If you are gonna crash.........

[dingy]

If I know I can't avoid an impact, the first thing I am going to do is take a quick look to my rear and if nobody is close behind me, I'm laying it down. It aint speed that hurts it's the sudden stop.

 

 

My last option would be laying the bike down. You will not stop any faster sliding on the ground. Once you lay it down, you are out of options.

 

I hit a car head on in 78 on a 750 Honda due to my being unfamiliar with a road deep in the hills of Kentucky. I came up over a hill when riding with a large passenger (brother in law) which I was not use to having the extra weight. Right over the hill was a very sharp curve to the right. I made it into the curve, went left of center, and when I was bringing it back to the right lane, the rear wheel slid around, and the bike went down. I slid into an oncoming car And hit him. It was driven by an uncle that was going very slow, and had actually stopped before I hit him. I didn't have time to push away from the bike. I ended up getting two compression fractures in my lower back. One vertebra is down 35% and another is down 15%. We were only doing around 35 going over hill at the time. Curve was unmarked by signs.

 

Another time, I laid another 750 Hoda down at 70mph when I hit gravel in a curve. That one I pushed away from and slid away from it cleanly. I still have the belt buckle I was wearing, carry it in my bike trunk as a remindre.. It is ground down about a quarter of an inch on one side from the slide.

 

Gary

[Jercoupe]

After a t-bone accident with a car that pull out on me and my wife I have ran the scenario over and over in my head just to come to the conclusion that you need to recognize it before it happens. After the accident was in motion there was seconds to think and react by slamming on the brakes ( although it was happening in slow motion). Once this accident was inevitable we were just along for the ride and I think it was just a matter of luck how bad we were going to be hurt. I dont think the gold wing bag would have helped since the forward motion of the car took my front wheel to the left and we were launched off the right of the bike. If there was a bit more time the bike may have laid down because the rear was locked (and probably the front too) but it would have not been a conscious decision on my part to do that. I hope this never happens again but I can sure recognize this scenario that caused the accident and when I see it again I slow down to a snails pace. Now some yahoo will probably rear end us !

[MasterGuns]

My last option would be laying the bike down. You will not stop any faster sliding on the ground. Once you lay it down, you are out of options.

 

I hit a car head on in 78 on a 750 Honda due to my being unfamiliar with a road deep in the hills of Kentucky. I came up over a hill when riding with a large passenger (brother in law) which I was not use to having the extra weight. Right over the hill was a very sharp curve to the right. I made it into the curve, went left of center, and when I was bringing it back to the right lane, the rear wheel slid around, and the bike went down. I slid into an oncoming car And hit him. It was driven by an uncle that was going very slow, and had actually stopped before I hit him. I didn't have time to push away from the bike. I ended up getting two compression fractures in my lower back. One vertebra is down 35% and another is down 15%. We were only doing around 35 going over hill at the time. Curve was unmarked by signs.

 

Another time, I laid another 750 Hoda down at 70mph when I hit gravel in a curve. That one I pushed away from and slid away from it cleanly. I still have the belt buckle I was wearing, carry it in my bike trunk as a remindre.. It is ground down about a quarter of an inch on one side from the slide.

 

Gary

 

Well that is exactly what I did on Apr 21, 1969 and I am still here. The bike was a total loss after it impacted the car that pulled out in front of me. I left the scene on foot and with some road rash. Had I remained aboard, no telling what injuries I would had sustained. You cannot say what one should do in every case. I was just lucky

[CrazyHorse]

Slow down as quick as possible while downshifting and look for escape hole to steer through look where you want to go not at the object you will tend to go where you look try to maintain control as long as you can. When you downshift and your slowed down enough you can power around an object and not stall it hopefully. Laying it down gives you no control and your going to continue in the direction you were going which may not be where you want to go. Paying attention is the best advice hopefully you can see a potential situation before it happens.

[CrazyHorse]

My last option would be laying the bike down. You will not stop any faster sliding on the ground. Once you lay it down, you are out of options.

 

I hit a car head on in 78 on a 750 Honda due to my being unfamiliar with a road deep in the hills of Kentucky. I came up over a hill when riding with a large passenger (brother in law) which I was not use to having the extra weight. Right over the hill was a very sharp curve to the right. I made it into the curve, went left of center, and when I was bringing it back to the right lane, the rear wheel slid around, and the bike went down. I slid into an oncoming car And hit him. It was driven by an uncle that was going very slow, and had actually stopped before I hit him. I didn't have time to push away from the bike. I ended up getting two compression fractures in my lower back. One vertebra is down 35% and another is down 15%. We were only doing around 35 going over hill at the time. Curve was unmarked by signs.

 

Another time, I laid another 750 Hoda down at 70mph when I hit gravel in a curve. That one I pushed away from and slid away from it cleanly. I still have the belt buckle I was wearing, carry it in my bike trunk as a remindre.. It is ground down about a quarter of an inch on one side from the slide.

 

Gary

 

Having a passenger heavier then you are is unstable to begin with all the weight to the rear. In an emergency situation it only worsens the stability.

[saddlebum]

Since my co worker just got creamed by a cage that ran a sop sign, I have been thinking about the scenario a lot.

Enough that even though the fall colors were just stating to get near peak and the weather was perfect for a ride, I did not go out.

If a bad situation presents itself you have a better chance if you have at least thought about it some before it happens.

 

So the question is;

If you are going down the road and and you see a car pulling out in front of you, and there is just no way to avoid getting hit, no room behind the car to swerve to the right and oncoming traffic or something else blocking a swerve to the left, what is the best option?

 

Hit the brakes hard which will slow you down and cause you to hit the side of the offending car and get launched into the handle bars, or get on the gas hard to try to get your body past the point of impact even though the car will still hit the back end of the bike and likely knock you down at a higher rate of speed?

Or some other option.

I know the best option is to not put yourself in that situation but sometimes $hit happens.

 

I do realize that every encounter is different, and the snap decision will have to be made at that moment in time.

Keep hitting the rewind button, so you never reach that point .

[Formerfuzz]

I know this isn't for everyone but it may help reduce injuries to the back and torso. I saw the Armored Air Jacket or Vest on a local news clip in Dallas. It inflates by CO2 if you are thrown from the bike. Acts like a personal airbag. After my wife saw it, she stated that she would buy the vest for me. It is bound to help some. Check it out and form your on opinions

 

www.armoredairjackets.com

 

http://cbs11tv.com/video/?id=57593@ktvt.dayport.com

[Dave3]

I had proof that not laying it down works. I had a cager turn left in front of me from a side street and stopped when he saw me. It was a bright sunny day and he didn't look my way before turning. I hit the brakes hard enough to fishtail the rear, but when I thought about laying it down or controlling what happened to me, I decided to nail the throttle and shot around the rear of the car. It scarred the crap out of me, but I stayed upright and didn't hit the car.

I had not so close call 2 weeks ago. It was night and my bike has passing lights and blue LED's all around. I was in the right lane coming up to a green traffic light. I saw the cager pulling up to the intersection on my right. (it's a T with a yield lane for right turns) I was going straight through the light, when this guy who was stopped decided to turn right in the yield lane, In Front of me! I knew the left lane was clear so I moved over and slowed down a bit. I pulled next to the drivers window and hit my WOLO!!! His window was down and I think he realized he F'd up..

Edited October 6, 2010 by Dave3
add

[CaptainJoe]

formerfuzz,

The vest or jacket would still be cheaper than a Goldwing.

Only problem I can see is they would probably be hot to wear in the summer...

I may just get 2. one for the wife and I, Thanks ...

[Formerfuzz]

I am sure it will add to the heat factor in the summer, but when I was with the PD I wore a vest and decided I would rather sweat than bleed.

[YamaDuck]

Since my co worker just got creamed by a cage that ran a sop sign, I have been thinking about the scenario a lot.

Enough that even though the fall colors were just stating to get near peak and the weather was perfect for a ride, I did not go out.

If a bad situation presents itself you have a better chance if you have at least thought about it some before it happens.

 

So the question is;

If you are going down the road and and you see a car pulling out in front of you, and there is just no way to avoid getting hit, no room behind the car to swerve to the right and oncoming traffic or something else blocking a swerve to the left, what is the best option?

 

Hit the brakes hard which will slow you down and cause you to hit the side of the offending car and get launched into the handle bars, or get on the gas hard to try to get your body past the point of impact even though the car will still hit the back end of the bike and likely knock you down at a higher rate of speed?

Or some other option.

I know the best option is to not put yourself in that situation but sometimes $hit happens.

 

I do realize that every encounter is different, and the snap decision will have to be made at that moment in time.

You know this exact thing happened to me 3 years ago. The car pulled out of a driveway about 20 feet in front of me. I had no room to maneuver so I locked everything up in a panic stop situation. A split second went by and it was clear to me that I was not going to stop in time. I laid the bike over only to hit the side of the truck. The impact catapulted me back upright at which time I hit the handle bars, mirrors, windshield and anything else between me and the front of the bike. After I hit all that I immediately left the bike as it careened off to the left and I fell flat on my back. So in my accident I think that laying the bike over actually increased the impact as I was catapulted back up into the truck.

[Jercoupe]

I know this isn't for everyone but it may help reduce injuries to the back and torso. I saw the Armored Air Jacket or Vest on a local news clip in Dallas. It inflates by CO2 if you are thrown from the bike. Acts like a personal airbag. After my wife saw it, she stated that she would buy the vest for me. It is bound to help some. Check it out and form your on opinions

Its interesting but as many times as I have got off my bike with my heated vest cord still attatched I think I would be puffing up a lot in the inflatable vest. I can see it helping a lot in a bar fight though. Just keep your helmet on and pull the cord!

[Formerfuzz]

From what I have read, it requires 35lbs of pull to activate, to prevent forgetting to detach.

Probably scare the crap out you if it does.

[CaptainJoe]

Would be nice if we could finagle a Group buy out of this wouldn't it FREEBIRD?

Edited October 6, 2010 by CaptainJoe

[Freebird]

We'll see. I sent them an email.

[rentalguy1]

purposely high side it. Road rash hurts much less than broken bones. It's also usually cheaper to repair fairings than replace the front end. I'd lay my bike down in a heartbeat to keep from t-boning/getting t-boned by a cage.

[Freebird]

Would be nice if we could finagle a Group buy out of this wouldn't it FREEBIRD?

 

OK. I have been in contact with the manufacturer. They are willing to offer us a short term discount.

 

Here is the note from Stan Conley of Armored Air Jackets:

We will offer your members a 15% discount to see if there is any interest. Their code is" Venture" and will be valid for 15 days.

The URL is:

http://www.armoredairjackets.com/index.php

[Capt-D]

I have read all of the previous threads on this post and being a fairly new rider I really look at what you folks are saying and try working the scenarios out in my head because I know I will probably need it in the future, but one thing that I have noticed is that in all the accidents and near accidents that you have discussed one thing is present: you were not seen by the cager, so my question is this: in your years of riding have you found any one thing that makes you more visible to the other guy?

[Formerfuzz]

For me, I immediately noticed cars that are entering the same road from a turn, are taking a second look from a rolling stop, after I installed the passing lamps. There is a real benefit to those 3 lights that gets their attention. Of course I still anticipate they will pull out.

[Capt-D]

yeah, .I have been watching E-bay for a pair, just so darned expensive, but it is definitely my next purchase for the bike

[BigBoi]

Since my co worker just got creamed by a cage that ran a sop sign, I have been thinking about the scenario a lot.

Enough that even though the fall colors were just stating to get near peak and the weather was perfect for a ride, I did not go out.

If a bad situation presents itself you have a better chance if you have at least thought about it some before it happens.

 

So the question is;

If you are going down the road and and you see a car pulling out in front of you, and there is just no way to avoid getting hit, no room behind the car to swerve to the right and oncoming traffic or something else blocking a swerve to the left, what is the best option?

 

Hit the brakes hard which will slow you down and cause you to hit the side of the offending car and get launched into the handle bars, or get on the gas hard to try to get your body past the point of impact even though the car will still hit the back end of the bike and likely knock you down at a higher rate of speed?

Or some other option.

I know the best option is to not put yourself in that situation but sometimes $hit happens.

 

I do realize that every encounter is different, and the snap decision will have to be made at that moment in time.

 

 

Accidents happen but one thing I've learned is to play what if?.. always ask yourself this question as you ride and be prepared for ANYTHING

[jfoster]

Our troop works atleast one fatality a year with the scenario you guys are talking about. I worked one last year, older guy (late 40's) turns left in front of a sport bike. The motorcycliest locks up the brakes, lays it over onto its left side and slides into the rear wheel of the truck. The motorcycliest died on impact.

 

It's like they say with deer running across the road, if the motorcyclies had braked (without locking up) and swerved to the left, I think it would have been possible to miss the truck. Its a hard thing to do to turn into something, human nature is to turn away from it or panic. Note: He was also running 12 psi in the front tire.

 

Me personally, I'm against deliberately trying to lay it down (not a natural response for me). Your 100% gonna crash, I'll take my chances trying to bob-n-weave.

[rentalguy1]

LIke to add to my statement that I learned the bob and weave method in a rider's course years ago, and it has saved be from banging up a bike at slow speeds on a few occasions. I still practice it every time I ride, just so it will be somewhat instinctive if I ever need it. The laydown method comes from personal experience (by sheer accident) and from my nephew who was a AMA licensed superbike racer. Those guys are taught that it is better to slide on the ground in a controlled manner at higher speeds than go over the bars in a out of control manner.

 

He says that if at the first gut feeling that you are no longer in control of the bike, it is time to part ways with it. Lock up the rear, lean to the left, and let go as it starts going down. I did it this way once, by accident, a long time ago. The bike was trashed, but I walked away without a scratch. I also got a death wobble by crossing RR tracks at 115 (young and dumb) once. I decided the best method was to ride it out. Bad move. I still have asphalt embedded in my chin bone, and that was 20 years ago. I hate to admit this one, but I have also hit a car head on at about 50mph. The cager and I were both in the middle of the road in a blind curve, so we were both at fault. Again, the car was trashed, but I walked away without a scratch. I can only attribute this to having enough reaction time to bring the bike upright, and faith in God. I cleared the car and landed in very dense bushes on the other side. I was also lucky in that I knew the cager, and he was driving his wife's LeBaron, instead of his '56 T-Bird.

 

Anyhoo...interesting discussion. Safe riding!

[mountainhorsega]

http://www.msgroup.org/default.aspx in the safety tips section (I hope Don doesn't mind me linking to the other site.)

there is an article about laying it down to avoid a crash somewhere in there.

ad, there is another one about realizing that motorcops aren't necessarily the best example - they have a different set of issues than we do.

I tend to agree with this guy - better to spend all the precious seconds you have with the rubber helping to slow you down. If you're going to hit the object anyway - it would be nice to be going as SLOW as possible. Laying it down doesn't slow it down nearly as well as the tires do. I have a couple of opinions about the whole lay it down and separate yourself from it thing. 1. If you have time to do that - you probably have time for avoidance. 2. If you don't have time - you just gave up any control you had to slow down more. just my thoughts (an apparently this guy's as well). I read and re-read these tips frequently.

This is the one I really like

http://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=226&Set=

Edited October 7, 2010 by mountainhorsega

[phertwo]

Good article. This is why I think ABS braking should be mandatory on motorcycles - at least our heavy ones. Its completely instinctual to press down hard on the rear brake when something scares the hell out of you like a car placing itself right in your path. I wish Yamaha would build in an ABS system with the spare parts from the cassette deck!