RSV won't run without choke

[Guest PlaneCrazy]

I have a kinda weird problem with my '09 RSV. It sat for 2 months and the bat died on the start attempt today when my friend who was storing it went to drive it back to me. Then when he got it running, it stalled out a couple of times and he thought he ran out of gas. He topped up the gas and got it to my house finally but as he came off the highway it started to run rough again. So much so that it would only stay running with full choke and any attempt to add power would cause the bike to die.

 

I drove my buddy home in my car and when I got home 2 hours later, I tried the bike again and it fired right up with choke. However, any attempt to take the choke off and it would die. Also, as the bike warmed up, it started running rough, even with choke on. It almost sounds to me like it's missing on a cylinder or two, but I have little experience with this V4. All my previous bikes were twins.

 

The bike was bought new in May and only has about 3000 miles on it. I was thinking that maybe it picked up some bad gas and the carbs are gummed up? Maybe run some Seafoam through them?

 

I can't drive it right now due to a busted ankle, but if i have to I can get the dealer to pick it up. It's got the warranty after all.

 

Hmmm... i just had a scary thought... is it possible that when my friend boosted the battery, he could have maybe fried the ignition module? Anyone ever heard of this happening with the RSV? I don't recall any specific warnings against it in the owners manual or on the battery compartment lid.

[V7Goose]

Your pilot jets are plugged from sitting. My be easy to clean out with a heavy dose of Seafoam, especially since you cannot ride it for a while. You just need to make sure to get the carbs full of the high Seafoam mixture before you let it sit again.

 

But it may be a bit of a problem, too. A fuel cleaner cannot clean any jet if it is totally blocked - the cleaner has to be able to flow through it to clean. But still worth a try. Good luck,

Goose

[Guest PlaneCrazy]

Your pilot jets are plugged from sitting. My be easy to clean out with a heavy dose of Seafoam, especially since you cannot ride it for a while. You just need to make sure to get the carbs full of the high Seafoam mixture before you let it sit again.

 

But it may be a bit of a problem, too. A fuel cleaner cannot clean any jet if it is totally blocked - the cleaner has to be able to flow through it to clean. But still worth a try. Good luck,

Goose

 

Thanks. I figured it might be something like that. I wasn't sure though as I am surprised it could happen with such a new bike and with gas that was only 2 months old. But, then again, I've heard lots of stories about bad gas lately.

 

How accessible are the carb drains on this thing? The manual doesn't help much and I can't look myself until the morning.

 

This week, I'll try and drain and flush the carbs then let them sit with some Seafoam in them. I still have a month or more before I really need to winterize it for good.

[gunkylump]

Nice looking bike in your pic.....any snow up over there yet in the Capitol?

 

Get a can of seafoam...throw about 75 per cent in the gas tank. Let it sit overnight, with the petcock open. Start the bike up, let it run long enough to warm up real good, then shut it down if you have to run it with the choke on, and let it sit overnight again.

 

See if that works for you before you start draining the carbs, it might be all it needs.

 

gunk:Laugh:

 

p.s. I'm just a lazy, half @ssed backyard mechanic.....I like the path of least resistance. Hope it does the trick for you.

[V7Goose]

Thanks. I figured it might be something like that. I wasn't sure though as I am surprised it could happen with such a new bike and with gas that was only 2 months old. But, then again, I've heard lots of stories about bad gas lately.

 

How accessible are the carb drains on this thing? The manual doesn't help much and I can't look myself until the morning.

 

This week, I'll try and drain and flush the carbs then let them sit with some Seafoam in them. I still have a month or more before I really need to winterize it for good.

Two months is generally not enough to plug jets, but with modern gas it is possible. It is also quite possible that they were partially obstructed before it sat. The problem you describe fits this diagnosis 100%. The last guy I worked with whose bike behaved like that managed to get it running fairly well after running at least 5 full tanks of Seafoam treated gas through it, but even then we could still easily see the pilot jets partially clogged when we pulled the carbs. Took several hours of soaking them in straight carb cleaner and repeated shots of compressed air before I got them totally clean.

 

The drain screws are reachable with a long 5mm allen wrench from between the carbs on each side - each one is kind of hidden behind the intake manifold.

 

Of course you realize that adding anything to the tank does absolutely no good until your run the bike enough to replace the fuel already in the carbs with the new treated fuel. That is one of the benefits of draining the carbs, but even then you still have a lot of gas left in the fuel line and fuel filter. It generally takes five to ten minutes of running to burn all that gas - half that if you drain the carbs, but it will make a real mess of things unless you can reach in there and put a drain hose on the drain nipples! If you do not drain the carbs first, start with the fuel off and run it until it dies. Then I'd mix up a small amount of 50/50 gas/Seafoam and let the fuel pump suck that in by taking the hose off the tank. The bike won't run very good on that strong a mix, so you will know when it has gotten into the carbs. That is when I'd let it sot over night to let the stuff soften the varnish.

Goose

Edited October 3, 2010 by V7Goose

[allen]

My bike is doing the same thing. Three weeks ago I rode it to the shop to have a new tire and brakes installed, no problem. Brought it home and parked it, two weeks later I started it and let it run for about 10 minutes.

Last week the night before we were to leave on our trip I went to start it and and it would only run with the choke out, I have gotten it to where I can push the choke in but only if I am gunning it, as soon as I let off the gas it dies.

I checked and cleaned the fuel lines and checked the fuel pump. I do remember smelling rotten smell when this began.

Where can I buy this seafoam? I called the dealer about cleaning and tuning the carbs, $120.00 EACH, I am hesitant about getting into the carbs, thats not like working on an old holly.

If the seafoam does not work, what would be the next step?

 

Thanks guys,

Allen

[kj5ix]

My bike is doing the same thing. Three weeks ago I rode it to the shop to have a new tire and brakes installed, no problem. Brought it home and parked it, two weeks later I started it and let it run for about 10 minutes.

Last week the night before we were to leave on our trip I went to start it and and it would only run with the choke out, I have gotten it to where I can push the choke in but only if I am gunning it, as soon as I let off the gas it dies.

I checked and cleaned the fuel lines and checked the fuel pump. I do remember smelling rotten smell when this began.

Where can I buy this seafoam? I called the dealer about cleaning and tuning the carbs, $120.00 EACH, I am hesitant about getting into the carbs, thats not like working on an old holly.

If the seafoam does not work, what would be the next step?

 

Thanks guys,

Allen

 

Wally World or almost any Auto Parts Store.

I would run the carbs dry with pitcock closed, then add a good dose of Sea Foam and let set for a couple of hours, then open pit cock and start. That is the quickest way to get it into the carb bowls to start working.

[V7Goose]

Just thought I should add these comments for troubleshooting this problem - not having much fuel in the carburetor float bowls, for any reason, can also cause these exact symptoms. Just something as simple as not turning on the gas - nobody has ever forgotten that, right? More likely than that would be a clogged fuel filter or bad fuel pump.

 

The easiest way to make sure that fuel is flowing all the way to the carbs is to simply remove the fuel line from the carburetor intake above the right rear carb and turn the key on (don't forget the kill switch must be on too). If the fuel pump immediately kicks in and you have a decent fuel flow out of that gas line, then you are back looking at the pilot jets.

 

You generally do need to pull the tank to get that fuel line off, so if you don't want to even go to that much trouble, just remove the left side battery cover and take off the output line from the fuel pump. This test is almost as good, since there is only about 1 foot of open fuel line between the fuel pump and the carb intake and there is almost no possibility that it is kinked.

[Guest PlaneCrazy]

Well, I couldn't find any Seafoam locally, so I bought some Sta-Bil and treated the gas in my tank, then I ran the bike for about 10 mins with the choke on (it took a lot of finesse on the throttle/choke to keep it running)

 

After about 10 mins, it started to run a little better and would stay going with just choke, but would die if I tried to give it throttle or close the choke. I then pulled the fuel line from the Petcock and while the engine was running I sprayed a heavy duty carb cleaner directly in the fuel line. Ran a whole aerosol can of the stuff through it and the bike never stalled. By the time I was done, the bike was running quite a bit better and would idle (roughly) with the choke off.

 

So at that point, I just filled the carbs with the last of the carb cleaner and then shut the engine off. I'll let the treated gas sit in the carbs for a day or two then go do this again.

 

Looks like everything will be ok after a couple more treatments. I am kinda disappointed that the RSV is so sensitive to fuel problems. A new bike, only sat for 2 months... it shouldn't clog up like this, IMO. I have had several Honda's over the years and I swear some of them would run on piss in the tank Even my '92 GSXR didn't give me any problems and it had 4 carbs gravity fed with no pump or inline filter... just a screen in the petcock. Guess I will be treating the gas and draining the carbs anytime I plan on not riding for a month.

[friesman]

I know in the past we didnt have as many issues with carbs, but since the addition of ethanol to our gas, it deteriorates in as little as a couple of weeks according to what Ive been reading. It appears every manufacturer is having these issues now, not just our Yammies.

Stabil doesnt have the cleaners in it that Seafoam has, as far as I know it is just a stabilzer to prevent varnish build up, so mabbe you got things in time. Seafoam is a stabilizer and a varnish/carbon remover and should be availble at specialty automotive stores, a few places here have it, but you do hafta look for it.

 

Its good to see another fellow CMCer on here, I hear our resident troublemaker (and funnyguy) DieselDemon rode with you guys earlier this summer, I hope he didnt break anything..(or anyone)LOL

 

Brian

[Guest PlaneCrazy]

I know in the past we didnt have as many issues with carbs, but since the addition of ethanol to our gas, it deteriorates in as little as a couple of weeks according to what Ive been reading. It appears every manufacturer is having these issues now, not just our Yammies.

Stabil doesnt have the cleaners in it that Seafoam has, as far as I know it is just a stabilzer to prevent varnish build up, so mabbe you got things in time. Seafoam is a stabilizer and a varnish/carbon remover and should be availble at specialty automotive stores, a few places here have it, but you do hafta look for it.

 

Its good to see another fellow CMCer on here, I hear our resident troublemaker (and funnyguy) DieselDemon rode with you guys earlier this summer, I hope he didnt break anything..(or anyone)LOL

 

Brian

 

 

LOL, well the only thing breaking around here was my ankle in July

 

I was just thinking about the August we had here and it's possible the gas went bad a lot faster then normal because we had a record month for heat. I was laid up inside but I remember several days when the Humidex hit the mid 40's That combined with the crap ethanol they put in the gas and you probably have micro-bacterial soup.

 

You should see some of the gunk I drain out of the tanks on our aircraft. I took about 15 gallons of green goo out of one plane's wing. It got so bad we had to get a special company in to treat the tanks with an anti-bacterial agent. And our smaller high wing aircraft have these radioactive "pucks" in the fuel tanks that kills any organisms over the life of the aircraft.

[Yammer Dan]

Be CAREFULL what cleaners you do use. Some of them are too harsh for the Carbs and can damage them. Sea-Foam wont do this or Marvel Mystery Oil, Yamaha's Ring Free and several others. Berry Man's Chem Tech seems to be OK but I wouldn't use a lot of it. Wally World has Sea-Foam and a lot of parts stores. Been hearing good things about Startron in the boat section at WallyWorld.

[Guest PlaneCrazy]

Success!!!

 

I went and ran the bike again after the carb cleaner sat for a couple of hours. It ran, but was still rough and then I noticed that the left front cylinder wasn't firing at all. So I bought another bottle of carb cleaner... this time some generic Motormaster brand concentrated stuff. I then pulled the fuel hose off the petcock again and jammed the plastic tube from a turkey baster in it. Perfect fit!

 

Started the bike up, then , while holding the plastic tube upright, I poured the carb cleaner down it... refilling it as the carbs sucked it dry. Over all, i managed to put 3 full tubes (about 5 ounces or so) of cleaner right into the carbs before the bike stalled and refused to run anymore.

 

I let it sit for 3 hours (didn't want it in there too long as this was concentrated stuff and would soften the rubber seals) and then I went back to the shed and had to figure out how to get this stuff out of the carbs. After climbing around on my hands and knees for 10 mins (not very easy to do with a healing busted ankle and dislocated patella, lol) I saw where the drains were and using the allan key from the tool kit, I drained each carb in pairs (left side ones, then right side ones). What I did was open the pair up and let them run until the flow stopped. Then I turned the ignition on and let fresh (stabilized) gas run through the carbs and drain for about 30 seconds, then shut the drains. Then I repeated that on the other pair of carbs. The stuff that came out in the first rinse was very milky.

 

Also, the mess wasn't as bad as I thought it might be for just letting the carbs drain onto the engine. When the bike is sitting on it's side stand, 99% of the gas ended up running in a thin line down the middle and then out the left side and running over the chrome side cover onto the left pipe. I cleaned it up and then hit the starter and the bike fired right up and ran full bore! WooHoo! It's back to running like a top both with choke and without.

 

Next task... My Yamaha shop will be picking it up next week and installing the Baron's lowering kit that I just got in the mail today.

 

It's so nice when your baby is healthy again. My mind can rest easy now.

[Seaking]

SUPERB!! always great to get the babe up and running again!! Good on ya M8

[BEER30]

My scoot started doing the same thing about 1.5 years ago periodically. Usually after sitting for 4-5 days. I had been pulling the fuel line off the tank and letting the engine idle until with choke on until the carbs ran out of fuel. All four were hitting and would only run with choke on and no throttle. I would also purge some fuel out of the tank in a clear class and let it set over an hour or two. Come back, reconnect the fuel line to the tank and then after a few cranks it would start and a few more minutes begin to pick up rpms. Fuel turned out to be clean and I normally drop 3-4 oz. of Seafoam or 44G every 4-5 tanks for GP.

Well last week it did it again. This time I thought to check out the fuel filter. After I removed the side battery cover, I looked at the fuel pump and dawned to me that this time the fuel pump did not prime up (clicking sound it produces unti fuel pressure is achieved), so I struck the side of the fuel pump on the side and it then started to prime. I went ahead and started the scoot and it ran only with choke on until it finally picked up rpms and then shut the choke off.

So I called Muffinman and told him about it. He confirmed it with Larry, his dealer. Kudos to Larry and Muffinman as Larry took care of me under warranty by replacing my fuel pump. I first took my issues to my NEW dealer as old dealership was acquired by LeJuene Honda. They gave me the run around and now LOST a customer. After that encounter, I requested to have the Yamamha rep call me and they refused to pass the request forward. Since then, I have talked to many of my friends about LeJuene Honda. Looks like I'm not the only customer they have screwed around or gave poor service.

 

So saying, intermittent fuel pump failure may occur now and then. So get the hammer out now and then !

 

 

BEER30

[Yammer Dan]

As Gene said keep a little Sea-Foam or whatever in there ever so often. If you shut it down for winter make sure you put a stabilizer in it. Sta-Built is a good one. I've been hearing a lot of good things about Startron at WallyWorld in the boat section.

[Seaking]

Funny how Beerman mentions the clicking sound on the pump.. My bike was sitting at my friends house for a few days indoors and he had asked me about that sound so I turned my ignition on to let him here it.. but no sound.. but the bike runs fine with great fuel mileage and so on.. no probs.. But I do get the click sound once in a while, not all the time..

 

I wonder if how you shut the bike down makes any amount of difference.. I'm one of those people who will shut it down via Kill switch, ignition, kick stand.. cycling them all through during the course of the week when I shut the bike down.. force of habit I guess. No harm in it.. but I should remember which way was done next time to see if the fuel pump priming has any correlation to it.. HMMMMM

 

Regardless, change that fuel filter each year!!! (or more often if you ride a lot)

[V7Goose]

Funny how Beerman mentions the clicking sound on the pump.. My bike was sitting at my friends house for a few days indoors and he had asked me about that sound so I turned my ignition on to let him here it.. but no sound.. but the bike runs fine with great fuel mileage and so on.. no probs.. But I do get the click sound once in a while, not all the time..

 

I wonder if how you shut the bike down makes any amount of difference.. I'm one of those people who will shut it down via Kill switch, ignition, kick stand.. cycling them all through during the course of the week when I shut the bike down.. force of habit I guess. No harm in it.. but I should remember which way was done next time to see if the fuel pump priming has any correlation to it.. HMMMMM

You need to let the bike sit long enough for some of the fuel to evaporate out of the carburetors before you will hear the fuel pump when you turn the key on. If you have had the engine on any time in the past day or so it should never make any noise because the carburetors should still be full and the line under pressure. It makes no difference how you stop the engine.

 

If you want to check the pump easily, just run the engine for a minute or two with the fuel turned off. Then the next time you turn the key on you should hear the clicking. If you turned the fuel back on, then it will click long enough to fill the carbs, and you can hear it slowing down just before it stops. If you leave the fuel turned off, it will click longer, but eventually stop to prevent burnout.

Goose

[Seaking]

Thanks for the info Goose, I often wondered because the pump clicked this morning when I turned it on after 12 hours sit down.. but didn't after 3 days sit down.. Interesting. Good point..

 

Cheers M8

[Douginflorida]

Thanks. I figured it might be something like that. I wasn't sure though as I am surprised it could happen with such a new bike and with gas that was only 2 months old. But, then again, I've heard lots of stories about bad gas lately.

 

How accessible are the carb drains on this thing? The manual doesn't help much and I can't look myself until the morning.

 

This week, I'll try and drain and flush the carbs then let them sit with some Seafoam in them. I still have a month or more before I really need to winterize it for good.

 

The same thing happened to my 98 RSTD after just a few weeks of sitting,after running just fine. I removed my carbs and took them to an independant shop locally owned by a friend,he disassembled and cleaned them for $60.00 each.I had 2 pilot jets totally blocked,he used a wire drill bit in his fingers to gently clear them.I drained my tank and fuel pump but all looked clean... In talking to the shop, they had many carbs and bikes waiting to have their carbs cleaned. It definately is ethanol fuel related.My bike has never run better.Thanks to this great post,we can hopefully prevent this from happening again.I am a firm believer in seafoam and fuel stabilizers now.

Also we figured that multi carb engines like ours are more prone to clogging due to the smaller jet sizes.My Vulcan 1500 didn't have these issues maybe because 1 carb,larger jets?

Anyway,this is my 1st post,just want to say thanks to all for helping me wake up a neglected 98 RSTD,my 1st after owning a pair of 1500 Vulcans and a few Harleys along the way..Oh and I love the RSTD and the RK pipes are going on this weekend!!

[LilBeaver]

If you have put sea foam in the tank and run it, seafoam contains a stabilizer already. Adding an additional one is not necessary.

I don't see why using Sta-bil or whatever, since it is a dedicated stabilizer, would be a problem - but the point here is that you don't have to go buy some other chemical, unless you want to.

[Guest PlaneCrazy]

You need to let the bike sit long enough for some of the fuel to evaporate out of the carburetors before you will hear the fuel pump when you turn the key on. If you have had the engine on any time in the past day or so it should never make any noise because the carburetors should still be full and the line under pressure. It makes no difference how you stop the engine.

 

If you want to check the pump easily, just run the engine for a minute or two with the fuel turned off. Then the next time you turn the key on you should hear the clicking. If you turned the fuel back on, then it will click long enough to fill the carbs, and you can hear it slowing down just before it stops. If you leave the fuel turned off, it will click longer, but eventually stop to prevent burnout.

Goose

 

 

Hmmm... I wonder if there is actually a pressure switch built into the fuel pump or if the ICM just uses a current detector circuit to detect when the pump has reached high pressure and controls it via the fuel pump relay. Honda's have a similar circuit.

[allen]

Well I guess I will be forced to take mine to the shop. I have been working with it and have run two cans of Seafoam through it over a weeks time, some mixed with gas and I have emptied the carbs and put straight Seafoam in it and let it set. After drainging it and adding more gas it still has not broken loose.

I have also put new plugs in it thinking they may have been fouled, no luck. I have gotten it to where I can start it and keep it running without the choke but only at a high rpm. As soon as I let off it dies.

Any other suggestions before I have to shell out the $120.00 PER carb to have them cleaned and sinked?

 

Allen

[Squeeze]

Ride it like you stole it and VR.org Members are right behind you and catching up .... (OK, of Course 1Genners are much closer than the others ... :D )

[mike4dodge]

Typical story will not run without choke on if you have tried everything you’ve read in here which is good advice with Seafoam etc. and still having a problem?  
 

I just about gave up and was going to take it to the shop to get the carbs overhauled after endless cycles of seafoam B12  and literally every different carburetor cleaner known to man. Mixed together in a catch-up squeeze bottle hooked the fuel one directly to that turned up upside down turn the key on and it sucked all of it in and filled up the carburetors… Pretty ingenious I thought but in the long run it was still running shitty.  Cleaned out the air filters gas tank put brand new precisely set spark plugs. Fresh 100% gasoline 89 octane it just still was not right and now gas is dripping on my floor seems to be coming out of stuck floats in the carburetors… Next is the good part

I thought I would try a last ditch effort but putting a new fuel filter in it maybe it was so stopped up it was causing leaks I would try anything.. found a fuel filter at Napa that would work put it in but before I would put it all get together like it should parentheses which is a pain in the ass turn the key on… Only to find the fuel pump it’s self was leaking out of the center how it did not catch on fire before I do not know I found one on Amazon that was a plug and play at a really good price put it all back together took it out for about an hour hard rod everything is perfect autos without the choke on acceleration is good.  No gas dripping from the carbs my eyes are way too old and tired to try to rebuild a carburetor anymore so if it seems like your back is really close to being right and you have gas pouring out of it try your filter and fuel filter email me or just search on Amazon literally played $29 for a direct fit fuel pump had a really good ride Sunday no problems now just have to get the air correct in my tires and suspension previous box or crotch rockets this is a different deal LOL 

 

Sidenote the only thing I can figure is with the pump leaking and the fuel filter half stopped up it was still not getting enough fuel at the proper level in the bowl and therefore had to be run with the choke still on don’t give a try one more thing before you go to the shop or pull the carbs off