My departure from the Dark Side

[Motorpig]

Well boys,

 

I had a short run on the dark side...about 2500 miles total. I had the Kuhmo on the rear and enjoyed 95% of the experience. The traction was superb, the rear wheel braking was awesome, i didnt notice any difference in the twisties...BUT, where i had the bad experiences were on freeways. Out here in Cali, we have some pretty deep "rain grooves" that at higher speeds could cause a bit of an unpredictable experience.

 

There were somedays i could be travelling at 80 to 85 with no issues then others I would go into a wobble. I checked and maintained the tire pressure often as well as the air pressure of the rear shock so i am certain there were no "outside" influences on my experience. Bottom line is, It just isnt stable enough for my personal riding style.

 

With that said...I have a Kuhmo 165/80/15 with abt 2500 miles on it that is up for grabs...just pay shipping and its yours!

[BuddyRich]

That's the reason I got rid of the CT. Even bike tires can be pushed/pulled by the grooves but I need the bike to be predictable. With the CT on the back it was a guessing game as to when it was going to wobble or push. I had that wobble hit in a 45mph 90degree turn and that was enough for me. But I was running the Nexen .

[Motorpig]

The push/pull of the grooves is to be expected...but what i found is every now and then, it would set me into that "wobble"...I had it hit at 75 mph one time, then a few days later at 80 or 85...On roads without the grooves there would be no issue, but since i spend most of my commute to work on the I-15...just couldnt take the risk.

[Squidley]

I am using Gunboats '99 with a CT on the rear while my car is being fixed and I find the same thing as you have stated. I have probably better than 2500 miles riding Don's bike over the last year and I have found on the slab that above 80 I am getting the slow oscillating wobble. It can be very unnerving and I can say that I wont be installing a CT on my '99 when I am finished redoing it.

[Motorpig]

I had been trying to "diagnose" the wobble so i have been hitting different speeds to see if / when it starts...What made my decision very easy to get off the C/T was when i hit 95 (actual speed) and went into a very hard oscillation that was on the verge of going into a tank slapping wobble...it was the first time in years that i was scared on my motorcycle...I knew it was time.

 

I could have very easily kept the speed under 80 mph and i would have loved every mile of the C/T experience, but like i said in my original post...that just isnt my style of riding yet.

[gunboat]

hi clint

thanks for your input on your c/t experiance. as i have said this is a mod not for everyone. i my self am well pleased with my over all c/t experiance. i have stated before, i have had the wobbles twice. once with a m/c tire and another with my first c/t. but both times i was over 110 mph. i now keep my high speed around 80-85 mph. i cruse around 70-75. i have no need to go faster ( but i have had the bike to 95 with no issuses recently ). send me a pm and i'll buy your c/t from you. thanks again for your insight & thoughts.

reguards

don c.

Edited October 5, 2010 by gunboat

[Art708]

I tried the CT on 2 different motorcycles. Both times I went back to the MC within 3000 miles. I like the concept, I just don't like the way they handle. They can get damned scary if you happen on a deeply rutted patch of road. I'll stick with motorcycle tires from now on. To those who run and like the CT.....good riding and enjoy your choice in tires.

 

Well boys,

 

I had a short run on the dark side...about 2500 miles total. I had the Kuhmo on the rear and enjoyed 95% of the experience. The traction was superb, the rear wheel braking was awesome, i didnt notice any difference in the twisties...BUT, where i had the bad experiences were on freeways. Out here in Cali, we have some pretty deep "rain grooves" that at higher speeds could cause a bit of an unpredictable experience.

 

There were somedays i could be travelling at 80 to 85 with no issues then others I would go into a wobble. I checked and maintained the tire pressure often as well as the air pressure of the rear shock so i am certain there were no "outside" influences on my experience. Bottom line is, It just isnt stable enough for my personal riding style.

 

With that said...I have a Kuhmo 165/80/15 with abt 2500 miles on it that is up for grabs...just pay shipping and its yours!

[Squidley]

I just want to reiterate something here, as I have recieved an email or 2 about my statements above. As always, never use what I, or anyone else says on any thread, Darkside or other, as the gospel. These are our opinions and might not be what you believe of feel. Many folks ride their bike differently than I and every bike is different with it's own inherent quirks. I know there are members that trust some of the members judgements when we say thing about a product or situation. That is somewhat flattering that folks take that much stock in what we say, but I have been wrong at times, so I dont have a perfect track record. Use your best judgement when listening to some of us, we never intentionally steer anyone in the wrong direction.

If you want to try a CT, please do, you will never know how it responds to you until you try it. I'm not telling people not to try one, I want everyone to have information of both the pro's and con's of running anything on their bikes. Some folks bikes never see 75 mph, so you may never had an issue with rideability. The worst case scenario in that you will try it, not like it, and buy a MC tire to install. Your out some time on the install and about $60.

[Ponch]

MotorPig or anyone else who has removed a CT: If the tire is in reasonably good shape, I would be interrested in buying it from you. Not a Nexen, though.

[Guest]

I just want to reiterate something here, as I have recieved an email or 2 about my statements above. As always, never use what I, or anyone else says on any thread, Darkside or other, as the gospel. These are our opinions and might not be what you believe of feel. Many folks ride their bike differently than I and every bike is different with it's own inherent quirks. I know there are members that trust some of the members judgements when we say thing about a product or situation. That is somewhat flattering that folks take that much stock in what we say, but I have been wrong at times, so I dont have a perfect track record. Use your best judgement when listening to some of us, we never intentionally steer anyone in the wrong direction.

 

If you want to try a CT, please do, you will never know how it responds to you until you try it. I'm not telling people not to try one, I want everyone to have information of both the pro's and con's of running anything on their bikes. Some folks bikes never see 75 mph, so you may never had an issue with rideability. The worst case scenario in that you will try it, not like it, and buy a MC tire to install. Your out some time on the install and about $60.

 

Im one of the emails or two. After ordering the CT I began having second and third thoughts. I went back over the various websites and re-read posts on the pros and cons. Once I received the tire and felt the sidewalls, I started having my doubts. I usually run the interstates at over 85, two up, which was one of the reasons why I went back to a 150 front from a 130. Seems most of the CT issues happen within or above those speeds, which is where I live on the highway. And no, I dont take peoples word as gospel, but I do take into consideration their valued opinions. When I do listen, I take their riding experiences into serious consideration, not some squid (pun intended) who just got their licence. The RSV's handle like a bull with arthritis in its left front leg if the air pressure is off by 5 lbs and the bike gets real squirrily. I took mine out, 2 up yesterday and discovered the pressure was low after barely making some turns. Rear tire was down 8 lbs. Once topped off, the bike ran smooth. I have used Avons now for the last 2 tire changes and absolutely love them. That was another thing that weighed on my mind. If it works well, dont change it. That is usually what I try to follow. Even my wife felt uncomfortable about the CT and she has been riding with me or along side me since the 70's. So, that being said, when Squidly posted, it was the final tipping point in my decision to go with the Avon.

 

So, I now have a perfectly new Kuhmo Power Star 758 165/80/R15 for sale. Never even been unwrapped. Cost me 69.00 shipped. Ill let it go for 60 shipped in the states.

[Hummingbird]

The Kumho is NOT for everybody. It seems that we all have different riding habits ass well as terrain. I'm thus far perfectly happy with my Kuhmo, it does what I want for the type of riding that I do.

 

I'd like to buy your Kumho but it'll be several years before I need to replace the one on my Venture.

[BigBoyinMS]

I totally agree with Squidley. It isn't for everyone. I have had to defend using a CT so much that I tend to sound like everyone should have one. But some, for some unknown reason so far, have the wobble and some feel that it handles differently and some just have a mental block on using one.

My experience has been that it handles no differently than a bike tire other than it has much better traction. I've had no inkling of a wobble, at least up to and just over 100 mph... and mentally, it gives me a load more confidence because of the great grip and load rating. Load rating because me, wife and stuff come close to 500 lbs... me being the greater part of that.

As far as road snakes and grooves, etc... I tend to aim for them just to see what it will do and the only time I feel much is patched areas that have a high irregular lip or really wide grooves but nothing that has felt uncontrollable.

Anyway, there's no use to argue or put anyone down for running a CT... like has happened before. It's just a choice.

Me, I like it.

[Guest]

No put downs here for CT users. But my wife being uncomfortable with the idea was also a factor, and ill listen to her before Squidly any day....(to admit otherwise is foolish and Squid will need to let me live in his garage).

So close, but so far.......

[footsie]

Ruffy

 

I would suggest you try the ct since you have bought it, I have had no problems with mine, I run any speed I want with no trouble and its great two up. I run 36 psi frount and 32 in the rear, but I also have a radial tire on frount, Avon cobra.

I have stated I believe that if you put a radial on back then put a radial on the frount.

If you have a problem, then go back to a mc tire.

I would suggest anyone who is having any problems to change back to a mc tire.

Do not ride in any situation that makes you uncomfortable.

 

Gregg

[Ponch]

I still like the Kumho, but .....

I installed a set of gauges on a Hot Rod 07' Venture over the weekend. He has a 180/70/15 ME880 on the rear. Wow! Rides smooth and sure. I'm thinkin' of trying this out (even if it is a Metzler).

[Hummingbird]

just playing devils advocate and don't mean to ruffle too many feathers

 

 

BUT

 

 

why is it soooo important to run 80 plus mph ? In ohio the maximum speed limit is 65 and occasionally I get all the way up to 75 when I travel South of Ohio.

[Motorpig]

Hummingbird,

 

Not ruffling my feathers at all...out here in California, if you run 65 on the freeway you will get run over by a semi-truck, then run over again by the SUV being driven by the split-tail talking on her cell phone while putting on her make-up! But even above that, we all have our "comfort" zones and mine is around 80 to 85 mph on the freeways.

 

For everyone who has mentioned this in the thread....

 

If you are new here and want to try a car tire, then by all means, do so! Give it a shot. I made my decision on my own...i used Footsie's set up and bought the Kuhmo and the Avon front tire. I even matched his tire pressure 32 rear/36 front. I rode that for 1000 miles and was happy excpet when i hit the wobble.

 

I then changed the pressure to 54 rear after talking with hummingbird, the ride was smooth and i only got the wobble at much higher speeds (95+)....BUT the wobble was still there and i found the ride was very hard on my back at that PSI.

 

I went back to the 32 PSI and started "experimenting" with the tire to see where its limitations were. I found that 85 to 90 mph gave me about a 25% chance of hitting the wobble. There were plenty of times i would run that speed with no wobble at all...but for me, 25% is 25% too much...i NEED my bike to respond safely and consistently at any speed!

 

For those who are curious, I have been riding streetbikes for about 15 years. I have owned / ridden numerous bikes and rode a police motor for four years before buying my venture. I started keeping track about 7 years ago and have documented well over 200,000 miles since then. I wouldn't dissuade anyone from trying the car tire, but i also would be the first to the tell someone to switch it back immediately if you dont have 100% confidence in your bike...mistakes on motorcycles are very unforgiving. For me, my RSV car tire experience is over unless someone comes out with a different type/size of tire...then i might try it again. If not, then in a few years when i pick up a Goldwing i may try it again there, my brother has been running a C/T for years on his Wing and swears by it.

[BuddyRich]

Speed limit on I10 and I20 here in TX is 80. So the average speed is 85. That goes for about 400 miles of it anyway. AZ is 75 and they are quite often running 85.

[V7Goose]

I still like the Kumho, but .....

 

I installed a set of gauges on a Hot Rod 07' Venture over the weekend. He has a 180/70/15 ME880 on the rear. Wow! Rides smooth and sure. I'm thinkin' of trying this out (even if it is a Metzler).

Bad idea Ponch. You already know how poorly made and dangerous the ME880 is in 150/90-15 size, and how Metzeler treats their customers. But even if you are willing to live with that, their 180/70-15 tire is spec'ed for a 5.00" rim, with a minimum rim size of 4.25". Our rim is 4.00".

 

You might consider the Avon Venom 170/80-15 instead. It has almost the same maximum width (just 2 mm less) and even a slightly larger diameter (659 mm vs. 645 mm). And it is spec'd for a 4.00" rim.

Goose

[saltcreep]

Do the CT's follow the grooves more because the treads run the direction you are traveling? Just wonder why they would do that more than Motorcycle tires?

[V7Goose]

Do the CT's follow the grooves more because the treads run the direction you are traveling? Just wonder why they would do that more than Motorcycle tires?

Car tires handle very much like a worn out motorcycle tire that is flat across the center and has sharp edges instead of the normal rounded shape on the sides. The square corner will not roll smoothly over a ridge or other imperfection on the road surface. Instead, it grabs it and tries to "jump" over it, which is why you feel it so much.

 

In actuality, the corner of the tread having a very quick roll-off instead of the long sweeping curve of a rounded motorcycle tire makes that edge function like a VERY THIN motorcycle tire that tries to turn over those ridges - that is what I meant by "jump" them.

 

Most paint stripes on the road today are very thick and raised a bit above the surrounding surface. If you follow a bike with a CT on it and watch as they cross those paint stripes, you will see the rear end jiggle and jump as it tries to move very quickly over that edge.

Goose

Edited October 6, 2010 by V7Goose

[Freebird]

Heck with the tire...I want to know more about the "hot rod venture"...what has been done to it?

[Ponch]

Bad idea Ponch. You already know how poorly made and dangerous the ME880 is in 150/90-15 size, and how Metzeler treats their customers. But even if you are willing to live with that, their 180/70-15 tire is spec'ed for a 5.00" rim, with a minimum rim size of 4.25". Our rim is 4.00".

 

You might consider the Avon Venom 170/80-15 instead. It has almost the same maximum width (just 2 mm less) and even a slightly larger diameter (659 mm vs. 645 mm). And it is spec'd for a 4.00" rim.

Goose

 

Good point! All's I can say is it handles great. I did some snooping and found the same thing (rim width). I prolly wouldn't go with the ME880 anyway since they are available from other mfg's.

 

Heck with the tire...I want to know more about the "hot rod venture"...what has been done to it?

 

It belongs to Kevfish. I don't believe he has ever posted, but he is a supporting member and does read the posts.

 

His motor has a VMax cam, VMax sized valves with custom valve guides, ported & polished heads, totally cleaned out air supply plumbing from the filters (all raised & high points flushed down), modified Air Boxes w/ K&N filters, Dyna3K ignition, maximum jetting on the carbs. and Full Bub exhaust except the pipes are 1 1/2" (guessing, I didn't measure) with custom made adapters at the heads. These pipes match the Bub heat shields perfectly!

The AIS is completely removed. Apparantly, the AIS port in two of the heads choke off the air flow to the corresponding valves pretty significantly. These protrusions were totally removed and plugged.

This thing runs awesome! All work was done by a race bike tech. in Houston.

[BuddyRich]

Any idea what his HP is now?

[Ponch]

98HP @ Rear Wheel