Put in PCW spring/Skydoc's clutch upgrade now clutch lever won't move

[LilBeaver]

01 RSV clutch upgrade issue.

 

So. I followed the instructions (or so I thought, I guess) replaced the half friction disc with the full one, removed the retaining wire and the spring/washer deeley, put it all back together as instructed (lining up all of the 'notches' in the friction discs, etc).

Torqued the outer ring with the 6 bolts to the required 70 in-lb, re-installed gasket and cover and now my clutch lever is so stiff I can't even move it with both hands.

 

Mind you, I tried with one hand and it didn't budge - I didn't squeeze much harder than that because I didn't want to break anything.

 

What the crap. Any suggestions on what to check or what went wrong? I am baffled and a little honked.

Edited August 29, 2010 by LilBeaver

[Sleeperhawk]

01 RSV clutch upgrade issue.

 

So. I followed the instructions (or so I thought, I guess) replaced the half friction disc with the full one, removed the retaining wire and the spring/washer deeley, put it all back together as instructed (lining up all of the 'notches' in the friction discs, etc).

Torqued the outer ring with the 6 bolts to the required 70 in-lb, re-installed gasket and cover and now my clutch lever is so stiff I can't even move it with both hands.

 

Mind you, I tried with one hand and it didn't budge - I didn't squeeze much harder than that because I didn't want to break anything.

 

What the crap. Any suggestions on what to check or what went wrong? I am baffled and a little honked.

 

Absolutely sure you have all the pieces back in correctly? including the "plunger" with the ball in the center?

 

Also, read this thread

[LilBeaver]

Son of a b.

 

Below is from the instructions that were sent/in the 2nd gen tech library

All the way in on the cutch, you will see where you took the plates and friction discs out, a wire. Remove this wire. You will need to break it. This holds in a steel disc like all the others, a half disc and a spring washer. You need to take all of these out. These parts are the parts that you will trash if you choose to upgrade and put in a full size disc. If not, keep all these parts and take note how they come out so that you can return them as they came out. Make sure you get everything out. There is a flat steel washer in there that you have to work at getting out. It does come out and when you get it, the inner surface will be completely flat. Below is a picture of the parts that will be discarded in place of a full sized plate. The plate you will use is the same plate and part number as the rest.

Okay so, am I reading this correctly: By replacing the 1/2 friction disc with a full friction disc the steel plate that was behind the wire WITH the 1/2 friction disc BOTH need to be removed (opposed to just the friction disc)??

 

And how many of those really thin steel washers should there be in there to begin with? - just one, I presume (based on the service manual).

[LilBeaver]

Absolutely sure you have all the pieces back in correctly? including the "plunger" with the ball in the center?

 

Also, read this thread

 

I did not remove any little 'plunger'...

 

Obviously I screwed something up, otherwise I would be out riding right now instead of in here trying to figure out what I screwed up

[LilBeaver]

Maybe this will be helpful.

 

Left over parts:

1) Thin washer that is not quite flat (qty 1)

2) Friction disc that is about 1/2 the size of the rest of them (qty 1)

3) Retaining wire that was around the center of the inside of the clutch basket thing - holding in place a steel disc, 1/2 friction plate and a washer (qty 1)

[Sleeperhawk]

Maybe this will be helpful.

 

Left over parts:

1) Thin washer that is not quite flat (qty 1)

2) Friction disc that is about 1/2 the size of the rest of them (qty 1)

3) Retaining wire that was around the center of the inside of the clutch basket thing - holding in place a steel disc, 1/2 friction plate and a washer (qty 1)

 

Well, that looks like the right parts left over and 1 and 2 were replaced with a full disc ?

 

As the one thread states, try bleeding some clutch fluid.

[Sleeperhawk]

Son of a b.

 

Below is from the instructions that were sent/in the 2nd gen tech library

Okay so, am I reading this correctly: By replacing the 1/2 friction disc with a full friction disc the steel plate that was behind the wire WITH the 1/2 friction disc BOTH need to be removed (opposed to just the friction disc)??

 

And how many of those really thin steel washers should there be in there to begin with? - just one, I presume (based on the service manual).

 

If you do not have the parts left over as shown in Freebird's picture, then the clutch mod was done incorrectly. Unless you decide to leave all as is, and just replace the OEM spring with the PCW spring.

[LilBeaver]

Well, that looks like the right parts left over and 1 and 2 were replaced with a full disc ?

 

As the one thread states, try bleeding some clutch fluid.

 

Which thread are you referring to?

 

I will try bleeding off some fluid in a few minutes.

 

#1 was not replaced with anything (shown on the top of the stack in the attached picture).

#2 was replaced with a full friction disc (it looked identical to the rest of them in the clutch pack.

[Sleeperhawk]

Which thread are you referring to?

 

I will try bleeding off some fluid in a few minutes.

 

#1 was not replaced with anything (shown on the top of the stack in the attached picture).

#2 was replaced with a full friction disc (it looked identical to the rest of them in the clutch pack.

 

Sorry, forgot the link

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=10518

[LilBeaver]

If you do not have the parts left over as shown in Freebird's picture, then the clutch mod was done incorrectly. Unless you decide to leave all as is, and just replace the OEM spring with the PCW spring.

 

I guess I am a little confused because I only see 1 of those very thin steel washers where Freebird's picture has 2.

 

Hmm... Maybe I should just put it back like it was except for the spring. Dang-nabit.

 

Edit: When I say all I 'see' I mean both on my bike AND in the service manual

Edited August 29, 2010 by LilBeaver
added statement for clarity

[LilBeaver]

Sorry, forgot the link

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=10518

 

 

Okay these are the 'instructions' I was using/going by.

Thanks.

 

Now that I have finished my lunch, I'm going to step out to the garage and pull it all back apart to see if maybe I had missed one of those little ones in the back or something...

 

Thanks a lot Sleeperhawk.

[Sleeperhawk]

I guess I am a little confused because I only see 1 of those very thin steel washers where Freebird's picture has 2.

 

Hmm... Maybe I should just put it back like it was except for the spring. Dang-nabit.

 

Not that hard, now that you have the retaining wire out. But that second flat one sits flush with the back of the clutch drum.

[LilBeaver]

Okay. Back apart and sure enough, there it is.

 

Based on the difficulty of getting it out (it is still on there, by the way) AND what the service manual shows, I had assumed [incorrectly apparently] that it was part of what it is 'stuck' to.

 

:bang head:

 

Thanks again. Hopefully this is it. And now that I have undone it and will button it back up again - hopefully the gasket is okay and won't leak.

[V7Goose]

Your pressure plate is not correctly seated in the teeth of the clutch hub. Before you even get the spring bolts finger tight, you need to wiggle the pressure plate some to see that it is fully seated in the hub.

Goose

[LilBeaver]

Your pressure plate is not correctly seated in the teeth of the clutch hub. Before you even get the spring bolts finger tight, you need to wiggle the pressure plate some to see that it is fully seated in the hub.

Goose

 

Thanks, i'll check that too.

 

Back to the garage for a few...

[royalstarjac]

You're sure you tightened it to 70 in/lbs?

That is about the equivalent of 5.8 ft/lbs. Not alot of torque.

Edited August 29, 2010 by royalstarjac

[LilBeaver]

Thanks all for the input. I got the other metal washer out, thanks to the help of a small magnet, the pack back in AND the pressure plate seated PROPERLY now. Now I have left is to put the outer cover back on.

 

Lets hope for no leaks (and of course a properly functioning clutch).

 

Thanks again for the input!

 

You're sure you tightened it to 70 in/lbs?

That is about the equivalent of 5.8 ft/lbs. Not alot of torque.

 

Yes, I think I quadruple checked this in the manual and the instructions in the tech library because I saw that the specs were so low. When putting it on I ended up starting around 30 in-lb, and going up in steps of 15, then finished at 70 in-lb.

Thanks though, that would have been an easy thing to miss.

[Condor]

You're sure you tightened it to 70 in/lbs?

That is about the equivalent of 5.8 ft/lbs. Not alot of torque.

 

5.8 ft/lbs is what the 2ndGen manual calls for. It does seem kinda weak. The screws on the 1stGens are 10 ft/lbs. At that torque I don't even use a torque wrench and just snug 'm down with a 1/4" rachet.

 

On the stiff non-op clutch lever, with the pressure plate off try squeezing the lever very so slightly with a finger on the push rods. If the rods move then the problem is in the basket assembly. If it doesn't move the problem is from the slave to the master. It seems kinda dumb, but it eliminates half of the clutch system of errors. If it's in the basket put it together and try squeezing the lever again to see if the plate will move. If everything is working OK then button it up. If it doesn't work after the cover's on then you might be hitting the cover?? Just a thought....

[LilBeaver]

Just got back from a spin around the block. Not a very thorough test run, but I pulled through the gears a few times and it feels okay. The first hard accell I thought it was the same as before until I glanced down at the speedo . It sure didn't take long to find 80. So up-shift twice and ease on back down to the speed limit.

My friction zone has been cut in half, maybe a little more. That is, where I would have expected the clutch to be about 1/2 engaged it is now just beginning to engage. I need to spend some time in a parking lot getting used to this since during low speed maneuvering that is about where I would always sit. But, no big deal... for now.

In terms of the stiffness of the lever, I didn't really notice a difference at all. Measuring the two plates, the one that was in there is a little bit thinner, but oh well.

 

I guess I need to load up and take a 'real' test run... Few hundred miles and we'll see what it is like.

 

So the 30 minute job took me a few hours. I guess that's what I get for being such a dumb-arse.

 

5.8 ft/lbs is what the 2ndGen manual calls for. It does seem kinda weak. The screws on the 1stGens are 10 ft/lbs. At that torque I don't even use a torque wrench and just snug 'm down with a 1/4" rachet.

 

On the stiff non-op clutch lever, with the pressure plate off try squeezing the lever very so slightly with a finger on the push rods. If the rods move then the problem is in the basket assembly. If it doesn't move the problem is from the slave to the master. It seems kinda dumb, but it eliminates half of the clutch system of errors. If it's in the basket put it together and try squeezing the lever again to see if the plate will move. If everything is working OK then button it up. If it doesn't work after the cover's on then you might be hitting the cover?? Just a thought....

 

Thanks Jack. 8 m-N is what the book calls for (which is ~70 in-lb). Snugging it up would probably have been fine. But I have the appropriate torque wrench and I'm just that kind of guy.

Between the extra part and the pressure plate alignment, I've got it fixed. Good approach though!

 

 

 

Thanks again for all of the quick responses!

 

And THANKS to Skydoc for the info ahead of time and getting me the parts!

You too Squid for the convo, advice, etc.

[Sylvester]

The clutch pull will soften back into the original but the friction zone will stay tight. At least that is what mine did. I had the friction starting at the beginning of the lever pull but it has settled back to about 3/8" from beginning. The clutch really grabs.

 

[LilBeaver]

The clutch pull will soften back into the original but the friction zone will stay tight. At least that is what mine did. I had the friction starting at the beginning of the lever pull but it has settled back to about 3/8" from beginning. The clutch really grabs.

 

 

 

Gotcha. Based on my understanding of the 'friction zone' and what causes it to be smaller (or larger for that matter) the only thing that would actually restore it would be to reduce the surface area of one (or some) of the friction discs them-selves - ie. go back to the stock 1/2 disc.

 

I'll let-r-rip for a few weeks and see how it goes.

[saltcreep]

What was the cause of the non-op lever? Was it the pressure plate not being seated properly?

 

Ran into this Sat, and could not find a resolution, but I think my problem may be the Clutch master cylinder (1st gen) and have ordered a rebuild kit for that.

[LilBeaver]

What was the cause of the non-op lever? Was it the pressure plate not being seated properly?

 

Ran into this Sat, and could not find a resolution, but I think my problem may be the Clutch master cylinder (1st gen) and have ordered a rebuild kit for that.

 

Oh whoops. I thought I had posted the 'conclusion'.

 

I am pretty sure the cause of the non-operative lever was that my pressure plate was not seated properly (as goose had mentioned).

 

[BuddyRich]

5th at about 50mph and roll on the throttle all the way. If its gonna slip that's where it will happen at. High gear, low speed, and full throttle roll on.

[Dave77459]

Your loss of friction zone is what I experienced. However, it appeared the same until I replaced the coffee-coloured clutch fluid with new. When I did that, my friction zone evaporated. After riding it for a while, I have gotten used to it and don't have problems with it.

 

Dave