Rear Brake Lock Ups

[Orrin]

I want to do a survey of who has had problems with thier rear brakes locking up in an emergency situation. What happened, injury, accident or death. How do you know what happened? Did you find your rear brake difficult to modulate? Was the front brake used also? What is you normal stopping proceedure. Have you practiced emergeny stops? Please add any relevant information you think would be valuable. Please be brief this is just a survey. I am going to try to keep this thread for a week and then let you all know the results. Not looking for solutions. Thank you.

[TEW47]

On my 97' RSTD the rear wheel locked up a I had a wreck. I did not employ proper braking, was not straight when braking. On my 07' RSV I have not had that problem, I took the MSF course and learned proper braking. It helps when you know how and not from someone who does not know the right way. When someone tells you they had to lay it down too miss a car, they do not know how to brake or swerve. Look stright ahead,keeping handlebars square and use both brakes without skidding the tires. Of course you have to be in the vertical position.

 

tew47

[Freebird]

I have had it happen a couple of times. Both times I was able to control it and stayed in control but would prefer that it didn't happen. One time was NOT a panic stop. I just almost missed a turn and got on it a little heavier than usual. I did not feel that it should have locked up that time.

 

I feel that I am a decent rider. I have practiced emergency stopping even locking up the rear brake on purpose. I have also taken the advance riders course where you do it on purpose.

 

The brakes are too sensitive in my opinion.

[trandeod]

I have had my 06 RSV since March and have locked the rear brake 3 times thus far, recovering each time with no damage except to my nerves. Each time the RSV slid sideways. Probably my fault because my two previous bikes were a 05 Goldwing and a 03 VTX 1800. I've put several thousand miles on the Hondas and never locked a rear brake, I believe, because of the linked systems. I have ordered the valve from Zach , which I hope cushions the RSV system. Why the RSV has such a powerful rear brake is beyond me. It will be interesting to hear other incidents.

[BOO]

I would be very interested in how the valve's work out for you. I have locked up the rear brake several times and it's pretty scary.

I'll say one thing, when a person locks up the rear brake it's really their fault in they way they are braking. BUT like Don said the brakes are way to sensitive. Front brakes are great but the backs are bad.

Jerry

[eagleeye]

So, with what I have read and what Orrin has said, it would make more sense to put the valve on the rear then, right?

 

Steve

[RedRider]

I had it happen today on the way to the WI M&E. An 18 wheeler decided at the last minute he wanted to take an entrance ramp I had already moved into. I had stayed back just in case and broke (braked) hard and came to a stop. The rear locked up and was just a little squirrelly, no big deal. I also used the front brake.

 

The 18 wheeler saw me also and stopped so there wasn't much opportunity for a collision. In the end, nothing bad happened.

 

In defense of the 18 wheeler, there was construction barrels all around and it wasn't very well marked. This was also a turn back onto a main road after a detour. A gentle wave once I passed him thanking him for seeing me and stopping when he quickly turned onto the entrance ramp.

 

I felt the rear locked up easier than it should have. ABS would be really nice ('10 model??).

 

RR

[bigbob]

Coming from a 1500 GW with linked brakes that I only locked up once in 100,000 miles in a PANIC STOP to a non linked RSV I squealed the back tire way to often. SCARRY. Think I will try that new valve setup.

Ride safe: Bigbob

[Smokee]

In my case, I believe that the seat-to-floorboard height on my '07 RSV contributed to the few times I have had the rear wheel lock during hard braking. Because of my height (6-2), I have to "reach" up hard to get my foot off the board and onto the rear brake pedal, and once it's there, it's difficult to keep from putting too much pressure on the pedal, causing a rear wheel lockup. If I ride with my Airhawk seat cushion, I don't have that problem because I sit higher and it's easier to "feather" the rear brake pedal because my leg/ankle isn't scrunched up too tight. I'm researching various companies to have the seat rebuilt to raise me up a couple of inches. If anyone else has this problem, I'd love to hear from you.

[Mariner Fan]

In my case, I believe that the seat-to-floorboard height on my '07 RSV contributed to the few times I have had the rear wheel lock during hard braking. Because of my height (6-2), I have to "reach" up hard to get my foot off the board and onto the rear brake pedal, and once it's there, it's difficult to keep from putting too much pressure on the pedal, causing a rear wheel lockup. If I ride with my Airhawk seat cushion, I don't have that problem because I sit higher and it's easier to "feather" the rear brake pedal because my leg/ankle isn't scrunched up too tight. I'm researching various companies to have the seat rebuilt to raise me up a couple of inches. If anyone else has this problem, I'd love to hear from you.

 

I'm taller than you but I've never locked up my rear brake. I don't use it much other than low speed slowing down. I think I'm more in tune with being tall on a Yamaha because I rode an 1100 V Star ( not a good fit for a tall guy).

[Guest KitCarson]

Orrin: We used to have rear drum brakes......had a steel rod that links the rear foot control pad to the actual brake........try taking a corner way too fast and when you hit the rear brake........uh oh!!! It had a ny-loc nut on it, yep it was a Harley!! The link rod had came loose. It is a rather revolting development to all of a sudden have no rear brake......I managed it..hit the front hard!! let off.....hit it again.....let off.....hit it again.....in a hard corner the front brake tends to want to pull you straight......or to the outside. Lean too far in, it wants to slide the front tire out from under the bike.

Since those days , I have taken several MSF courses.......will take another when one comes my way......you do as the instructor tells you.....lock the rear under controlled conditions.........and speeds. Now days......if and when I have to stop fast......I have learned to use both brakes.....hard as I can. push them to the limit...but do not slide a wheel....if you feel the bike start to slide or hear the squall of the rear tire.....let off......then hit it again.

At 70-80 miles per hour.......riding the interstate to Charleston.....people are crazy.......they jostle back and forth......bumper to bumper ...you look up and uh oh.....there is a whole line of them stopped. The SUV in front of you takes the ditch......hard on the front.......slow it down as your weight goes forward.......back off ,,,,hit the rear and front....

 

Okay going to shut up.......you asked for no solutions......but a lot of people read these posts......I am the worlds worst about yapping on safety.

Everyone should take a good MSF course........learn to do what the instructor wants you to do under controlled conditions........practice a bit on your own ......learn what your bike will do........I think that is worth more than all the gadgets and new brakes in the world.........keep the brakes new and clean.......brake pads are cheap.......I check mine every oil change

one wearing uneven? bite the bullet and take the pistons out of the calipers......new o'rings .........and I use faucet grease on the orings....it is a special lube......waterproof.......lasts and lasts....does not react with any rubber or plastic compound......lets the brakes pull in evenly. Stops all that galling of plastic on metal.....have not had these new ones apart.....have not had the need so far....but those on the suzuki....pistons were plastic. Aluminum ones were put in in place of those things.

 

None of us use that front brake as we should......I am getting much better.

I am getting so used to using it....some days I find myself not even touching the rear. Kit

[Orrin]

Kit, Thanks for the input. I am trying to get a feel for how many people have had problems with rear brakes locking up or are very difficult to modulate in emergency situations. This is appearing to be a fairly common occurance.

[royalstarjac]

I've locked mine a time or two. The bike stayed straight no problem. I think it was mainly my fault for using to much rear and not enough front brake.-Jack

[Guest Zachtcb]

How often does everybody use there front brakes? I have heard alot about people not using there front brakes. I am just curious, why?

 

 

Regards Zach

[Stoutman]

I use my front brake almost all the time. Only use the rear brake when turning or at parking lot speeds, or in a panic. I will drag the rear brake while feathering the throttle/clutch to keep the beast stable at very low speed. Can come to a complete stop then start again without putting the feet down using that technique.

 

That said I have locked up the rear every time I have had a panic stop, even when practicing panic stops. Each time I was going slow enough that I just kept it locked and rode it out. Never went down because of it, but only by the grace of God. I think it is a combination of the 4 piston pinchers on the rear rotor and the high brake pedal giving lots of leverage. Would definitly like to see the ABS option on this beast. I'd buy that option over fuel injection or a reverse gear.

[cmiles3]

I've managed to lock up my rear brakes a time or two. Usually when there's sand on the road; normal braking, then the rear tire loses traction on a sandy patch. No crashes.

 

The only times I've been down while braking have been front wheel lockups while turning. Not supposed to brake & turn, but what do you do in the middle of a turn and a cage cuts you off?

 

Since my brakes are linked, I can't use rear brake only. I apply the pedal gently about half the time, but then apply the hand brake and use it to modulate the braking effort.

 

I also practice emergency stops at least once a week. So far, the emergency stops I've needed have worked without skids.

[Orrin]

Thank you everybody, we are getting some really good information here. I hope it will save some accidents in the future. let's keep the information coming. I would like to end this thread and compile the results next weekend and then post results later in the week.

[StarRider07]

I must admit that i have never taken the MSF course. I know I should. Something that really confuses me though.............

I was sitting with a group of 5 guys (having coffee). One of the guys was a MSF instructor. Topic about breaking came up. He said using front brakes to stop or slow down should NOT be used. Said the front brake should only be used to assist. He made a comment that he was so surprised at how many riders use their front brake when coming up to a red light or stop sign.

A couple guys then spoke up and said that riders that use their front brakes don't know what they are doing and should take the course.

(See why I am confused)

Now that was contrary to what I have heard before and reading here. "USE THE BACK BRAKE".

I have had one dealer tell me that front brakes should not be used that often. He said that the rear pads should always wear out first. Another dealer tells me that I should be using the front brakes more.

[CrazyHorse]

HA:rotf:HAHAHA That guy outta pull the joint out of his mouth you may want to go to another instructor or he taught 20 years ago. http://www.msf-usa.org/CurriculumMaterials/BRC_Handbook_VS7_noprnt.pdf this is the link to the MSF BAsic Rider course manual online page 23 talks about braking look at it yourself.

 

Just noticed your Canadian I dont know what they teach up there. This is the USA link.

[Jercoupe]

A good friend of mine is a motor cop and he told me long ago to only rest my foot on the brake when stopping and dont ever push. As you apply front brake harder the momentum of the bike will make you push the rear brake just right. This is how he was trained. I asked what about panic stops and he said if you pratice this always you will do the same in a panic. Well. I praticed this for 2 years and when that damn deer jumped out in front of me I was in a thick cloud of smoke from my rear tire locked up!!. Guess i need more pratice. It does work good in regular driving though.

Jack in los osos ca

[Squeeze]

.... He said using front brakes to stop or slow down should NOT be used. Said the front brake should only be used to assist. He made a comment that he was so surprised at how many riders use their front brake when coming up to a red light or stop sign.

A couple guys then spoke up and said that riders that use their front brakes don't know what they are doing and should take the course.

(See why I am confused)

Now that was contrary to what I have heard before and reading here. "USE THE BACK BRAKE".

I have had one dealer tell me that front brakes should not be used that often. He said that the rear pads should always wear out first. ...

 

 

Hi, let me tell you something ... this is completly BS. And BS is a Kind Term to describe that Story.

 

I think someone should take care of this Guy and pull his Instructor's License ... And .. no Smilies here, i am completly serious about this. This Guy is putting the Folks at his Classes in serious Danger. I don't want to know what other bad Stories he is used to spread on Customers who want to learn from the Classes and learn everything wrong.

 

As for the Dealer ... if someone spreads such Words, he won't get not a Dime from my Pocket no more. Not even a Nickel !!!

 

There are many Sites on the Internet that show you the hard Facts about M/C Braking. Just the Physics and that's enough to know. Use your front Brakes and when on a heavy Bike, which cannot lift the rear End as fast as a Sportbike, you can use the rear as a good working Assistence. Nothing else. Period

 

Take a Look a MotoGP Race or AMA Superbike, if they brake, the rear Wheel is completly in Air sometimes, they ride only on the front Wheel under braking, they use a special Clutch called Anti-Hopping, because they want to keep control on the rear Wheel.

 

Well, our Bike are not even in the same Book as those Racers, but the run under the same Laws of Physics.

[Guest KitCarson]

How often does everybody use there front brakes? I have heard alot about people not using there front brakes. I am just curious, why?

 

 

Regards Zach

An honest question deserves an honest answer! Most of us are older....most grew up when it was taught the front brake is dangerous.......old habits die hard!! Even the first MSF Course I took was a military course.......they discouraged the use of the front brake........instructors also have opinions. Rumors and opinions fly around till such time as they become fact. The non use of the front brake and the rumor that it can kill you became fact. It has only been in the last five or six years that I myself became aware of the fact.....hey.....dummie do not listen to all this nonsense about the front brake........go learn how to use it, and I did. It makes so much difference it is actually hard to believe. You can bring one of these big bikes down from speed in a hurry......if you do get tear in your throat and romp on the front too hard....it will slide straight......just let off.....hit it again......once you are down to 35 or so.....who cares if the rear brake locks??? They will have you do that on purpose at the safety schools as this is a safe speed to practice at. I think this is the real reason Zach......I know it was mine......rumor had became fact. Now days I use the front brake all the time......even riding two up.....use it all I can.....at the lights.....smoother easy stop...both feet down.........then one on the rear waiting................front brakes are great, everyone should learn to use it. Kit.

 

Oh hey.....as I have an onery streak......I could not help but put this one somewhere:stirthepot::stirthepot::rotf:Oil is oil....is oil....is again oil........I have been nice and carried the rumor that it is not myself.........oil is oil is oil..........that is another rumor that has became fact. :sign20:Kit

[royalstarjac]

If used properly 70% of the braking force should be applied at the front. Why do you think we have 2 rotors on the front and only 1 on the rear?-Jack

[Guest Boomerbiker]

Almost one year ago (November 4) a cager on the Blue Ridge Parkway determined to cross the double yellow line from the opposite side of the road as I was rounding a curve. I locked up the rear wheel (instinctively we tend to hit the brake pedal) and when releasing it, the bike went into a tank slapper and I was deposited unceremoniously on the pavement. The bike and my Aerostich riding suit were totaled along with the full face helmet (whacked on the chin and scraped on the side) but I walked away.

 

Upon exiting the car the cager remarked, "I didn't see you." Kind of hard to believe with the headlight and passing lamps blazing away. What he should have said was, "I wasn't looking."

 

That accident forcefully reminded me to apply the front brake first for most panic situations and I have been practicing it ever since. We are taught in the MSF class what happens when the brakes are locked up in a turn and the tires are not aligned. There is nothing like the mother of experience to reinforce the lesson!

 

The accident also reinforced my habit of wearing full protective gear. Tank tops, flip flops, and no helmet don't cut it for this 60 year old.

 

Bill

[KiteSquid]

Using the front brake during turning at low speed will make you drop the bike!!!

 

This is PROBABLY what the instructor was talking about.

 

You MUST use BOTH brakes to stop your bike properly, however depending on speed, lean angle, road surface condition, contaminates on the road, SHOULD make you apply your brakes in different ratios.... EVERY braking event is different, and you MUST adapt to the current event, or you WILL drop your bike or crash!!!!

 

There is NO single proper braking technique!!!!!!!!