who shifts with out using clutch

[REDRIDER52]

Now that I have triked my bike find my self shifting gears with out using clutch only to start and stop Have done this on 2 wheels but doing more now Any one else doing this on 2wheels or trike

[friesman]

I do most of the time now, i used to use the clutch, but now i find i get a smoother shift by putting my toe under the lever lightly lift, and then blip the throttle and the gear just falls in place. I was real skeptical of this at first when i heard about it and gritted my teeth the first few times but it works very well.

 

I do downshift with a clutch however so i can rev up for the next lower gear.

 

Brian

[rwrenn1]

In a tractor trailer thats about the only way we up and downshift so why not on the bike. as for downshifting you just need to rev the throttle the right way to match the engine with the tranny

[BuddyRich]

Yep, It works with just about any tranny out there.

[midnightventure]

I used to with a chain drive all the time but I don't with a shaft drive.

[hipshot]

if you learn to shift with the "sound" of your engine, (right r.p.m.s. for the gear you are in), you don't even need a clutch.

same for downshifting.

i think this kind of driving is less strenuous on the whole drive train.

just jt

[Marcarl]

What I would like to know, is how to downshift on a scoot. You need to increase the RPMs to match the speed of the lower gear,,, so much understood,, but how do you raise the RPMs with the scooter still in gear??? so far I have been unable to find neutral between the gears so that I can accomplish this.

Maybe I'm just not smart enough and I need to be enlightened.

[Dano]

Hold down on the shifter as you're blipping the throttle, harder pressure at 1/3rd higher throttle and it should glide right in. Might take you some practice tho Carl, you know, that age thing.........

[eazyduzzit]

When I drove a truck (30 years ago) I shifted without the clutch. It felt smooth in that old Mack, but it doesn't feel right to me on the bike.

[Rick Haywood]

Why would you shift a motorcycle without using the clutch? What is the reason? It also can not be good for it

 

In a big truck it is fine since the tranny isn't synchronized but on a bike you will tear out the patronizers if you keep it up

 

I also still do not understand why you would want to

Edited September 30, 2010 by Rick Haywood

[BradT]

Upshifted a few times, worked fine, but it was only because I forgot to pull in the clutch, just one of those moments.

 

Not something I like to do does not seem right on a bike.

 

Brad

[scotty]

Go with whatever makes you comfortable and delivers a smooth dependable shift.

When driving a highway truck I don't use the clutch.

When riding the bike I always use the clutch.

I bought a pickup with a bad 3rd gear syncro and it likes to be double clutched.

[MikeWa]

Yamaha recommends against it. But it must happen often enough for them to bring it up in the owners manual. That said I hardly ever used the clutch on my old Honda 350. So far I have resisted the no clutch urge on the Venture even though there have been times I thought about it. Some how it just seems like there are to many things that could be twisted or broken and this bike is my baby.

 

Mike

[SilvrT]

Why would you shift a motorcycle without using the clutch? What is the reason? It also can not be good for it

 

In a big truck it is fine since the tranny isn't synchronized but on a bike you will tear out the patronizers if you keep it up

 

I also still do not understand why you would want to

 

"patronizers" ...?

 

ok, this is a new one for me... 'splain please.

 

Now as for syncronized tranny's, it seems to me that shifting without the clutch is a lot easier when the tranny IS syncronized. Now I know the tranny isn't syncronized in our scoots but I do believe that they are "constant mesh" (or something like that), which also makes it possible to shift without the use of the clutch.

 

I oftentimes shift without the clutch. Been doing it for many years on several bikes. Done a fair share of downshifting without the clutch too; however, I do believe this is, or can be, hard on the shifting forks and other components if you don't get the revvs just right.

 

As for up shifting, it's a piece of cake, takes very little pressure and is instantaneous and I've never had tranny problems on any bike... well, I'm not counting my old Triumph Bonneville 650 (1972 model). But that thing was a P.O.S. when I bought it.

 

Oh, I forgot to answer the "why" question. Because it's reduces strain on the left hand, is a much quicker and smoother shift, there's absolutely no loss of power or hesitation between shifts and, if you're havvin yerself a little drag race, it will give you a major edge if the other guy is clutchin it.

 

Having said the above, if you're just lobbing along, taking your sweet time, and not running the rpm's up before shifting... kinda like maybe you're shifting wayyyy too soon and lugging the sukkah... then I'd advise you use the clutch.

Edited September 30, 2010 by SilvrT

[Yammer Dan]

Now that I have triked my bike find my self shifting gears with out using clutch only to start and stop Have done this on 2 wheels but doing more now Any one else doing this on 2wheels or trike

 

 

Depends on how close the 2nd Gen is. Usually not a concern!!

[Hummingbird]

I drove an old International cab-over for several years and the only thing the clutch was good for was sitting at a traffic light, going up or down was quicker and easier w/o the clutch.

 

However, I don't understand why anybody would want to deliberately eliminate the clutch on a Venture (1st or 2nd gen) for perhaps the sake of speed or ease. There's got to be stress and strain involved that will eventually put the drive train in jeopardy.

 

I'm not a mechanic but it sure seems like a deliberate abuse of the pecking order with regard to drive train use.

 

It doesn't make sense to me but then I already admitted ' I'm not a mechanic '

 

Bottom line -- it's a personal decision

[SilvrT]

I drove an old International cab-over for several years and the only thing the clutch was good for was sitting at a traffic light, going up or down was quicker and easier w/o the clutch.

 

However, I don't understand why anybody would want to deliberately eliminate the clutch on a Venture (1st or 2nd gen) for perhaps the sake of speed or ease. There's got to be stress and strain involved that will eventually put the drive train in jeopardy.

 

 

If it was ok to shift the "old International" without the clutch, then why would it not be ok to shift the Venture without the clutch? Why would the drive train be in jeopardy on the Venture and not on the International?

 

To me, that doesn't make sense but then again, a lot of things don't make sense to me LOL. (I guess that's why I like to question them)

[ediddy]

Why would you not use the clutch? If you are incapable of using the clutch you probably don't need to ride a motorcycle. It reminds me of the people that are to lazy to use a turn signal. It iritates me to be waiting on a car and they all of a sudden they turn without using the turn signal. Maybe someone can find a way not to use the throttle or the front brake.

[Condor]

I can't shift without using the clutch. After fifty years of riding it just doesn't seem right not to. It's tatoo'd on my brain's frontal lobe... That said I can still snap through the gears with the best of 'm....

[mspookw]

On my smaller Jap bikes; rm 125, honda sl350, t 250, xs 650 I almost always upshifted without clutching by just blipping the throttle. Downshifting is smoother using the clutch. When I had my Harleys; 49 pan, 80'' flh I always use the clutch up and down. There seemed to be just too much spinning mass in there to make shifting without the clucth graceful. With my 89 vr I clutch up and down. My v65 sabre I shift up without clutching when I'm in a hurry. Which is most of the time on that bike.

 

A down shifting technique I have used in situations where I need to slow down fast is to clutch and go down 2 gears and feather the clutch in to control tire chirp. I wouldn't recommend it on wet roads though.

[Mel]

I don't understand why anyone would want to abuse the transmission by shifting without the clutch. Going directly from one gear to another (constant mesh) is putting a shock and strain on the transmission components that the clutch action is there to relieve. I think that after enough repititions of this abuse there has to be some adverse consequenses (like broken or overly worn parts). After all, you are pushing around 900 (up to ?) pounds and all that direct shift input can't be good!

 

 

Drag raced motorcycles in my young and dumb years, always used the clutch. Did not want to disintegrate the transmission, maybe have it lock up at 115 MPH.

 

 

My $.02.

[slick97spirit]

I upshift (no unclutched down shifting) without the clutch if my left hand happens to be full of a 5x50 Nicaraguan stogie.

 

I don't see the harm in doing so if done correctly.

[SilvrT]

Wikipedea

Most modern motorcycles use unsynchronized transmissions as synchronizers are generally not necessary or desirable. Their low gear inertias and higher strengths mean that forcing the gears to alter speed is not damaging, and the pedal operated selector on modern motorcycles is not conducive to having the long shift time of a synchronized gearbox. Because of this, it is necessary to synchronize gear speeds by blipping the throttle when shifting into a lower gear on a motorcycle

 

Motorcycleforum

motorcycles have constant mesh sequential transmissions. no synchros. you can upshift or downshift at any rpm without the clutch. won't even damage the trans.

 

the clutch is there to get you out of first, and allow you to control how much power gets to the wheels, and how smoothly it's applied--in the case of downshifting, you're using it to reduce the driveline shock so you don't lock up the rear or overload it midcorner.

 

This topic has come up numerous times and it's always the same thing. Those that swear by their clutches, those that aren't afraid to shift without it and those that just flat out don't have a clue what they are talking about.

 

Those of you that have it figured out... congrats!!!!

 

Car tranny and bike tranny= completely different.

In a bike tranny all of the gears on the main shaft are meshed with all of the gears on the counter shaft all of the time. The only things that engage when you shift are the dogs on a slider gear to the slots on a freewheeling gear.

 

Shifting without the clutch on a bike isn't going to hurt a thing. You would actually have to do some pretty bone headed stuff to mess it up. Like red line 3rd and kick the bike down into second.

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SilvrT

My feeling is as above and as long as you pre-load the shifter before you "blip" the throttle, I don't feel any damage will occur. I have up-shifted without the clutch numerous times under varying conditions such as normal driving and hard on the throttle racing and not once have I "blown a shift" or felt any grinding or mis-engagement. Having said that, I NEVER shift without the clutch between 1st and 2nd due to the possibility of hitting neutral. As for shifting with the clutch, I have, on a few occasions, hit a "dead spot" between the gears and over-revved the engine (not necessarilly on my current scoot).

 

In any event, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and beliefs.... these are just mine, you can take 'em or not.

[LilBeaver]

Wikipedea

...

There is a high quality source, right there

 

Not to mention the quality of THIS one:

 

...

SilvrT

 

...

 

 

My feeling is as above and as long as you pre-load the shifter before you "blip" the throttle, I don't feel any damage will occur. I have up-shifted without the clutch numerous times under varying conditions such as normal driving and hard on the throttle racing and not once have I "blown a shift" or felt any grinding or mis-engagement. Having said that, I NEVER shift without the clutch between 1st and 2nd due to the possibility of hitting neutral. As for shifting with the clutch, I have, on a few occasions, hit a "dead spot" between the gears and over-revved the engine (not necessarily on my current scoot).

...

 

Kidding aside though; I do think this makes a lot of sense (and not kind either).

[REDRIDER52]

AS trike owners know you have to push or pull on the handlebars to turn at that point I can shift into second while turning with out trying to reach for clutch were I live there is a stop sign then you turn right and then left after starting out keeps hand and arms busy