clutch fluid

[starrider60]

fluid in my clutch is dark. DO I need to change it?

[jemorrisonjr]

Yes...........Should be clear... takes just a little while to do.....

[V7Goose]

fluid in my clutch is dark. DO I need to change it?

Absolutely.

Goose

[BigBoyinMS]

Yep, it's brake fluid so it gets dark as it absorbs water. It needs to be changed every so often just like the front and rear brakes.

I just did mine a week or so ago and I have to say... I love Speedbleeders!

[Seaking]

Something I have to learn to do, bleed the clutch.. and brakes.. never actually done that on a bike..

 

Fighter jets, helos, Intercontinental Winterbagoes.. but not a bike..

[Yammer Dan]

Speedbleeders!!:clap2:

[RedRider]

Yup, Speedbleeders are the best. Bleed both front brake calipers, rear brake, and clutch in about 1/2 hour yesterday. Wasn't even enough time to finish my beer.

 

RR

[Seaking]

any good links to how to do all this properly, etc?

 

Photos, lead me by the hand instruction?

[V7Goose]

any good links to how to do all this properly, etc?

 

Photos, lead me by the hand instruction?

Well, I do not use speed bleeders, nor do I have any interest in them. But I can give you extremely easy instructions for this with a simple hand vacuum pump.

 

The tool I use is here: http://www.harborfreight.com/brake-bleeder-and-vacuum-pump-kit-92474.html

 

Step one: Use the pump to suck out all the fluid from the master cylinder. You do this so that you do not have to suck all the nasty old fluid out through the bleeder valve.

 

Step two: Fill the master with fresh fluid.

 

Step three: connect the pump to the bleeder valve, open the valve, and start pumping. This will suck fresh fluid from the master and old nasty stuff out of the line. You will have to hold the tube on the bleeder to make sure it does not accidentally pop off while pumping.

 

Step three-point-five: watch the master cylinder fluid level while pumping from the bleeder. STOP pumping before the fluid gets to the bottom to prevent any air from entering the line. If you make a mistake here, you will need to keep bleeding until the air bubbles get sucked out through the bleeder.

 

Step three-point-six: Refill the master cylinder each time it gets low, making sure you never suck it dry!

 

Step four: Watch the color of the fluid being sucked into the canister. When it changes color (gets clear), you are done. Close the bleeder and top off the master.

 

Now go ride.

Goose

[Bobby G]

My fluid was dark and actually boiled when we rode to Ft. Lauderdale in early Sept. Lost all clutch control for about an hour until it cooled off. Immediately bled the line with new stuff ala the above directions, and it fixed the problem. Use DOT 5.1 if you can get some. The X.0 is OK too, but 5.1 is just a step above and provides far more heat tolerance.

 

SAFETY EDIT: I have edited this post to catch a major safety point. The poster indicated that DOT 5.0 fluid was acceptable in these bikes - it is ABSOLUTELY NOT. The specification is for DOT4. DOT 5.0 is NOT compatible. Dot 5.1 is compatible, but NOT 5.0.

Goose

Edited October 20, 2010 by V7Goose

[V7Goose]

My fluid was dark and actually boiled when we rode to Ft. Lauderdale in early Sept. Lost all clutch control for about an hour until it cooled off. Immediately bled the line with new stuff ala the above directions, and it fixed the problem. Use DOT 5.1 if you can get some. The 5.0 is OK too, but 5.1 is just a step above and provides far more heat tolerance.

Never Never NEVER mix DOT 5.0 fluid with DOT 3 or DOT4. They are totally incompatible!!!!

 

The RSV specifies DOT 4. DOT3 and DOT4 fluids are compatible, but DOT4 has a higher boiling point. In my opinion, either DOT3 or DOT4 is fine for the clutch, since it will never develop enough heat to make any difference. But stick to DOT4 on the brakes.

Goose

[Rick Butler]

Well Jerry,

 

I guess you see that the overwhelming answer to your question is "Yes", when the brake fluid starts getting dark in your clutch reservoir. The reason it gets darker faster than the fluid in your brake reservoirs is because of the extreme heat it has to endure with the line running close to and finally attaching directly to an engine part. And because this process of the fluid getting extremely hot and then cooling down, it gathers condensation of which your dot 3 and dot 4 absorbs and retains as part of the fluid. This is why it starts to get dark and needs to be changed more often than the brake fluid. And dot 5 brake fuid is not hydroscopic and will not absorb this condensation where is collects in the lower park of the brake system and will start rusting caliper pistons, etc. This why it is only used in racing conditions where the fluid is changed out every race, and should not be used in conventional brake and hydralic clutch systems.

 

Now Valvoline and AMSOIL (and maybe a few others) make a synthetic dot 4 fluid that has higher boiling points than regular dot 4, that I have been using for years.

 

Now Kent, I love my MityVac as much as anyone, but speed bleeders really have a leg up on the process of bleeding brakes because you only have to use the master cylinder to move the fluid out of the system. And you don't have to worry about air getting into the line because of a check ball in the bleeder to keep the fluid from only going one way. But like the process you describe in watching the color of the fluid coming out of the system, you need to make sure to refill the reservoir before the master cylinder starts sucking air.

 

Now I like my MityVac to completely remove all fluid in the lines when I want to remove a caliper. And I do this every time I change pads where I put the caliper on the bench to remove all of the pistons to be cleaned throughly rather than just drop in a new set of pads. In fact I built a power bleeder from a 1 gal pump up sprayer to refill the line from the master cylinder reservoir and then finish it off the old fashioned way.

 

So Jerry in conclusion......change the fluid....now,

 

Rick

[KiteSquid]

fluid in my clutch is dark. DO I need to change it?

 

YES!!!!!!

 

 

IMHO, this should be an annual maintenance.....

 

A motor vehicle needs to be able to accelerate and maintain speed, but it HAS to be able to DECELERATE and STOP!!!!!!!!!

[RandyR]

My 2000 RSV MM had a lot of sediment in the bottom of both the brake and clutch reservoirs that needed to be wiped out when the reservoir was very low. A clean shop towel works for this. If yours hasn't been done for a while, be prepared for this extra step. Then fill it with fresh fluid and bleed it thru.

 

And wipe clean the underside of the rubber diaphram that goes between the reservoir and cover.

[Yammer Dan]

Well Jerry,

 

I guess you see that the overwhelming answer to your question is "Yes", when the brake fluid starts getting dark in your clutch reservoir. The reason it gets darker faster than the fluid in your brake reservoirs is because of the extreme heat it has to endure with the line running close to and finally attaching directly to an engine part. And because this process of the fluid getting extremely hot and then cooling down, it gathers condensation of which your dot 3 and dot 4 absorbs and retains as part of the fluid. This is why it starts to get dark and needs to be changed more often than the brake fluid. And dot 5 brake fuid is not hydroscopic and will not absorb this condensation where is collects in the lower park of the brake system and will start rusting caliper pistons, etc. This why it is only used in racing conditions where the fluid is changed out every race, and should not be used in conventional brake and hydralic clutch systems.

 

Now Valvoline and AMSOIL (and maybe a few others) make a synthetic dot 4 fluid that has higher boiling points than regular dot 4, that I have been using for years.

 

Now Kent, I love my MityVac as much as anyone, but speed bleeders really have a leg up on the process of bleeding brakes because you only have to use the master cylinder to move the fluid out of the system. And you don't have to worry about air getting into the line because of a check ball in the bleeder to keep the fluid from only going one way. But like the process you describe in watching the color of the fluid coming out of the system, you need to make sure to refill the reservoir before the master cylinder starts sucking air.

 

Now I like my MityVac to completely remove all fluid in the lines when I want to remove a caliper. And I do this every time I change pads where I put the caliper on the bench to remove all of the pistons to be cleaned throughly rather than just drop in a new set of pads. In fact I built a power bleeder from a 1 gal pump up sprayer to refill the line from the master cylinder reservoir and then finish it off the old fashioned way.

 

So Jerry in conclusion......change the fluid....now,

 

Rick

 

:sign yeah that:

Speedbleeders just make it so much easier. I don't care much what others think of them if you use them you will find they are going to save a lot of time and trouble.

[Bobby G]

Never Never NEVER mix DOT 5.0 fluid with DOT 3 or DOT4. They are totally incompatible!!!!

 

The RSV specifies DOT 4. DOT3 and DOT4 fluids are compatible, but DOT4 has a higher boiling point. In my opinion, either DOT3 or DOT4 is fine for the clutch, since it will never develop enough heat to make any difference. But stick to DOT4 on the brakes.

Goose

 

Goose:

 

I was not suggesting mixing dot 5.1 with dot 3 or 4 fluid for the clutch. I was only suggesting that dot 5.1 has a higher heat tolerance and is a better choice if available. Here are some numbers to consider:

Boiling point ranges:

 

Dry boiling point/Wet boiling point

 

~ DOT 3: 205 °C (401 °F)/140 °C (284 °F)

~ DOT 4: 230 °C (446 °F)/155 °C (311 °F)

~ DOT 5: 260 °C (500 °F)/180 °C (356 °F)

~ DOT 5.1: 270 °C (518 °F) 190 °C (374 °F)

 

DOT 5.1, like DOT 3 and DOT 4, is a polyethylene glycol-based fluid (contrasted with DOT 5 which is silicone-based). Polyethylene glycol fluids are hygroscopic and will absorb water from the atmosphere, which is necessary to prevent sheer and undiluted water in the braking system, which is very corrosive.

 

So when available, DOT 5.1 is a better choice as a replacement hydrolic fluid for the RSV clutch. It's fully compatible with DOT 3 and 4, and has a higher dry and wet boiling point. Not sure if this holds true for the brakes, so I'll take your word for it that DOT 4 is the way to go. However, in the United States, all brake fluids must meet Standard No. 116; Motor vehicle brake fluids. Under this standard there are three Department of Transportation (DOT) minimal specifications for brake fluid. They are DOT 3, DOT 4 and DOT 5.1.

 

Hope this clarifies my earlier statement.

Edited October 20, 2010 by Bobby G

[V7Goose]

Bobby G, the part of your post to which I objected was the quote "The 5.0 is OK too". This is absolutely incorrect when discussing the Royal Stars.

 

I personally do not believe DOT 5.1 adds any material value in either the clutch or the brake systems on these bikes, but I did not specifically advise against its use.

Goose

[Bobby G]

Sorry Goose. That was a typo on my original post that I missed, and missed again when I read your reply. I really did mean 4.0, not 5.0. Thanks for the correction for everyone's benefit.

[Guest]

I did my last fluid changeout with Motul DOT 5.1. Since im down here in the heat I was looking for something with a higher heat tolerance. DOT 5.1 may be only a little better then DOT4 but if there is something better out there then my RSV is worth it.

 

Now, time to head out for some steak.........no McDonalds for this spendthrift!!!!

[Yammer Dan]

I did my last fluid changeout with Motul DOT 5.1. Since im down here in the heat I was looking for something with a higher heat tolerance. DOT 5.1 may be only a little better then DOT4 but if there is something better out there then my RSV is worth it.

 

Now, time to head out for some steak.........no McDonalds for this spendthrift!!!!

 

Micky D's Double Quarter. Tell them to dress it like a Mac... Did I mention I like Burgers???

[RandyR]

Concerning 5.1 for clutch fluid. One of our members had repeated clutch problems taking the MC safety foundation course on a RSV, and I couldn't help but wonder if constant slipping of the clutch thru the course caused it to heat up enough to boil the fluid and cause his subsequant clutch problems.

[BigBoyinMS]

Here is some reading for those that really want the facts. Understanding Brake Fluid

(FYI, after researching brake fluid myself some time ago... I'll stick with DOT 4. And DOT 3,4 and 5.1 WILL mix; but it's best not to mix them. Dot 5 is the odd man out.)

[V7Goose]

Concerning 5.1 for clutch fluid. One of our members had repeated clutch problems taking the MC safety foundation course on a RSV, and I couldn't help but wonder if constant slipping of the clutch thru the course caused it to heat up enough to boil the fluid and cause his subsequant clutch problems.

This seems highly unlikely to me. Brakes generate a huge amount of heat on the pads, and each pad has a very large contact point on multiple pistons to transfer that heat into the fluid - that is why they have significant problem with boiling fluid in some situations (heavy and repeated brake use).

 

The clutch is totally different. First, all plates are bathed in the engine oil, so no matter what, I doubt they can much exceed the oil temperature which will always be below the boiling point of brake fluid. But even more importantly, there is almost no direct contact path from the plates back to the fluid like there is with brake pads. Since the clutch slave cylinder is mounted on the engine case, the fluid is going to be at the temperature of the engine oil. A little quick research indicated that typical oil temperature on a water cooled engine will probably be around 250 °F, which is below the boiling point of even DOT3 fluid. Any oil temperature that is high enough to boil the brake fluid will trigger an overheated and damaged engine long before that happens!

 

But your idea is an interesting one, nonetheless. I have no idea just how much 3% moisture content actually is in the fluid, nor do I have any idea how long it would have to be neglected before that much moisture would be absorbed. But maybe if the moisture content was really super high (whatever that might be), then the normal engine temperature could affect it? But then again, boiling fluid usually has the opposite affect - it removes the ability to apply the brakes (or disengage the clutch) instead of locking them up. While the added pressure in the system can cause the piston in the slave to push out, it usually just pushes fluid backwards into the master instead, and the steam and air makes the system spongy. So I guess I doubt it even more than I did to start with. But all of this is just theory - I have never tested it or seen it discussed.

 

Contrary to the opinions expressed in another post here, I believe the reason that the clutch fluid always turns brown much more quickly than the front brake fluid is simply because the lever is worked MUCH MUCH MUCH more often. The master cylinders are not 100% sealed, as air must be allowed in above the diaphragm, and I suspect this slight but relatively constant motion is what is introducing the moisture at a faster rate.

Goose

Edited October 20, 2010 by V7Goose

[Seaking]

Concerning 5.1 for clutch fluid. One of our members had repeated clutch problems taking the MC safety foundation course on a RSV, and I couldn't help but wonder if constant slipping of the clutch thru the course caused it to heat up enough to boil the fluid and cause his subsequant clutch problems.

 

Well I took the course TWICE and burnt out my clutch TWICE.. I suspect something amiss with the system as the fluid darkens within a few months of heavy use.. My ride buddy puts on as many miles as I do yet his clutch reservoir fluid is cleaner looking than mine..

 

So I have to wonder where or what is causing my fluid to darken (signs of burning or contamination?)

[Condor]

So I have to wonder where or what is causing my fluid to darken (signs of burning or contamination?)

 

Ya gotta stop adding water to the fluid.... Dark DOT indicates moisture.