weeks/months and then go dead. After two seasons of riding, and visiting 2 different Honda dealers, it was eventually traced to the ignition switch. Replaced the switch and has not had a glitch in 2 years.

[Capn Quirk]

My buddy had a similar issue on his wing. It would work fine for days/weeks/months and then go dead. After two seasons of riding, and visiting 2 different Honda dealers, it was eventually traced to the ignition switch. Replaced the switch and has not had a glitch in 2 years.

Now, you see, this idea sounds more like the symptoms my bike has. The problem is completely erratic with no discernible rhyme nor reason and a short time after it's acted up, it's perfectly fine. Although, this bike does not go dead unless you're riding it at speed. It'll start all day, every day in the barn but it MAY act up and make you walk if you go riding (or it may not!)

I'll keep hunting. So far I've removed and inspected the 55 amp 'main fuse' mentioned by Freezyrider and it is in perfect shape. Nothing else looks corroded or stressed or worn.

Using the factory manual electrical schematics I've discovered the common 'link' between the starting circuit and the circuit that supplies power to the coils. It's called "Starter / Cruise Relay #6" but in the index and the pictures of the electrical components I can't find any more info. It BELIEVE they're referring to the relay immediately adjacent to the battery and near the aforementioned 55 amp 'main fuse' but ...

[99silver]

I KNOW, I KNOW, I KNOW, A short between the seat and the handle bars !!

 

Just kidding, I know these type of problems are no joke, but I just had to:witch_brew:

[FreezyRider]

Hey Mike,

 

If you end up needing a relay (not a solonoid) let me know. I have a bunch of them from when I owned my 1994 Aspy, will send you one for the postage.

 

Joe