Say Goodbye To The Anti-Dives!

[skydoc_17]

The installation of a set of Progressive Fork Springs in my 87'VR brought the "New Bike Feel" back to my 24 year old motorcycle. My bike corners and stops like it never did before!

Needless to say, this was some of the best money I have spent on the "old girl" in quite some time. The other issue that I have been wondering about is the amount of electricity the front Anti- Dive Units were drawing off of the battery as they activated EVERY time I engaged the front brake. I did notice that my lights would dim somewhat when squeezing the right front brake lever. Well recently, I machined a set of 1/4 inch Stainless Steel block off plates to remove the electric Anti-Dive Units from the front of my MKII VR.

I installed them and am glad to say that they worked flawlessly, the front end does not dive when coming to a stop, due to the addition of the Progressive Front Fork Springs. The big improvement was the savings in electrical power that I am saving by the Anti-Dive units being removed. Plus it cleaned up and streamlined the front forks in the process.

If this is something that might interest you and you have an MKII VR (1986 to 1993) then try this link for some pics.

http://www.venturerider.org/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=3332&title=first-genmkii-vr-s-santi-dive-block-off-plates-21&cat=22

 

If you have the MKI VR (1983 to 1985) and are interested, try this link for some pics.

http://www.venturerider.org/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=3329&title=first-genmki-vr-anti-dive-s-sblock-off-plates-21&cat=22

 

With the removal of the Electric Anti-Dive Units from the front forks of my 87'VR I have increased battery power to the lighting system on my bike, Cleaned up the look of the front end, and noticed NO difference in the lack of front end dive when coming to a stop light or hard braking since I added the Progressive Fork Springs. Basically, I removed a set of valves that were no longer needed with the addition of the Progressives.

If you have questions about the install, please feel free to PM me.

Earl

[Venturous Randy]

By blocking off the anti-dives, would that not be like having the anti-dives engaged all the time as far as how the suspension works? I have thought about doing that, but I am afraid it would make the suspension too stiff.

RandyA

[dingy]

By blocking off the anti-dives, would that not be like having the anti-dives engaged all the time as far as how the suspension works? I have thought about doing that, but I am afraid it would make the suspension too stiff.

RandyA

 

I checked an anti-dive valve. The path through the valve is closed (blocked) when the valve is not engaged.

 

Gary

[Snaggletooth]

Well Dang Earl. I'm in. I like yours a lot better than what I was working on.

 

Mike

[skydoc_17]

Hey Randy,

You have asked a VERY Important question about the function of the Anti-Dive Valves on your VR and hopefully I will be able to give you a concise answer. There are actually two different fluid flow paths inside any telescopic front fork suspension system, which is the system the First Gen. VR uses. The first fluid flow path is controlled by the Anti-Dive Valves. So basically, the Progressive Fork Springs replace the hydraulic dampening action of the Anti-Dive Valves with mechanical (greater, progressive spring tension) action. That is why the stock fork springs MUST be replaced with the Progressive Fork Springs (or some other aftermarket enhanced fork springs) for the block off plates to work. You can't remove the hydraulic dampening system without replacing it with another dampening system. In this case, we have replaced it with the mechanical dampening of the Progressive Fork Springs.

The actual dampening of the front fork tubes under heavy decell is handled by the second fluid flow path, which still allows the telescopic fork tubes to compress, and remains unchanged because this flow path and the flow path with the Anti-Dive Valves are two different systems. We have replaced the first fluid flow path with a more modern mechanical dampening system, and have not changed the second fluid flow path.

The result is no more "pogo stick" affect unchecked spring rebound in sweeper turns, and

in the case of the MKII VR's, you have completely removed the massive current draw of the electric actuators in the Anti-Dive Valves. As for the MKI VR's, you have removed the two Hydraulic valves, AND the two brake lines that connect to the front calipers. To say that this decreases the problems with brake bleeding is an understatement! I took a lesson from the 2nd Gen. front fork system (don't tell them that!) and improved the dampening action mechanically ten fold, and eliminated the hydraulic dampening action of the Anti-Dive Valves. It's as simple as that. I tested this extensively on my own First Gen. VR before I offered these parts in the Classifieds section. I installed the Progressive fork springs first, noted the "feel" of the new springs, then added the block off plates and rode some more. I can honestly say that the removal of the Anti-Dive Valves had NO adverse affect on the handling of my motorcycle, and the benefits were a tremendous increase in the availability of battery power during the activation of the braking system.

As with ALL of the kits I sell on the internet and in the Classifieds, I am the "Crash Test Dummy"! If I haven't used it, I don't talk about it.

If anyone has any other questions about this kit, please feel free to post here, or PM me if you like.

Earl

[Bill W.]

How about a special deal to all those 1985 Venture riders out there from Iowa, who are left handed hockey playing veterans, who want the anti-dive kit AND the stainless steel de-link line kit????? After all, it is SUNDAY, SUNDAY, SUNDAY!!!;);););)

 

In all seriousness, can the front master cylinder handle both the front calipers?? And, is the fourth hose in the de-link kit for the rear caliper?? I sure could use the upgrade!!

 

Thanks

 

Bill W.

[skydoc_17]

Well Bill,

You made me laugh brother, and that gets you points in my book! I sent you a PM, I'm sure we can work something out when you buy more than one item.

Thanks for the belly laugh,

Earl

[CrazyHorse]

As usual nice thinking out of the box. Im thinking of going with no air shock system progressives front and rear. The rear one is quite expensive. I have noticed bouncing in sweepers on mine. Think I night do this mod

[skydoc_17]

Hey Jimbob,

You were one of the first people I talked to about the R1 Calipers on the front of the First Gen. VR's. So in a way, "YOU Started This" quest to blend modern technology with these wonderful old bikes we all own. Because I have the time and equipment to experiment with many different upgrades to the First Gen. VR's, when I find an upgrade that functions well, solves a problem with our bikes, or just looks "Cool", I try to share it with the other members that have the same bike. I am looking forward to 2011, and the possibility of addressing other issues that are common to us First Gen. owners.

Thank you for "pushing" me out of my comfort zone, and opening up a whole new world of possibilities as far as our bikes go.

Earl

[Snaggletooth]

Hey Earl!

 

The blockoff plates arrived today. Very nice fit and finish. Now I really got to get to work on polishing the lower tubes so they are as good looking as the plates.

 

Thanks, nice job buddy.

 

Mike

[skydoc_17]

Hey Mike,

Thanks for the kind words about the block off plates! Because there are literally NO straight edges on outside of this part, and I am milling these parts on a manual mill, this project has been one of the more complicated parts I have production machined at home. I am using my milling machine and a rotary table to create all of the radii around the outside of the part. Not to mention that this 304 Stainless Steel is some pretty tough stuff to machine! Would you mind posting a pic of the plates installed? I don't personally own a MKI VR, (and the MKII VR has a different configuration) and was wondering what the finished install looked like.

Thanks again for the kudos, This has been a very exciting project to accomplish!

Earl

[kevin-vic-b.c.]

The progressive springs are my next purchase, I ordered a fork brace the other day. I wonder if I am able to disconnect the anti dive system electricly and keep the devises mounted on the forks. It may seem odd to some that I ask this but I am doing what I can to keep the bike "true" as a collector bike.

[capn eddie]

Earl is still making mine , so it's good to here some of you got yours so mine should be done soon. right grasshopper. like earl said we need pictures of the ones that got there's mounted so the rest of us have something to look at while we wait for ours to get to us. thank's Earl for your time . ED

[Snaggletooth]

Hey Cap'n,

 

Maybe these will help. I am rebuilding a set of forks for my '84 so I had the old bottoms on the bench. Hope to get the tubes polished up to shine or possibly have them chromed. All depends on time and money.

 

The plates have a nice recess in them to retain the o-rings. Not going to slip off center. For working with a manual milling machine Earl did a nice job. Lots of work went into these.

 

They really clean up the lines of the forks.

 

Mike

[Guest Swifty]

The progressive springs are my next purchase, I ordered a fork brace the other day. I wonder if I am able to disconnect the anti dive system electricly and keep the devises mounted on the forks. It may seem odd to some that I ask this but I am doing what I can to keep the bike "true" as a collector bike.

yeah that.

Anyone have an answer?

[dingy]

If you disconnect the electric to valves it will accomplish almost the same thing as the block off valves. You should probably consider progressive springs prior to doing this.

 

I have been working on a drawing and write up for the forks & anti dives. I hope it will help detail some of the inner workings of a 1st gen fork.

 

One thing I have discovered while doing the drawing is that the anti dive valve is open when the brakes are not applied.

 

I can see little benefit from the anti dives from what I have seen from the internals.

 

Few preliminary shots attached.

 

Gary

[skydoc_17]

Hey Gary,

THose are EXCELLENT Graphics you have there! I can see those going into the Tech. Library in the near future. As always, you have out done yourself!

Thanks for taking the time to share these great pics with us.

Earl

[Rick Butler]

Great job Earl,

 

This is some class machining with an item that has been needed for some time now. I wish they were available in 99 when I installed my first set of RaceTech Cartridge Emulators to my 93, which completely destroy the standard dampening and the function of the antidive units. But my solution was to leave the units on and cut the wires off flush covered by a dab of black RTV.

 

Now I don't mean to correct you, but functionally the fork springs have nothing to do with the dampening of the forks on any of our Ventures. I could go on to explain this, but Paul Thede (who founded Race Tech) has already done this for me which I have attached. The article is really about how cartridge forks work, but before he can do that he explains how our dampening rod forks function. But im simple terms, the damping is controled by pushing oil through a set of compression and rebound holes in the dampening rod.

 

Now you have done your bike a GREAT service by just replacing the oem forks springs with the heavier Progressive springs. Now back years ago, the first thing I did to a new Venture was to install both the Progressive front and rear springs. But more lately I have discovered that constant rate springs like those sold by Race Tech and Sonic, etc are really a much better solution for fork springs. For years our manufactures have given us a wimply set of springs front and rear, but have supplemented them with air to set the ride height to minimize sag and even antidive to keep the forks from bottoming out at hard front braking. With the proper spring rate and preload spacer, neither of these are needed.

 

That is why the only thing you can do to change dampening is to change the size of these holes (to allow more flow) or change the weight and height of the oil in the fork. Unless you install Race Tech Cartridge Emulators where you have complete control of both (or just one) compression and rebound dampening. In other words, the bumps just go away.

 

Like I said, great product and I hope I have helped clear up some of these issues,

 

Rick

[Flyinfool]

http://i769.photobucket.com/albums/xx331/Owen1950/Album%201/27572d1234665383-09-heritage-big-ra.jpg

[Snaggletooth]

You are right Jeff.....

 

Here ya go.

[capn eddie]

Thank's snaggletooth for the pictures , earl said he shipped mine the same day he sent yours so mine should get here today. Earl did a great job in making these and with a manual mill it had to be a lot of labor involved. like i said THANK"S EARL YOU THE MAN

Ed.

[Flyinfool]

You are right Jeff.....

 

Here ya go.

 

In my best 3 stooges voice Hmmm, a wise guy.....

[Snaggletooth]

:rotf:

[capn eddie]

Hey earl i recieved mine today they look great,now all i have to do is install them:thumbsup:

[mm482]

Earl, got my parts yesterday and now I got to get them on the bike.

 

 

Earl

MM482