Loss of electric!!

[COSuperfly]

2001 RSV with 55k miles.

 

Went to start my bike and didn't wait for the 'clicking' fuel pump? to stop before I pressed the starter button. I quickly let off of the starter switch - the bike didn't have enough time to start but did briefly crank. I then set the ignition switch to off, then on, and no power at all; no fuel pump noise, no lights, no radio, nothing. Same thing after numerous attempts.

 

What I have done:

All fuses including the main checked and ok. Even replaced some including main.

Battery terminals clean and wires secure.

Battery checked and voltage is fine.

Wires clean and secure to the starter relay.

Replaced the ignition main switch with a new one because it was showing signs wear.

 

Still no power when the ignition switch is set to on or acc.

 

What else should I check?

[Eck]

Ignition Switch failure... Need to by-pass it or replace it..

 

This is a known common problem

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=512

 

 

While your in there, you might wanna check this out too..

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=32359

[COSuperfly]

I'vr already replaced the switch.

"Replaced the ignition main switch with a new one because it was showing signs wear."

[V7Goose]

2001 RSV with 55k miles.

 

Went to start my bike and didn't wait for the 'clicking' fuel pump? to stop before I pressed the starter button. I quickly let off of the starter switch - the bike didn't have enough time to start but did briefly crank. I then set the ignition switch to off, then on, and no power at all; no fuel pump noise, no lights, no radio, nothing. Same thing after numerous attempts.

 

What I have done:

All fuses including the main checked and ok. Even replaced some including main.

Battery terminals clean and wires secure.

Battery checked and voltage is fine.

Wires clean and secure to the starter relay.

Replaced the ignition main switch with a new one because it was showing signs wear.

 

Still no power when the ignition switch is set to on or acc.

 

What else should I check?

Well, you mentioned you 'checked' a lot of things, and even replaced some things without determining if they were really bad first, but you didn't mention using a volt meter at all except for saying the battery voltage was good. Starting with the fuses was the obvious first thing, but after that, making random checks is not the best way to stumble on the problem.

 

Since you are dealing with a complete lack of power, this should be very easy to find. Get out the schematic and volt meter and start actually checking for voltage where it is supposed to be. Start with the main plug for the ignition switch to see if there is voltage going IN to the switch; this will quickly let you know if you should concentrate back near the battery and main fuse or some of those other places you have been thinking about. Make all the voltage checks using the negative lead on the battery ground terminal, not some random place on the engine or frame.

 

Not everyone knows how to read a schematic (and Yamahaha's version sucks), so let me know if you need help and I'll dig it out and give you specific test points.

Goose

[Guest scarylarry]

Goose do you need to let the pump stop clicking before starting the motor?

 

I never heard of that reason I'm asking.

[V7Goose]

Goose do you need to let the pump stop clicking before starting the motor?

 

I never heard of that reason I'm asking.

That is not necessary, but for some of us it seems to be a normal inclination. I often find myself waiting for it to stop without thinking about it.

 

As long as the pump is clicking, at least one of the float bowls is not quite full, but that does not mean there isn't enough gas to start the engine. Unless the bike has been sitting for a week or more, you should be able to just hit the starter as soon as the key is on and it should fire right up.

Goose

[Guest scarylarry]

Thanks you sir...I just wonder from his wording of it..

Cause had it been the other way I would have been going oops..

[bkuhr]

Well, you mentioned you 'checked' a lot of things, and even replaced some things without determining if they were really bad first, but you didn't mention using a volt meter at all except for saying the battery voltage was good. Starting with the fuses was the obvious first thing, but after that, making random checks is not the best way to stumble on the problem.

 

Since you are dealing with a complete lack of power, this should be very easy to find. Get out the schematic and volt meter and start actually checking for voltage where it is supposed to be. Start with the main plug for the ignition switch to see if there is voltage going IN to the switch; this will quickly let you know if you should concentrate back near the battery and main fuse or some of those other places you have been thinking about. Make all the voltage checks using the negative lead on the battery ground terminal, not some random place on the engine or frame.

 

Not everyone knows how to read a schematic (and Yamahaha's version sucks), so let me know if you need help and I'll dig it out and give you specific test points.

Goose

 

I agree with every thing V7Goose says here, with one caviet. A meter requires a good contact on both the + and - side to get a reliable reading, and when troubleshooting, it makes sense and is recommended to eliminate one side (50%)of this issue by attaching the ground side of the meter directly to the battery neg post. Then readings, or lack of readings can be trusted to be + side problems. The flip side of this issue, is you could complete all tests quoted here, and still have the same problem- no electric. This is because the ground side of a circuit is required just as much as the positive side for the circuit to work. During your testing I recommend after you get a good reading per V7Goose's procedure, at say the main fuse, you record that exact reading, then move meter neg to the motor case. The reading should be the same as above, if lower or not at all, you have a loose or corroded ground wire from the battery to the motor case. Also repeat the same to the bike frame. I also noticed is your list of work you completed, you did not mention checking engine and frame grounds.

[mbrood]

For $4 you can toss this multimeter in your bag and test a lot of roadside problems. I disconnect the battery so there's never a drain down and replace it each Halloween along with my smoke alarm batteries. Not terribly pretty but if you left it on a roadside... oh well...

 

http://www.harborfreight.com/7-function-digital-multimeter-90899.html

 

http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/370x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_2304.jpg

 

 

I've ALWAYS used chassis ground for all testing... starting with a first test at the fuse panel. If you have 12V there... continue on...

[RedRider]

There is a connector under the tank that has a tendency to smoke. It is a main line into the ignition switch. I seem to recall it is blue. (no, red - AAAHHHHHHHHH - Monty Python fans may get this). This connector going bad prevents anything from happening.

 

The connector sits right on top of the frame as you remove the tank. Had this happen to me in downtown Chicago. Not good. Cut out the connector and replaced it with a couple of spade terminals and haven't had a problem since.

 

Update - the connector color is a faded RED - almost PINK.

 

RR

Edited December 9, 2010 by RedRider

[Eck]

There is a connector under the tank that has a tendency to smoke. It is a main line into the ignition switch. I seem to recall it is blue. (no, red - AAAHHHHHHHHH - Monty Python fans may get this). This connector going bad prevents anything from happening.

 

The connector sits right on top of the frame as you remove the tank. Had this happen to me in downtown Chicago. Not good. Cut out the connector and replaced it with a couple of spade terminals and haven't had a problem since.

 

RR

 

RR,

I think this is the connector you are speaking of that shorts out..

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=32359

[GaryZ]

Two things come to mind;

 

1. You probably looked at this when you changed the ignition switch. However, my VR lost all power when I turned the handlebars to the left. I traced it to a large red wire connection on the ignition switch. Soldered it back together and have not had the problem again.

 

2. Fused Link. It seems to me there is one of these things near my battery. It looks like a small black plastic box, an over-sized fuse holder.

[COSuperfly]

Thank y'all for all the help. I know just enough about electrical circuits to get me in trouble. I get alittle overwhelmed by all the wires.

 

The ground is secure to the motor mount and tested out.

There is power going to the switch.

 

I guess the next step is see if power is going out of the switch. It should be since its new and the previous one was working.

 

From the switch, then where?

 

Thanks a bunch!!

Sparky

[V7Goose]

Since you say there is no power to anything, ACC or key on, we'll start with a couple of basic tests.

 

The ignition switch has two plugs - the two-wire plug has a big red wire which is the power in, and a brown/blue wire, which is the power out with the key ON. The three wire plug has a brown/black wire, which is the power out with the key in ACC. To test these wires, you need to find a small solid wire or straight pin that you can slip in the back of the plug next to the wire and touch the back of the metal pin inside the plug.

 

TEST 1:

Start with the key off and the negative meter lead on the battery negative terminal. Do not disconnect the plugs. Use the pin to test the RED wire in the plug for +12V.

 

TEST 2:

Assuming you have 12V on the red wire, turn the key to ACC and switch to the BROWN/BLACK wire in the other plug to the ignition switch. Probe that wire from the back just like you did for the red wire - it should also have +12V.

 

TEST 3:

Assuming you find 12V there, move the negative meter lead from the battery to something metal on the front forks and test the BROWN/BLACK wire again - you should still get +12V. This test just verifies the ground circuit from the front end back to the battery. If it is good, you can make all the remaining tests with the negative lead back on the battery negative terminal.

 

At this point, I am going to assume you have 12V on the red wire and 12V on the brown/black wire with the key in ACC. So now we are gong to check the power distribution on the ACC circuit by testing for 12V in three different places:

 

TEST 4.1: Check for 12V on the center contact in the bottom of the accessory power plug in the left side of the fairing.

TEST 4.2: There is a flat white plug near the back left corner of the battery - this is the rear accessory plug. Pull off the cap and test for 12V on the BROWN/BLACK or BROWN/RED wire in this plug (the schematic is not clear which color wire you might see, but I think it will be brown/black).

TEST 4.3: Now go to the #1 fuse box and remove the AUDIO fuse. Test for 12V on both of the fuse connections in the fuse block (only one of them should be 12V, but I cannot tell you which one).

 

Make those tests and let me know what you find and we will go from there.

Goose

Edited December 8, 2010 by V7Goose
Chage "main" fuse box to "#1" to match owner's manual

[COSuperfly]

Goose -

 

The battery is at 12.8 volts.

 

Outcome of testing:

Test 1 = 12.8

Test 2 = 12.5

Test 3 = 12.5

Test 4.1 = 12.5

Test 4.2 = 12.3

Test 4.3 = 12.3 at left side of fuse connection

 

Next?

[cecdoo]

Did ya check the "kill" switch:think:

[V7Goose]

Well sir, you have said that you get no power to the radio at all when you turn the key to ACC, but the tests you have just done show that the ignition switch and the ACC power circuits are working fine, as well as the ground return circuit from the front forks. I can see two possibilities for the radio being dead:

 

1. The radio is turned off. In this case, you would still see the dim orange light in the buttons when the key is in the ACC position, and the radio should come on immediately if you hit the Audio button.

 

2. Your 10A Backup fuse is blown - this will kill the radio even with the key on.

 

Please test both the Audio fuse and the Backup fuse and let me know.

Goose

[COSuperfly]

The backup fuse is good. I even replaced it with a new one.

The radio is not on and will not turn on with the switch to ACC or ON. No orange lights.

I performed the tests exactly as you instructed and the voltage readings are correct.

 

Still no lights, no fuel pump noise no nothing when the switch is either in ACC or ON position.

 

Anthing else it might be or is it time to take it to a dealer?

[COSuperfly]

Audio fuse is good and new.

[V7Goose]

It wouldn't hurt to go ahead and verify you have 12V to one of the Backup fuse connections just like you did for the Audio fuse. It is unlikely you will have a problem with the wiring here, but since you already have the fuse box open, it is an easy check. I am only focusing on the audio system since you say everything is totally dead. Under the circumstances, it is highly unlikely that you have two different problems, so whatever gets the radio to turn on will most likely fix all the problems - but that also means that the problem has to be something that is common to both the audio system and the dash (because you do not have any dash warning lights)

 

I am still looking at the schematic for the next check, but I am suspecting a ground problem inside the fairing. I believe there is a ground wire connection on the left side of the subframe around the radio (going from memory), along with a large braided ground wire that ties this frame back to the main frame or engine. Go ahead and split the fairing and do a manual inspection of the wires around there, and I'll give you more ideas soon.

Goose

[dingy]

Check the Odometer fuse - 10 amps

 

This supplies the radio & some, if not all cluster power.

 

Gary

[V7Goose]

Check the Odometer fuse - 10 amps

 

This supplies the radio & some, if not all cluster power.

 

Gary

There is nothing called an "Odometer fuse" on a 2nd gen. If you are referring to the Backup fuse, he has already verified that.

[V7Goose]

COSuperfly, you may need to wait for me to split my own fairing in the next day or two for me to point you to the appropriate checks for the combined fairing grounds - these are not identified on the schematic. I'll get in there either tomorrow or Friday.

 

But you can see a drawing of the main fairing ground on page 8-54 of the shop manual. This wire is on the shifter side of the radio.

 

But in the mean time, I would like you to check if the tail light is coming on with the key. The headlight will share the combined fairing ground, but I'm pretty sure that the tail light will use a different ground path back to the battery, so it should be coming on. If it is not, pull the headlight fuse and check for 12V on one of the connections when the key is ON.

Goose

Edited December 8, 2010 by V7Goose

[dingy]

Below are two cuts from the RSV owners manual referring to an Odometer fuse.

 

I do not have an RSV to verify this though, which Goose does.

 

It is a common denominator in the RSV schematic I did. Though I can't determine the source of why I labeled this Odometer and not Backup. It would seem to provide unswitched power to the radio & dash, which would indicate its function is a backup supply.

 

It appears to be in fuse panel #2.

 

Gary

 

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af193/gdingy101/RSVodometerfuse1.jpg

 

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af193/gdingy101/RSVodometerfuse2.jpg

[V7Goose]

Below are two cuts from the RSV owners manual referring to an Odometer fuse.

 

I do not have an RSV to verify this though, which Goose does.

 

It is a common denominator in the RSV schematic I did. Though I can't determine the source of why I labeled this Odometer and not Backup. It would seem to provide unswitched power to the radio & dash, which would indicate its function is a backup supply.

 

It appears to be in fuse panel #2.

 

Gary

Interesting - I stand corrected.

 

I do not know which year owner's manual that comes from, but the 05 owner's manual and the 1999 RSV shop manual both refer to this fuse as the "Backup" fuse. And the fuse box on my 05 is also labeled as "Backup".

 

It is good to know that some years apparently used a different name for it - thank you.

Goose