Accessory Wiring ?

[Evan]

Well, I read all the posts with great interest as I have wanted to install a Stebel horn (thanks again Bongobob) for some time now. I mounted the air horn and acquired a relay switch for wiring in accordance with the great info in this thread. The day before I was going to hook up the air horn, a Wing buddy said why do it that way. His claim was that my existing horns utilize a relay that would be all I need for the new air horn to work properly as long as I hooked up to the existing horn wires. As you can see from the pictures, I mounted the Stebel horn right behind the original horn which I left in place, so it was a 10 second job to switch the wiring from the terminals on the original horn to those on the air horn. To my pleasant surprise, it works great.

 

Is there any reason why I should not be happy with this wiring?

[dingy]

  Evan said:

Well, I read all the posts with great interest as I have wanted to install a Stebel horn (thanks again Bongobob) for some time now. I mounted the air horn and acquired a relay switch for wiring in accordance with the great info in this thread. The day before I was going to hook up the air horn, a Wing buddy said why do it that way. His claim was that my existing horns utilize a relay that would be all I need for the new air horn to work properly as long as I hooked up to the existing horn wires. As you can see from the pictures, I mounted the Stebel horn right behind the original horn which I left in place, so it was a 10 second job to switch the wiring from the terminals on the original horn to those on the air horn. To my pleasant surprise, it works great.

 

Is there any reason why I should not be happy with this wiring?

 

 

The Ventures do not have a relay for the horns.

 

You are running the current for the horn through the switch in the handle bar.

 

The purpose of the relay is to not run the full current through the switch.

 

What you did will work, but not as well as the relay setup. Relay will allow horn current without overheating or causing a voltage drop.

 

Gary

[saddlebum]

  Evan said:

Well, I read all the posts with great interest as I have wanted to install a Stebel horn (thanks again Bongobob) for some time now. I mounted the air horn and acquired a relay switch for wiring in accordance with the great info in this thread. The day before I was going to hook up the air horn, a Wing buddy said why do it that way. His claim was that my existing horns utilize a relay that would be all I need for the new air horn to work properly as long as I hooked up to the existing horn wires. As you can see from the pictures, I mounted the Stebel horn right behind the original horn which I left in place, so it was a 10 second job to switch the wiring from the terminals on the original horn to those on the air horn. To my pleasant surprise, it works great.

 

Is there any reason why I should not be happy with this wiring?

I would still use the relay with separate power source, and just use the wire from the existing horn to trip the relay. By running the whole thing off the horn wire you are increasing the load carried by the switch. The greater the load on the switch the more arching you get across the contacts in the switch. Over time this will shorten the life of the switch.

[dalv]

Guys,

 

I know this subject has been beat to death but I have the relay, lights, illuminated toggle switch, accessory fuse panel, all in place. Before I put power to it, just want to make sure I'm not gonna fry somethin'.

 

What I don't understand is the schematic below - it shows the wires going past #85, 86. I did find some descriptions saying to hook up to these terminals but wanted to ask for clarification on the drawing.

How come it doesn't show a black dot at these terminals like the others (30,87)?

 

So...if you would be so kind as to explain it one more time I would be appreciative.

 

As Buddyrich wrote earlier: Note he has them reversed from the drawing but I assume it doesn't matter? He has them connected to the respective terminals I am confused about. Remember I have 3 poles on the illuminated switch.

Thanks Dal

"

---

That's about it. You'll want the relay to carry the load. Switches aren't made to carry hi amps. The basic 4 pin relay is all you need. Take a fused 14 gauge wire and run it to the relay from the battery. Connect it to pin 30. Then take a wire from pin 87 to the lights. Next

get a wire and ground it. plug it into pin 86. Now tak a wire and run it from pin 85 to your switch. Then on the other side of the switch run that to a hot wire, I use the front running lamps. This wire does not need to be 14 gauge, it can be 18. The wiring diagram is on the relay. the pins will have numbers or be arranged according to the diagram

 

 

 

Gary

 

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af193/gdingy101/DrivingLightAdditiona.jpg

[dingy]

  dalv said:

 

What I don't understand is the schematic below - it shows the wires going past #85, 86. I did find some descriptions saying to hook up to these terminals but wanted to ask for clarification on the drawing.

How come it doesn't show a black dot at these terminals like the others (30,87)?

 

So...if you would be so kind as to explain it one more time I would be appreciative.

 

 

 

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af193/gdingy101/DrivingLightAdditiona.jpg

 

 

The black dot that is shown on terminals 30 & 87 represents the internal contacts of the relay. There is nothing you will see on the outside of the relay that corresponds to these dots. I have used a Computer Aided Drafting package (CAD) to draw these schematics. There are several different ways of depicting a relay, but they all mean basically the same thing. This is just the one I am use to using.

 

There will actually be a male spade terminal on the base of the relay, with the number of the terminal molded in the case.

 

The black dot that is shown to the left of terminal #30 indicates a point where two wires are connected. This connection could be at the terminal going into the light, at the base of the relay or midway between. It is just a schematic way of showing a connection between two or more wires.

 

The two black dots that are shown on the fuse just indicate some form of connection between the fuse and the wire going to it. This type of connection would depend on the style of fuse (glass tube or ATC).

 

Technically, there is a connection where ever there is a ground connection, shown by the black arrow with three lines . In the case of the negative side of the driving lights, there would be two connections on the ground side, one at the light and one where this wire ties to the ground (frame, negative battery terminal or a ground loop in the wiring harness).

 

Gary

[dalv]

Ah...got it. I think I'm good to go. Thanks for the explanation.

Dal

[timgray]

  Golf&Venture said:

Where does one attach the power wire to the accessory side of the electricial when adding a set of additional lights, so the key controls when the additional lights get power?

 

 

be careful what you add. I also recommend adding a relay as increasing the current flow through the keyswitch is not a good idea. I had a friend fry his keyswitch by adding 2 sets of running lights. add a relay to the switch and the lights to the relay.

[Dano]

Youse guys have saved me a lot of typing by doing all the 'splaining for me! Great job. You could also have Don copy this to the tech section for electrical hook-up schematics.

 

Merry Christmas,

 

Dan

[BradT]

  dingy said:

You are running the current for the horn through the switch in the handle bar.

 

The purpose of the relay is to not run the full current through the switch.

 

I hate electrical but you should also be worried that the switch can handle the current if you do NOT use the relay. Two 50 watt lights will draw almost 8.5 amps and most of these switches I do not believe can handle that amount of current. If not the switch will melt.

 

Is the 16 gauge wire large enough to handle the load of two 50 watt lights ? Thought it should be heavier than that.

 

Brad

[camos]

  dalv said:

What I don't understand is the schematic below - it shows the wires going past #85, 86.

It's good that you got it even though your question was never answered. Terminals 86 and 87 are two ends of the circuit through the electromagnetic coil that operates the switch represented by 30 and 87. One end connects to the switched power from the ignition and the other end connects to ground. It doesn't matter whether 86 is powered or 87 is as long as one is powered and one is grounded.

 

Don't bother getting cheap relays because they usually don't last very long and there isn't much difference in cost between good ones and cheap ones.

[dalv]

Clive,

I appreciate the clarification - now I just have to find the switched power source..thinking like Gary said the running lites. I know which are the high beam and low beam not sure on the directional/running. Help?

 

Gary,

My apologies for thinking Buddy was the author of your post. I read so many different posts on this subject (hence the beat to death reference) I mixed it up. Like noted above I just need to get the switched power source and I'm good to go (I think)

 

So...with that hurdle hopefully behind me, and I know this has be answered a bunch of times, it might be helpful to me and others if I could get direction on adding a relay to the headlight. I have a 2nd relay, one of the 5 pin type with (2) #87 terminals - hoping I need only to use one of the 87 terminals as there is discussion on whether this is the same as 87A. I'm using a 4 pin for the driving lights - unless better suggestions.

 

Figure while I have the cowl off I will add both relays, put the dielectric on the connections, add aux from cassette to handlebar for MP3, Silverstar Ultra bulb replacement...anything else I should do?

 

FWIW - I installed the 6 fuse block at the battery, ran (3) wires to the cowl - red, black, green. Plan on using red for running lites power. Should I use the black to ground the lites to the battery or is grounding it under the cowl better? It might not matter just asking what you would do.

 

The green I thought I would cap and label for future power - suggestions?

 

Wow, just read this post - a lot of questions. Here's a summary:

 

1. Identify switched power source

2. Headlight relay wiring schematic

3. 4/5 pin relay preferred application

4. Suggestions on work items under the cowl

5. Ground to battery or frame under cowl.

6. Future power wire use

 

Thanks,

Dal

[dingy]

  BradT said:

I hate electrical but you should also be worried that the switch can handle the current if you do NOT use the relay. Two 50 watt lights will draw almost 8.5 amps and most of these switches I do not believe can handle that amount of current. If not the switch will melt.

 

Is the 16 gauge wire large enough to handle the load of two 50 watt lights ? Thought it should be heavier than that.

 

Brad

 

16 gauge stranded wire is very adequate for a less than 15 foot run at 10 amps. It could safely be used for up to 15 amps. This includes the positive and negative conductors, when calculating the run length.

 

Gary

[dingy]

  dalv said:

Clive,

I appreciate the clarification - now I just have to find the switched power source..thinking like Gary said the running lites. I know which are the high beam and low beam not sure on the directional/running. Help?

 

Gary,

My apologies for thinking Buddy was the author of your post. I read so many different posts on this subject (hence the beat to death reference) I mixed it up. Like noted above #1 I just need to get the switched power source and I'm good to go (I think)

 

#2 So...with that hurdle hopefully behind me, and I know this has be answered a bunch of times, it might be helpful to me and others if I could get direction on adding a relay to the headlight. I have a 2nd relay, one of the 5 pin type with (2) #87 terminals - hoping I need only to use one of the 87 terminals as there is discussion on whether this is the same as 87A. I'm using a 4 pin for the driving lights - unless better suggestions.

 

Figure while I have the cowl off I will add both relays, put the dielectric on the connections, add aux from cassette to handlebar for MP3, Silverstar Ultra bulb replacement...anything else I should do?

 

FWIW - I installed the 6 fuse block at the battery, ran (3) wires to the cowl - red, black, green. Plan on using red for running lites power. #3 Should I use the black to ground the lites to the battery or is grounding it under the cowl better? It might not matter just asking what you would do.

 

#4 The green I thought I would cap and label for future power - suggestions?

 

Wow, just read this post - a lot of questions. Here's a summary:

 

1. Identify switched power source

2. Headlight relay wiring schematic

3. 4/5 pin relay preferred application

4. Suggestions on work items under the cowl

5. Ground to battery or frame under cowl.

6. Future power wire use

 

Thanks,

Dal

 

Dal,

 

#1 From your profile, I am assuming you are not doing this to a Venture, since you list a 1978 XS750SE. I can not suggest a place to get 12V positive switched source on this bike as I am unfamiliar with it.

 

#2 I have attached a BASIC wiring schematic to use a relay to switch the high low beam. You will need a relay with a #87A contact to do this with only one relay. If you can't find one, let me know and I can modify this circuit, but you will need two relays then. The 87 & 87A contacts are quite different in their functioning. The 87A contact and 30 contact are connected when there is no energy to the relay coil. The 87 contact and 30 contact are connected when there is energy to the relay coil. The 87 and 87A contacts are never connected under normal circumstances.

 

#3 If you have a choice between a sub-frame ground source and the negative battery terminal, choose the battery terminal. I am not fond of sub-frame grounds, especially in 1st gen Ventures, due to the sub-frame is not bonded (electrically connected) to the main frame. It is connected through bolted connections, which could have painted mating surfaces, and be a poor ground path.

 

#4 Generally, when wiring circuits, if you have a choice of wire color, it would be helpful if you restrict the use of black to ground circuits. At least, it would be helpful to a future owner if you would tag the function of added circuits in some manner, at both ends of the circuit.

 

Gary

 

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af193/gdingy101/BasicHigh-LowBeamcircuit.jpg

[dalv]

Thanks Gary,

 

Oops! I need to update my profile. I still do have my original 750 but it has taken a semi-retirement since I acquired a '08 RSV. It's funny that I am posting all these crazy questions on the 1st Gen as I own a 2nd but it is due to the topic being on this page.

 

I will look for the 87a relay and use your suggestions.

 

Regards

[camos]

  dingy said:

#1 From your profile, I am assuming you are not doing this to a Venture, since you list a 1978 XS750SE. I can not suggest a place to get 12V positive switched source on this bike as I am unfamiliar with it.

With any street bike a convenient switched power source is the front running lights which almost always can be accessed relatively easily.

 

The down side to using the basic high beam relay method is the headlight won't go off while starting. I'm not sure how much of a problem that is though. For what it is worth, there have been occasions that I have forgotten to turn off the two 55w fog lights on my Virago prior to starting with no apparent ill affects. I don't normally run the fog lights during the day due to the Virago's weak charging system which is probably more pathetic than the one on the Venture.