Starter not starting

[Trader]

I've charged the battery (1year old gel battery)

I cleaned and tightened the connection on the front of the starter

I've cleaned and tightened both battery terminals

I inspected and checked tightness on Ground at front left of motor

 

STILL turns over so slow (even when cold) it won't start

 

so now what??????????????????????????????????

I've got heavier battery cables on order but they could be 2 weeks away!

[Snaggletooth]

Trader, try this to isolate the problem.

 

Using a set of jumper cables, run the neg cable from the neg battery post to the body of the starter. Hook up the pos cable to the pos battery post than tap the other end of the pos cable to the mounting stud on the starter. If that cranks it over you know the problem is between the battery and the starter. (cables, starter solenoid, connections)

 

If the starter still drags then you know you have a problem there.

 

If you don't have bike sized jumper cables use caution. Gets kinda tight with car cables.

 

But is a quick way to see if the starter is the problem.

 

Make sure the battery is charged up.

 

Mike

[Kregerdoodle]

you know that those first gens have a crank slot in the front, kinda like an old tractor...did you try that??

 

Just kidding, I would double check all your grounds, though I have seen a gel battery go south very early in their life...

 

Good luck and keep us posted

[paysaw]

Hi.Did you try to boost it with your car battery? if so, see if it turns over slowly.If it does you could have starter problems.When you boost it with the car battery, if it is still slow, STOP immediately.Check the connections to your starter relay located on the left front of bike near the battery connections.Check the voltage on your battery before starting.It should read about 12.5 volts or so.I had the same problems as you and I just changed my battery.If you have not trickle charged your battery when not in use, you can kill it sometimes.I am sure other people will jump in here to help .Good luck and keep us posted.

[Yammer Dan]

Hi.Did you try to boost it with your car battery? if so, see if it turns over slowly.If it does you could have starter problems.When you boost it with the car battery, if it is still slow, STOP immediately.Check the connections to your starter relay located on the left front of bike near the battery connections.Check the voltage on your battery before starting.It should read about 12.5 volts or so.I had the same problems as you and I just changed my battery.If you have not trickle charged your battery when not in use, you can kill it sometimes.I am sure other people will jump in here to help .Good luck and keep us posted.

 

 

Don't do it with the car running!

[Snaggletooth]

If you jump from the car......do it with the car off. OK. Too much of good thing is a bad thing for the system on these bikes.

[Trader]

OK....update.

 

• cleaned & tightened all connectons...charged battery = starter very slow....as if battery was dead!
  
• used jumper cables direct to terminal on starter and good ground from bike battery = very slow
  
• used jumper cables direct to terminal on starter and good ground from car battery = very slow
  
• tried jumping from car battery to bike battery (car not running) STILL =starter very slow.(jumpers were getting warm!)
  

So now what...time to pull the starter?

[dingy]

So now what...time to pull the starter?

 

It's that time.

 

Gary

[Trader]

SIGH!

 

OK...so I have to pull the starter....so what can I do while I've got it off?

I"m planning on replacing the brushes and doing Dingy's Ground Mod?

I have a set of Battery cables on order from JB

 

Anything else I need to do while I'm at it?

 

Can anybody recommend a cheap source for QUALITY brushes?

 

Snagletooth told me he bought cheap ones on ebay and basically destroyed his starter!

 

I don't want to play that game!

 

Are any of the other mods really needed or are they just "nice to have".

Limited funds mean I have to be choosy on where it goes.

Edited August 18, 2010 by Trader

[Snaggletooth]

Steve, I wouldn't order a single part until you see the inside of the starter itself. You can only guess at what you might find. You can bet it's going to be dirty, dry, cruddy looking armatur, and worn brushes. With any luck it can be cleaned up, lubed up, the simple ground mod done and get it back to working properly.

 

But like I told ya, I rebuilt mine that way and installed the cheap brushes off eBay. It worked great.......for about a season and a half. Then it went booommm!!! The brushes were gone in that time. The original ones, 25 years old were only about 1/2 gone. The new ones were well....gone!

 

I'll recommend, if needed, .....buy the OEM brushes. They would probably run about $50 to $60 for the set. Check with Skydoc_17 to see what he can do for ya. But you may luck out and be able to get things working without spending a lot of $$$.

 

And keep in mind that many times you can get a decent used started for less than a set of OEM brushes.

 

NOTE: Just saw the update on Skydoc.....might not be able to help for a while.

 

Mike

Edited August 19, 2010 by Snaggletooth

[Grisolm1]

What about Vmax starters? 4 Brushes instead of 2 I think.

[Snaggletooth]

I ended up...by a stroke of pure luck getting a 4 brush unit when my original one burned out. It is much stronger and no hot start issues at all installed with the upgrade cables.

 

Finding a used one seems to be tricky part.

[capn eddie]

There are new starters on ebay for vmaxs for $106.00 and $91.90 type in yamaha vmax then click on motorcycle and parts will come up.

[Snaggletooth]

Hey Cap'n,

 

The thing I kept running into when I was looking for a 4 brush unit on eBay with the listings for the V-Max starters, was about every single seller admitted....when pressed with the question of how many brushes came back the the answer...2. One seller even went as far as to tell me he wasn't going to open one to find out.

 

If ya don't asked....some ain't gonna tell ya. I thinks some don't even know...or care.

 

As always...It's Buyer Beware.

 

Mike

[mrich12000]

STARTER RELAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dingy]

STARTER RELAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Look at post #7, this eliminates the starter relay.

 

 

Gary

[mrich12000]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPSSSSSSSSSSS

[mrich12000]

STARTER RELAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Wizard765]

I'm pretty sure the starter from a 2nd Gen will bolt right in and they are about $50 from Pinwall. Much better starter and probably cost that much to rebuild yours.

[Trader]

OK.....I'm going to post multiple pictures below to show what I've been up to.

 

It seems everyone agree's that removing the starter was the next step, and either clean it or replace the brushes do the ground mod...whatever. The first step is to remove it.

 

So...I went to remove the rad...not too bad. Figured I would use the drain plug and drain the system.

 

I tried spinning the drain cap to the OFF position...and then to the ON position...and then to anyother position...but nothing was draining!

 

I tried unscrewing it...but it doesn't. Am I supposed to just pry it out?

See picture#2 "DRAIN PLUG"

 

So...I ended up just removing hoses to drain the system.

 

Dingy said I should replace the thermostat while I was at it.

Which I assume is under the cap with the tube opening to the camera

SEE picture #3 BOLT IN THE WAY!

As you may be able to see...the phillips screws were stripped...and are even more now.

So how do I remove the whole thing?

I've got to get that out of the way because I can't remove the starter bolt...it hits the pipe outlet no matter how I jiggle it.

 

so I can't shift the starter sideways to remove the starter.

 

WHile I was working the header to get it out of the way, I guess I flexed the inner pipe right off! SO now maybe I'll be looking for a new header.

 

I thought if I removed the motor mount bolt that goes from side to side across the front, I would have easier access.....only to find out the bolt comes out but there is a fixed sleave the bolt goes into.

 

SIGH!

 

so....I have mostly stripped thermostat cap bolts (and the back one is almost inaccessable!) and a broken exhaust....

 

AND I STILL DON"T HAVE THE STARTER OUT!:puzzled::puzzled:

:bawling:

 

.

Edited August 19, 2010 by Trader

[Snaggletooth]

Ok...you opened a can of worms now.

 

The drain plug you are talking about is not a plug...it's a valve. You only turn it to the "On" position to ALLOW the coolant to bypass the thermostat to drain coolant. It gets set to the "OFF" position to run the bike. You don't need to remove it unless you are going to replace the o-ring on it. Not to worry about that now.

 

The drain for the system is under the water pump housing on the right side. Remove that plug and it will drain completely.

 

The phillips screws in the thermo housing are a bear and do strip easy. The one in the back gave me nightmare. I replace both with SS Allen heads and still had problems later.

 

But, at this point....you will need a new approach.

 

You can see the bolts that hold the thermo housing to the block. You are going to remove those. There is the 90 degree elbow pipe that runs from the thermo housing to the water pump. You are going to need to pull those bolts, and pull the entire housing forward, sliding the elbow out of the pump at the same time. Not easy, but doable and remember the elbow is plastic so no hammer please.

 

The other smaller cross pipe can be worked out of it's mounting also. You will be needing to replace some o-rings before reassembly doing it this way. The whole thing can be turned and worked out of its position. It's going to feel like you're working on a Rubiks Cube to get it done. Take your time and watch what you are doing.

 

Once you get the housing off and onto a work bench you can deal with the stripped screws.

 

I take it you did loosen the hex caps on the exhaust studs to work the header back a bit . Did the header pipe break off? Was it rusted out or what? But if the header on the right side is completely off you will have more room the work in there.

 

So that will get you started. It's a PITA to do it this way but once those screws are stripped out it gets a bit tricky.

 

Mike

[Trader]

Ok...you opened a can of worms now.

 

The drain plug you are talking about is not a plug...it's a valve. You only turn it to the "On" position to ALLOW the coolant to bypass the thermostat to drain coolant. It gets set to the "OFF" position to run the bike. You don't need to remove it unless you are going to replace the o-ring on it.

It was suggested I replace the O ring because they have a habit of leaking.

 

 

I take it you did loosen the hex caps on the exhaust studs to work the header back a bit . Did the header pipe break off? Was it rusted out or what? But if the header on the right side is completely off you will have more room the work in there.

 

Mike

I removed the hex caps and loosened the clamps on the collector. I twisted the header was all of about 1" either way...IF THAT!....but that is what it is...my concern now is just getting the #*%#!@ starter out!

[Snaggletooth]

Ok.....let's look at this way. The starter is not going to come out until the black thermo cover is removed. It's in the way of the bolt and the starter need extra room to slide out.

 

So forget the stripped screws in the cover for now, they are still tight. BUT....it you remove this bolts for the housing and slide it all forward without completely removing it, perhaps that will give you enough room to get the starter out. I can't say that for sure as I did remove my housing all the way before pulling the starter.

 

All you need it a little more space to get that done. There is not a lot of spare space in there as you know.

 

Mike

[dingy]

Steve,

 

Here is a picture of what it will look like after you remove the metal lower thermostat housing.

 

Your left header pipe will still be on.

 

The black valve in front will pull straight out, once you remove the lock screw on the right side.

 

If it will help you any, you can call me about any sane hour. Use the first number in my profile.

 

Gary

[Trader]

OK....so if I remove the bolt (# 21 in parts list) from the bottom of the thermostat housing the whole housing , pipes and all, should be able to shift forward.

 

Once that bolt is removed...it looks like it is just the o-ring's holding it in place into the water pump housing....CORRECT?????

 

So then it should be just fanangaling to get the whole assembly out.

 

Both headers have been removed