Last (hopefully) Oil Thread of the Year

[dmoff1698]

There have been lots of discussions on the best oil to use, and every one has an opinion, but very few has said why they think their choice is better than anothers. Just what do you look for in your oil? Is your choice based on independent research reports, personal experience, smoother shifting, price or (like me) just what my daddy used?

 

With so many opinions on oil brands, surely there are good reasons for making those choices.

[Bobby G]

I hesitate to weigh in on this, because based on past posts about this, I am totally in the minority on what I think. But performance is performance, and for me, there is no substitution for good results over the long term. So I will stick with what has been used in my '99 RSV since it was new - - Yamalube sinth oil changed every 3K to 4K miles, and a Mobile 1 duel stage filter. In 10 years, never a hick up in the engine (other than a recent bout of either bad gas or a clogged fuel filter, which has now been rectified). However, any quality brand 20W50 synthetic oil, especially Mobile 1, would be welcome in my bike if Yamalube was not available. But I will never sacrifice on filter quality. A cheap filter (ie: Fram) will never be used on this boy's scoot!

 

If I lived in a colder weather climate, I might have a somewhat different take on the viscosity of oil used, but this is what works for me from a composition, frequency of change-out, and filter standpoint. My engine with 60K on it runs like new, so that's all the proof I need.

[SilvrT]

But I will never sacrifice on filter quality. A cheap filter (ie: Fram) will never be used on this boy's scoot!.

 

OK, so this brings up another question and maybe should be a separate thread but ... why do you (or anyone for that matter) feel that a Fram filter is "cheap" and will not do the job when changed every 3-4,000 miles?

 

BTW, this is just for curiosity sake... doesn't mean I'm a "FRAM guy" LOL

Edited November 22, 2010 by SilvrT

[coy55boy]

I've read tons of reviews and studies about oil filter brands and while they seldom agree 100%, there are 3 names that seem to pop to the top of the list most of the time. Mobil 1, Amsoil, and Purolator Pure 1. The filter brand that seems to get beat up the most is Fram.

 

I use Purolator Pure 1 because it is a good quality filter at a reasonable price and readily available.

[Guest]

OK, so this brings up another question and maybe should be a separate thread but ... why do you (or anyone for that matter) feel that a Fram filter is "cheap" and will not do the job when changed every 3-4,000 miles?

 

BTW, this is just for curiosity sake... doesn't mean I'm a "FRAM guy" LOL

 

Ill take a stab at this one. About 6 years ago someone from a forum was having a very slow day one winter and decided to do an autopsy on oil filters. What he found was that most filters were fairly well constructed and the Wal-Mart SuperTech was comparable to some of the top filters. I have used the WalMart filter since 2004 with no problems. Now, on to the Fram. What was discovered was the fact that its pleats inside resembled cheap cardboard and was poorly constructed. It appeared to be very flimsy and came apart easily. Now if you change your oil religiously every 3k then it may not be a problem but why use some inferior filter if there are better ones available, some at lower cost?

 

I dont know if this applies to their car filters but I do know I will never use a Fram filter in the bike.

 

Hmmmm, I actually have an autopsy to perform this week myself. Thursday I think.....

[Bobby G]

OK, so this brings up another question and maybe should be a separate thread but ... why do you (or anyone for that matter) feel that a Fram filter is "cheap" and will not do the job when changed every 3-4,000 miles?

 

BTW, this is just for curiosity sake... doesn't mean I'm a "FRAM guy" LOL

 

It's actually pretty basic. It's the difference between paper elements and synthetic fiber elements. I like Mobil 1 because, while they are fairly expensive, their fully synthetic fiber elements do a much better job filtering small contaminants than the conventional paper elements found in cheaper filters. But despite their excellent filtering capability, these filters still flow well. Mobil 1 oil filters are manufactured by Champion Labs (same mfgr. of K&N filters).

[skydoc_17]

Hey Rick,

This is a very good question, mainly because you would think a "big name" company like FRAM would sell a quality product! I first discovered the problem with the FRAM filters a number of years ago on my 1990 GMC S15 Jimmy with the 4.3L engine. Because this vehicle is a 4X4, there is no room for the standard oil filter location because of the front axle. General Motors ran a set of oil lines up to the left front fender to an adapter where a spin on filter is attached. I thought it was a great idea because I didn't have to lay on the ground to change the oil filter when doing an oil change! When I heard about the trouble with the FRAM filters, I added a oil pressure gage to the oil filter adapter on the left front fender of my truck to see for myself if the oil filter problem was hype or fact. I ran three FRAM filters in a row, (same thread, different lengths) and the best I could get was at a little over 1000 miles, the filter went to bypass, (which means the check valve ball dropped, blocking the oil from passing thru the filter medium, and returned to the engine unfiltered!) The shortest of the three filters went to bypass after only 450 miles! Since then, I have run the Puralator filters, and NEVER had one of those filters go to bypass in the 10 plus years I have been using them. When I cut the FRAM filters open for inspection, I found that there was such a small amount of filter medium inside of them that after a very short period of time, the filter medium gets clogged up and causes the bypass check valve to engage. You don't even realize it it has gone to bypass because the oil flows thru the filter, just NOT thru the filter medium! That made a believer out of me, to say the least! I wouldn't run a FRAM oil filter on my lawn mower it if used an oil filter much less my cars or trucks. Just an FYI, the STP oil filters are made by FRAM, so I won't use those filters as well.

Now, to answer the question about oil use, I run the 20W50 Castrol GTX oil with the red cap because my 87'VR sees very high revs all the time, it is easy to get, (Wal-Mart, Advance Auto) it is a reasonable price, and it has provided excellent service to me over the years. Because I have been pretty deep into quite a few of the Yamaha V4 motors, you can pretty much tell how often oil has been changed and what oil has been used by the amount of "residue" that clings to the valve covers, and rotating parts. The worst engine I ever saw was on a diet of Quaker State oil. I am a Dino guy my self, but I must admit that if you start a motor on Sync. oil early enough, they look better on the inside and the rotating parts move with less friction, from what I have seen. A lot of the VMAX guys that come to the shop run the Sync. oil for obvious reasons, and I'm OK with that. I will install what ever oil you want in your bike, after all, it is YOUR bike I'm working on! The problem I have run into in the past is if you have a motor that has say, 50,000 miles on it and has been on a diet of Dino oil, and you change to Sync. oil, the Sync. oil tends to "weep" out of places that I didn't have leakage at before. I personally have never owned a "Brand New" motorcycle, so the times I tried to switch to the Sync. oil only caused me grief. I would say the key here is, on a newer bike, if you want to run the Sync. oil, put it in the bike right from the start, and keep using it. Some day, maybe I will own a "new" bike, not just a "new to me" bike and get to use the Sync. oil, but for now, I will stick with the Dino oil, change it regularly, and use a decent quality oil filter. My attitude about this subject is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

Just my thoughts,

Earl

[SilvrT]

Hey Rick,

This is a very good question, mainly because you would think a "big name" company like FRAM would sell a quality product! Earl

 

yep ... I raised the question in hopes of getting good answers such as yours for the benefit of some of the new folks and maybe those not in-the-know. I personally don't use Fram either ... and for those reason's specifically. My personal preference is the Purolator one (14610 I think).

 

As for those looking at "Motomaster" (Canadian Tire) filters, I believe they are made by FRAM.

[okiestar]

I run Amsoil 20/50. Why? When I purchased the bike used with a little over 9K on it, the previous owner had 3 quarts unopened in the saddlebag. He'd run it since the 1K change.

If he hadn't, I'd be running Mobil 1. Why? No research involved. I simply like the synthetic appeal.

[BradT]

I use Castrol 20W-50 and have been using it for ever. Why ? Can't remember but it is easy to get, not that expensive and has not caused me any grief.

 

More answers on the filters than the oil question, but that is interesting as well. Been using Fram on the cars for years but not the bike.

 

 

Brad

[BigBoyinMS]

Since I also have a Road Star I'm a member on the Road Star Clinic. We have a member (ScottW) that has done a LOT of research on oils. This is what he has found...

 

First, Flat tappet engines (our bike engines, most any auto older than 20 years, etc.) require an oil with Zinc dialkyldithiophosphates (often referred to as ZDDP) to prevent premature cam lobe/tappet wear. His research suggest a minimum of 1300 ppm of ZDDP for the air-cooled Roadie engine. (The water cooled Royal Star engine may possibly get by with a lower level of ZDDP but more is better.) The problem is that due to stricter standards by the E.P.A., ZDDP has been all but completely phased out of oil and most oils don't have that 1300ppm minimum.

Diesel oils as a rule still have more ZDDP than auto oils but even Rotella is only 1200ppm. Motorcycle specific oil is pretty much the only way to get a decent amount of ZDDP. To give you an idea here is an info link to all the different Mobil oils.

https://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf

And although there are lots of ZDDP additives on the market it isn't really recommended to use them since they can affect the additive packages in the oil.

 

Another issue with using non-motorcycle specific oil is that even though the API symbol may not have "Energy Conserving" it can still have friction modifiers.

 

Just a little more to think on.

[SilvrT]

Since I also have a Road Star I'm a member on the Road Star Clinic. We have a member (ScottW) that has done a LOT of research on oils. This is what he has found...

 

First, Flat tappet engines (our bike engines, most any auto older than 20 years, etc.) require an oil with Zinc dialkyldithiophosphates (often referred to as ZDDP) to prevent premature cam lobe/tappet wear. His research suggest a minimum of 1300 ppm of ZDDP for the air-cooled Roadie engine. (The water cooled Royal Star engine may possibly get by with a lower level of ZDDP but more is better.) The problem is that due to stricter standards by the E.P.A., ZDDP has been all but completely phased out of oil and most oils don't have that 1300ppm minimum.

Diesel oils as a rule still have more ZDDP than auto oils but even Rotella is only 1200ppm. Motorcycle specific oil is pretty much the only way to get a decent amount of ZDDP. To give you an idea here is an info link to all the different Mobil oils.

https://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf

And although there are lots of ZDDP additives on the market it isn't really recommended to use them since they can affect the additive packages in the oil.

 

Another issue with using non-motorcycle specific oil is that even though the API symbol may not have "Energy Conserving" it can still have friction modifiers.

 

Just a little more to think on.

 

so what you're really eluding to is that if it isn't labelled "motorcycle specific" then we could be asking for trouble....

[BigBoyinMS]

By the time I got through typing all that, that was what I got out of it. Or at least M/C specific oil should give us better service.

Personally, my next oil change will be with Mobil-1 M/C oils. My first changes after getting the bikes was Amsoil and I would still use it if they still sold it locally. But I've been using Rotella since then.

 

By the way, while I was searching for info I noticed this is a pretty big topic with a lot of the old sports car, classic car and muscle car forums.

Edited November 23, 2010 by BigBoyinMS

[bongobobny]

Wow! Sure didn't take this thread long to turn into a Fram-bash!! BTW I do not patronize Frams either, to many independant studies al reaching the same conclusion as well as a few horror stories about incidents of Fram filters coming apart internally. I appreciate Waly World filters as they are wel built and inexpensive. I also like Purolator and Bosch. Mobil1 filters are very good indeed, but may be to pricey for what little extra filtration you may or may not get.

 

For oils I have satisfactory results with Delo and Rotella diesel oils, but there is nothing wrong with spending way more for motorcycle specific oils. Just remember we have a wet clutch so no auto oils with friction preventers, etc.

 

Frequency of changes, well that's up for debate here for sure. Myself I go 3K - 4K or less if I do a blazing expressway tour across country, then I may go 2K.

 

A lot of people are overprotective of their engines and insist on the most expensive products available, thinking, sometimes erroneously, that price = quality. I sometimes think that there are owners out there that change their oil weekly or even daily...

[SilvrT]

By the time I got through typing all that, that was what I got out of it. Or at least M/C specific oil should give us better service.

Personally, my next oil change will be with Mobil-1 M/C oils. My first changes after getting the bikes was Amsoil and I would still use it if they still sold it locally. But I've been using Rotella since then.

 

By the way, while I was searching for info I noticed this is a pretty big topic with a lot of the old sports car, classic car and muscle car forums.

 

Over the first year I had my bike, I tried a number of different oils ... dino & syn ... Amsoil to Mobil-1 .... Rotella dino has been my oil of choice for a few reason's .... inexpensive, readilly available, the engine seems to like it best.

 

Castrol is another that seems to work best.

 

Everyone has their own choice and each engine, although they are the same, they're not and where/how they are driven differs as well.

 

When I had my '85 I only used YamaLube. Reason was that the prev owner (who was the original) only used that and he said he'd tried a few different ones and then stuck with that .... so I did too.

 

On my '87 I mostly used Castrol but both of those 2 bikes were high-milers when I got them. I did a dumb thing and tried syn on the '87 and almost immediately had clutch slippage. I had to remove the friction plates, etc and clean them up with emery and change the oil back to the Castrol.

 

Insofar as the Rotella, I always check the container for any new labelling that might be of concern as it relates to wet clutch application.

[GeorgeS]

I just buy Mobil I by the gallon, and use it in all my vehicals. So far so good.

 

Wall Mart seems to always have the best price.

 

I run it about 7 to 9K in my Chevy Suv's.

 

Change in the spring and in the fall for the Bikes, maby mid season if I take a long trip.