starting problems

[Greg Kendall]

Tried to start my 86 VR after it had been sitting about a month. Had a little trouble getting it to fire right away, and ended up running down the battery (it might have been low to start with). Grabbed the jumper cables and hooked them up to the car. Got plenty of cranking power, but the bike still wouldn't fire up (might have flooded it by now). Then I just lost the starter completely. When I press the start button nothing happens except I hear a relay click, to cancel out the headlight I think. I have it in neutral, so I don't think it's related to the sidestand switch or the clutch lever switch. I tried rocking the bike a little in 3rd gear in case the brushes in the starter motor are a little worn and might move them a little. Still nothing. Any suggestions what might be wrong or what else I should be looking for? Thanks.

[friesman]

thats what mine does from time to time, and i cant find the issue, but i think it is probably a bad ground. Mine has always eventually started tho.

The reason i think mine is a bad ground is that if I hold the starter button in and then hit the horn button my bike starts......every time. But I cant find the issue as it is so intermittent.

 

 

(dont shoot me for asking this....but the kill switch is set on run....right? )

 

 

Brian

[dingy]

Then I just lost the starter completely. When I press the start button nothing happens except I hear a relay click, to cancel out the headlight I think.

 

Still nothing. Any suggestions what might be wrong or what else I should be looking for? Thanks.

 

When the starter button is depressed, the only relay that should pick or drop is the starter relay.

 

There is no headlight cutout relay, energy for the light circuit runs through the start switch then into the Reserve lighting unit.

 

Try putting a voltmeter on the starter relay terminal that goes to the starter. Relay is located to left of breather box, somewhat under fairing pocket cover. Then try to start bike, if you have voltage, then statrt circuitry is functioning. Next step is checking all connections.

 

Check & clean battery connections. Also check ground connection on right front side of engine where main ground connects to block.

 

I did a write up on improving starter ground connection inside starter, link below.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=46890

 

Also here is a link to the starter involved circuits.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=42722

 

Gary

[Snaggletooth]

I went through something like that a while back. Just for chuckles try this.

 

First jump the posts on the starter solenoid to see if the starter kicks in.

 

If not.....then

 

Run jumper cables from the negative battery post to the body of the starter. Run the positive cable from the positive battery post and tap the hot end of the positive jumper cable on the cable mounting stud on the starter itself.

 

That should fire it right over.

 

Of course make sure the battery is well charged.

 

The point where the positive battery cable attaches to the mounting stud has shown to be a weak spot for me.

 

I have to ask..... the car wasn't running when you jumped from it was it?

 

Fine out what happens and then go from there.

 

 

Mike

[Greg Kendall]

Thanks for the tips, guys. Yes, Friesman1, the kill switch was in the run position. That's the first thing I checked because I thought the same thing, "What's the obvious thing I'm not seeing here?"

 

Snaggletooth, I think the car was running. Is that a big problem? I've done it that way several times before.

 

Anyway, I'll try some of the things you guys suggested before I call in extra help.

[dingy]

Snaggletooth, I think the car was running. Is that a big problem? I've done it that way several times before.

 

This topic has been discussed several times here before and it is almost as varied as oil and tire topics.

 

Ventures use a Shunt type regulator. This style regulator discharges excess current coming from the stator to ground via an electronic circuit, probably large SCR's. This shunt system is designed to handle the expected output of the bikes stator which is in the range of 30 amps. When you hook a car up to it that is running, now the regulator is possibly trying to shunt the output of possibly a 100 amp or more regulator. The regulator may fail trying to do this. The reason a running car is worse than a non running car is that when the car's voltage regulator senses the lower voltage battery being put in parallel with the cars battery, it engages the higher alt. output. This increases voltage and current flow. A non running car's battery is at a level around 13.2 volts, when the alt. engages the system voltage increases to around 14.5 volts.

 

A circuit will draw the power that it requires when voltage is constant. For example, you screw in a 40 watt bulb into a 120V outlet it glows and pulls just the amount of current needed. You put in a 100 watt bulb, it glows brighter & pulls more current. Now with either bulb, if you increase the voltage, the bulb will draw more current and glow brighter, possibly to the point of failure. The point being either bulb has assess to a very large current flow potential, but only draws from the power grid what is needed.

 

Same principle with a Shunt type regulator, if a steady 13.2 voltage is applied, the motorcycle battery will try to equalize it self by drawing power from the car's battery. It acts like a sponge, sucking energy from the car. When the cars charging system kicks in and increases voltage to 14.5, the bikes regulator sees this increase in voltage and thinks system is charged and tries to shunt current to ground in order to protect battery from overcharging. Since the car can provide far more current than the regulator is designed for, something can fail.

 

If the car is just idling, it probably is not spinning the alternator fast enough to develop the higher voltage & amperage. But if it is reved up, system output increases.

 

A non running car with a decent battery has by far enough power to crank these engines without discharging.

 

Gary

[Greg Kendall]

Thanks, guys. Think I've got it diagnosed. Had no voltage to the starter, so we backed up to the relay. Tried jumping it with a piece of one-inch strap metal with a notch in it. Started right up. Could be the weak relay caused my starting problems in the first place. Got a new one ordered. Until then I'm carrying around the strap metal for a "key." Thanks again.

[Snaggletooth]

Glad ya got it figured out. Make sure to check your charging system to be sure it's keeping the battery topped off. Half the issues with these old girls is the battery is weak.

 

If you find you need a new battery at any time I strongly recommend the DEKA AGMs. Great battery. Skydoc_17 can set you up and www.bohannonbattery.com can do it to. Can't beat them for performance and CCAs. Or the price. That's the best part.

 

Don't lose your "key".

 

Mike

[Greg Kendall]

Thanks, Snaggletooth. I will check the charging system too. And no worries about the "key". It's about 8 inches long. Doesn't fit in my pocket so good, so I'll throw it in the trunk! Your help is much appreciated.