Loss of electric!!

[dingy]

Another common denominator point could be the main harness -E- connector.

 

The Red/Green wire that feeds backup power to the Audio and the dash runs through this connector.

 

The RSV schematics that I redrew are linked below if you haven't already found them. (Hyperlink in blue to schematics on VR site in tech library)

 

I can not guarantee these are 100% correct, but they seem to be easier to follow than the official wiring diagrams Yamaha provides.

 

The difference between the two main wiring diagram is the one titled

99-09 Yamaha Royal Star Venture Wiring Diagram Rev B.pdf shows all the connectors and the point to point wiring.

 

The one labeled

99-09 Yamaha Royal Star Venture Simplified Circuit Diagram Rev B.pdf has had the electrical connectors omitted. This allows the related circuits to be laid out so the wiring is easier to follow.

 

Electrically, they are identical, just in different formats.

 

Gary

Edited December 9, 2010 by dingy

[dingy]

Interesting - I stand corrected.

 

I do not know which year owner's manual that comes from, but the 05 owner's manual and the 1999 RSV shop manual both refer to this fuse as the "Backup" fuse. And the fuse box on my 05 is also labeled as "Backup".

 

It is good to know that some years apparently used a different name for it - thank you.

Goose

 

Below is a cut of the cover page for owners manual I referenced.

 

Title page has a date of April 2002, 1st edition.

 

Gary

 

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af193/gdingy101/OwnersmanualRSVfrontpage.jpg

[V7Goose]

Title page has a date of April 2002, 1st edition.

That is for a 2003 model year.

Goose

[bkuhr]

Goose -

 

The battery is at 12.8 volts.

 

Outcome of testing:

Test 1 = 12.8

Test 2 = 12.5

Test 3 = 12.5

Test 4.1 = 12.5

Test 4.2 = 12.3

Test 4.3 = 12.3 at left side of fuse connection

 

Next?

 

Interesting numbers here. Something on the bike did turn on during test #2 when key was turned to ACC causing .3v drop. Then what happened in step 4.2-4.3, only removed a fuse? With fuse removal voltage drop (if caused buy circuit fuse removed from) should have decreased (higher voltage reading) or had no effect on system voltage if circuit was not actively causing voltage drop. Also as these drops were consistantly from high to low, it is possible the battery is draining, as would be expected with systems energized, but should not drain if in fact all systems are dead, unless internal short in battery. Wondering what repeat of step 1 would indicate.

 

Still thinking a loose or corroded contact somewhere, likely ground. Suggest do some of of V7Goose's tests both with voltmeter, but also use 12v test light. The test light will ensure a circuit is not just reading high impedance voltage, but can also pull a load (lighting the light).

[V7Goose]

Interesting numbers here. Something on the bike did turn on during test #2 when key was turned to ACC causing .3v drop. Then what happened in step 4.2-4.3, only removed a fuse? With fuse removal voltage drop (if caused buy circuit fuse removed from) should have decreased (higher voltage reading) or had no effect on system voltage if circuit was not actively causing voltage drop. Also as these drops were consistantly from high to low, it is possible the battery is draining, as would be expected with systems energized, but should not drain if in fact all systems are dead, unless internal short in battery. Wondering what repeat of step 1 would indicate.

 

Still thinking a loose or corroded contact somewhere, likely ground. Suggest do some of of V7Goose's tests both with voltmeter, but also use 12v test light. The test light will ensure a circuit is not just reading high impedance voltage, but can also pull a load (lighting the light).

Good ideas, but those minor drops in the voltage readings are consistent with longer runs of thinner wires, just like you find in the specific circuits under test. Everything looks normal there to me (other than the fact the magic radio is still refusing to operate)..

Goose

[wes0778]

If this has already been checked, sorry I missed it, but have you checked to see if there is a large voltage drop between the negative battery post and the frame of the bike, with the ignition switch on?

[RedRider]

RR,

I think this is the connector you are speaking of that shorts out..

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=32359

 

Yup, that's it. Mine looks about like the one shown in the picture - hole and all. Replaced with a could of heavy spade connectors.

 

RR

[dingy]

RR,

I think this is the connector you are speaking of that shorts out..

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=32359

 

Not trying to pick nits here, but the picture is of a connector that is correctly called a High Resistance Connection, not a short.

 

The purpose of the connector shown is to provide an electrical path through itself.

 

The term Short is often misused when describing electrical problems. A short is an unintended path for current. It could be from positive to ground, or it could be from one positive connector to another normally unconnected positive conductor. Or, in the case of switched negative side wiring, it would be unintended current paths. The horn circuit is an example of switched negative side circuits on Ventures.

The term Open means that a path for current that has been interrupted, or broken.

 

A High Resistance Connection is an intended path for current that has a higher than normal resistance reading. When the flow of current passes through a resistive element, the by product of this is heat. In the photo, the heat generated by this high resistance connection is what damaged the plastic housing.

 

The term High resistance, only means higher than designed, it may not be a thousand ohms resistance reading, but more likely in the 1-10 ohm range. Low enough to allow current to pass, while creating heat in the process.

 

Gary

Edited December 9, 2010 by dingy
spelling

[COSuperfly]

The latest testing:

 

Connectors apper to be fine.

Headlight or tail lights do not come on with switch to ON.

With switch ON, headlight fuse reads .60 volts.

Main fairing ground secure to side of bracket and to frame.

 

Negative battery post and frame:

With ACC - 9.7

With ON - .34

 

So it appears I have a grounding issue?

[V7Goose]

The latest testing:

 

Connectors apper to be fine.

Headlight or tail lights do not come on with switch to ON.

With switch ON, headlight fuse reads .60 volts.

Main fairing ground secure to side of bracket and to frame.

 

Negative battery post and frame:

With ACC - 9.7

With ON - .34

 

So it appears I have a grounding issue?

Well, a ground issue certainly answers most of the symptoms, but that should have shown up back in test 3 where you measured the voltage between the brown/black wire and front forks.

 

The voltage reading between the negative terminal and the frame was a good test, but I would have expected just the reverse reading that you posted - the higher current drain from the lights with the key on should have generated the larger voltage over a bad ground connection. But even with a bad ground somewhere, you should have a full 12 volts on the inside fuse connection for the headlight fuse when the key is on, so that .6 volts is quite strange (but it could explain the lower reading between the battery and frame).

 

Have you actually removed both cables from the battery and scraped them clean? Even if there is no corrosion showing, they could have contact problems. It is not that uncommon on car batteries for a thin hard glass-like layer to build up over the entire inside surface of the battery cable connector, which can cause these types of problems. When that happens, scraping the soft lead with a knife blade sounds like scraping a rock until the coating is removed. If you haven't already done it, take off both cables and scrape both contact surfaces on the battery terminal and all connectors.

 

After you do that, let's double-check the voltage at the headlight and ignition fuses. Both of those are an effective straight connection to the BROWN/BLUE wire in the same ignition switch plug with the RED wire, so when the key is on you should always have 12V on the inside contact (closest to the battery) for those fuses in the fuse box. Make that test three times, once with the black meter lead directly on the negative battery post (not any of the wires connected to the battery, but directly to the soft lead post, once with the black meter lead on the frame (make sure not on paint), and once with the black meter lead on the engine. If there is a ground circuit problem, that should show it.

 

Finally, if you do not have 12 volts at the fuse box with the key on, go back to the two-wire plug from the ignition switch and test for 12V on the BROWN/BLUE wire with the key on. Make this test from the back of the plug that does NOT go to the switch. In other words, you are testing for 12V that has gone through the plug once on the red wire, through the ignition switch, and then back through the plug on the brown/blue wire.

Goose

[bkuhr]

Not sure about the RSV, but on the 83 there is a large gauge wire that runs from battery neg post to the engine casing(provides high current ground for starter and spark plugs, and engine is typically isolated from frame ground due to rubber engine mounts)

There is also a smaller gauge wire from battery neg post, (some times in the same terminal lug as the large wire) thru a 1 wire connector, then into bike wiring harness, eventually getting to the frame ground points.

 

Would recommend good inspection/ cleaning/ testing of this 1 wire connector. Also check for corrosion on frame side of ground connections same as V7Goose suggested to check on battery side. If the small wire is in the same terminal lug as the large wire, there could be problems in this crimp splice such as broken copper strands/ corrosion...

 

Also to verify ground problem, suggest take auto jumper cables, and attach black to battery neg post and other black to unpainted point on frame. This would bypass any ground to frame problems and everything should work, and prove the ground problem.

[COSuperfly]

A MIRACLE !!!!

 

So I tried everything all have posted and nothing. I studied the wiring diagrams until I went dizzy. I was standing by the bike scratching my head and wondering what to do next and at the same time, squeezing the clutch lever over and over in my frustration. I trurned the ignition switch to ON and low and behold, the lights and radio came on and was able to crank the engine!!!!

 

Whats up with that???

[dingy]

A MIRACLE !!!!

 

So I tried everything all have posted and nothing. I studied the wiring diagrams until I went dizzy. I was standing by the bike scratching my head and wondering what to do next and at the same time, squeezing the clutch lever over and over in my frustration. I trurned the ignition switch to ON and low and behold, the lights and radio came on and was able to crank the engine!!!!

 

Whats up with that???

 

A miracle, I don't think so.

 

 

What happened was something corrected itself enough to give you the confidence to take a ride, and stop and have a beverage or ice cream cone.

 

Then, when you go to leave, the nasty little gremlin will peek itself out and go Gotcha.

 

Bike will not start, no radio, and you will stand there feverishly pumping the clutch lever till your hand goes numb to no avail.

 

Keep looking, clean the battery connections, something was causing this problem, it is not the last time you will experience this.

 

Gary

[V7Goose]

That is certainly a candidate for the miracle review committee. I cannot even suggest any possibilities. There is a clutch switch that works in conjunction with the neutral switch to cut out the ignition and starter, but no friggin way it could ever have any effect whatsoever on the radio or lights, or the voltage available at the headlight fuse.

 

If you didn't actually find and fix the cause of this problem, methinks you will get bit again when you least expect it.

 

Oh well, I'm glad it is fixed!

Goose

[dmoff1698]

Just now saw this thread.

A couple years ago I had exactly this problem on my 99. Long story short, ended up being the starter relay. When I finally found it, my relay/holder assy was completely encrusted in corrosion. The relay holder block is also the primary power distribution point for the rest of the bike. I could read voltage in all the right places, but as soon as ANY load was applied, the voltage would go to 0.

 

Remove the left side cover, then follow the + lead from the battery to just below the battery box. I could just barely see it through the side.

 

I got a quarter that says you will find yours has corrosion or has a loose connection at the terminal where the battery lead connects.

 

I had to remove the battery and box to get enough room to get it cleaned up. You may be luckier than me.

[BradT]

Inside the fairing on the back of the radio there is a braided ground wire, covered in a plastic tube it goes to the frame on the right side of the bike. under the plastic steering head (not sure the name) cover. Gas tank needs to be off.

 

This one caused me some grief a while ago. Moving the handlebars from side to side made things better, but it always came back until I found the corroded wire at the frame.

 

Does not hurt to check and clean this one.

 

Brad

[mbrood]

These "ghost" problems that suddenly "cure" themselves are most often waiting to come back. Odds are that with your "jiggling" wires and connectors, you "found" the area of trouble but didn't know it... I would suggest going back in... with the radio on in the ACC position, wiggle the heck out of anything you can touch!

[Sleeperhawk]

A MIRACLE !!!!

 

So I tried everything all have posted and nothing. I studied the wiring diagrams until I went dizzy. I was standing by the bike scratching my head and wondering what to do next and at the same time, squeezing the clutch lever over and over in my frustration. I trurned the ignition switch to ON and low and behold, the lights and radio came on and was able to crank the engine!!!!

 

Whats up with that???

 

I would like to know did you remove the battery wires and clean them, or did you ever remove them? I found that mine would loose electricity, but found the battery terminals to be the culprit, especially the ground one. Finally cleaned them real good and the battery terminal, tightened them with a wrench, not the phillips screwdriver, no more electrical issues.