Brushes OK?

[Trader]

Well, I finally got my starter out....haven't had a chance to work on it for a few days.

 

I even got 2 broken bolts and stripped thermostat bolts out!

 

When I opened the starter I was expecting a LOT of dust etc...but there wasn't hardly any. Which makes me wonder if the PO had done anywork on it.

Question....the brushes are about 7/16 (or 1 cm") in length. They look like they fill the length of the holders pretty well so I'm thinking they are nearly new.

 

But you tell me.....Do these have lots of life left or should they be replaced?

 

I'm thinking it is such a PITA to get to, I might just as well do it while I'm here.

 

I'm planning on putting in Dingy's ground mod...anything else I should do while I'm there?

polish anything or ?????

 

I'm in uncharted territory as far as anything I've done before!

[dingy]

Minimum brush length is 4.5 mm or .177"

 

Page 7-5 of service manual

 

If you do not have a copy you can download it at location shown in this thread. This one is the only complete 83-85 manual I have found. Most of them are missing about 10 pages. Snaggletooth scanned the missing pages from his hardcopy & I inserted them were needed.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=43688

 

Gary

[Trader]

the link to the manual is not there but I do have a copy anyway.

 

OK...so now I know my brushes are good.

 

other than doing the checks shown in the manual, do I polish the armature or anything?

 

Or do I just do your mod and put it back to gether.

[dingy]

Polish the commutator face with 600 grit emery.

 

Lightly do the same to brush contact face.

 

Check the depth of the mica insulators.

 

Do an electrical ohm test between coils 1.5M ohm or more.

 

Put a SMALL amount of grease in bearings. Too much is bad.

 

Reassemble.

 

Gary

[Trader]

I took the armature in to a starter rebuild shop and they tested it...it was OK

 

I did the Dingy mod and now it won't even turn over even if I connect a good battery Pos. directly to the terminal and Neg to the long screws holding the starter together.

 

I've ordered new brushes even though I think my old ones are almost new (see pic in Post #1)

 

QUESTION: 1 brush has bare wires...the other is shielded with "fabric" type sheath.

 

The fabric is basically rotten so I taped it with electrical tape...but I'm concerned it might just melt off.

 

But could that cause it to not even turn over?

Could it be something else???

[bkuhr]

Brush faces need nearly 100% contact with commutators. Suspect 1 of your brushes barely making contact with 1 off center commutator and not completing a circuit thru the windings.

see my post #6 from here

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=51395&highlight=brush

 

Also possible assembled incorrectly. Does shaft turn by hand? Does it spark as if short circuit? Test with ohm meter from center post to case, not sure exactly but I think less than 3 ohms is about correct. ~ or open means something not connected or brush problem above. Maybe brush springs not pushing on back of brushes......

 

Yes, vinal tape will melt. Trying to think of something common you can use as a substitute. I think brush on poly-vinal (like dippimg tool handles) will also melt. Same with vinal tubing. Rubber tubing will dry out and crack. Maybe some kind of fiberglass cloth?(wrap it around and tie it with lengths of fiber). Probably cant find any kind of asbestis cloth.

[jasonm.]

I took the armature in to a starter rebuild shop and they tested it...it was OK

 

I did the Dingy mod and now it won't even turn over even if I connect a good battery Pos. directly to the terminal and Neg to the long screws holding the starter together.

 

I've ordered new brushes even though I think my old ones are almost new (see pic in Post #1)

 

QUESTION: 1 brush has bare wires...the other is shielded with "fabric" type sheath.

 

The fabric is basically rotten so I taped it with electrical tape...but I'm concerned it might just melt off.

 

But could that cause it to not even turn over?

Could it be something else???

In old starters. The bare wire one was the ground brush. Don't get you polarity mixed up. That would be a problem...

[Marcarl]

Try a bench teat on it before you install it. That way you eliminate some possible issues and it's quicker to take apart to install the parts you thought were of little importance before.

When I take brushes out,,, and yours look just fine and serviceable, I clean the armature, where the brushes contact, with spray electronic cleaner, use a 600 or finer sandpaper, clean again, then check for any dirt in between the copper, clean that out carefully, carefully resurface the business end of the brushes, got to keep them flat and level, careful with the file, it's only carbon and disappears instantly.

Then I cross my fingers and put it back together, bench test it,,, take it all apart to see how it should be done right, go to the parts fiche, shop manual, call my friends and finally find out how it was done when it was new,,,,,,, so you're well on the way to success.