Avon Venom - uneven wear?

[BigBear]

Here are some photos of the Avon Venom tire that "wore out". The cords show in three places on one-half of the tire.

 

I'm looking for some feedback on the following (so don't hold back ):

 

1) The tread wear indicators(TWI) on these tires are essentially WORTHLESS. How do you use the TWI? They are on the outer edge of the tire...where the cords are showing, the TWI looks almost new!

 

2) How do you gauge tire wear on these tires? Seems like tracking mileage is the most "popular" method.

 

3) It almost looks like the tire was over-inflated?? I usually keep the rear tire at 38 psi...but...prior to leaving for Charlotte (pulling a trailer) I bumped up the pressure to 42 psi.

 

4) If the tire is at 42 psi, and the ambient air temperature is +94-98 degrees, what happens to the pressure in the tire? Common sense says that the tire pressure could/should expand 2-8 psi. That means that the tire pressure could be as high as 50 psi.

[Snaggletooth]

Ok, I'm no expert on tires but I've been running Avons for the last two seasons with excellent wear. I've got about 15,000 on my both the front and rear on mine now with no issues.

 

I noticed you stated pressure on the rear at 38 lbs. I run mine at 48 PSI cold all the time. I belive the tire states 50 lbs PSI cold.

 

If the tire is seperating or wearing at the outter edges that would indicate low tire pressure and causing too much flex.

 

And you are right. The wear bars was pretty much worthless from what other riders report. Once they hit the bars there may only be a few hunderd miles left on them.

 

How many miles on yours?

 

Mike

[BOO]

I am no expert either but I have bought a few tires during the last 40 or 50 years.

Very rarely do you see a tire worn that has cord showing all the way around. Usually it's just in one spot but the rest of the tire will be well worn.

Almost looks like your tire had some lumps in a few spots around the tire that wore down long before other areas.

BOO

[Mike G in SC]

I have used Avon Venoms for a few years,,, and yes, about the time you notice you are at the wear bars, you are just a day from cord. I got that again 3 weeks ago.

That was about 13k on the rear. But, by time I ordered the tire, I had to park it at the shop cause I was in the cord. Front is still good but getting down.

 

So, just for GP, I am trying a set of Michelin Commanders. I got the rear on. It is great.

Just did Star Days and about 1000 miles in the mountains.

 

The front was out of stock but I now have one on order. Looking forward to trying it.

I think I will get similar miles and ride as the Venons but the total cost will be about $90 less. And,,,,, have not read any gripes about the Michelins.

 

Hey, Big Bear, one clue your rear tire is getting thin (besides visual):

As you drive through a parking lot with some loose stones,, when they start to shoot out from under your tire with a healthy pop (noise and distance), as opposed to a thud, I normally find that is related to thin rubber, it's close to gone. I usually notice this at my work parking lot just before I am at the wear marks,,,,, really.

But, I would think that if you were at the wear marks at 38lb and you bump to 42,,,, yes you are going to get an accelerated centerline wear. You just added more pressure and less surface. And I do believe that the inner most layers of rubber are softer than the treaded. Note, you may actually see a lighter gray in the inner layers. So when they go,,,,, THEY GO QUICK!

 

Mike G in SC

Edited August 1, 2010 by Mike G in SC

[BigBear]

When the shop put that tire on, they told me they annotated the mileage...but they must have used disappearing ink!!!

 

The tire was put on mid-June 2010...I'm guessing it had around 14,000 miles on it...but that's just a guess.

 

The tech that removed this bad tire said that the previous installed used a BUNCH of weight to get the tire balanced (he showed me a combination of stick on and crimp-on weights... I don't remember how much). When he installed the new tire, he used three small stick-on weights (considerable LESS that what he took off).

 

BTW...the wife and I where in your neighborhood last Tuesday (riding route 97 to Charlotte NC), and got caught in the DOWNPOUR and LIGHT SHOW late in the afternoon.

[V7Goose]

Boo is correct that you rarely see cord showing all the way around - it always peeks through in one or two spots first. But one of your pictures shows a very specific spot of wear fairly close to one of the tread grooves that crosses the center of the tire, and that groove was still visible. That tells me that the spot into the cord was put there by an out-of-balance point slamming it into the road and then pulling it away before the tread groove came by just an inch or two later.

 

The amount of weight a tire needs to be balanced is an indication of possible defect, but you need to know what the wheel needs to be in balance (and where) without a tire mounted before yoiu can make any real assessment. Generally, I do not like to see a motorcycle tire that needs more than 3 oz, and if it takes 6 or more, I'm pretty sure it is defective. I have an E3 I just recently mounted that took 5 oz, and I am not happy about it, even though it seems to be in perfect balance. If I had purchased it locally instead of over the internet, I would be demanding a replacement.

 

Most tire brands have a dot that indicates the lightest point on the tire, and that dot is supposed to be placed at the valve stem (the assumption is that the valve stem is the heaviest point on the wheel). Avon is the only brand of which I know that does not have this dot, and when I asked them about it, they claimed their tires were so uniformly made that they did not have a light point so it was not necessary. In general, I have usually found Avon tires to not change the static balance point of the bare wheel, so this tends to support their claim.

 

Noticing that you have an unbalanced tire is not always easy, since it takes a fairly big weight problem to generate a significant wheel hop. In addition, the vibration that you can get from an unbalanced tire is often attributed to engine vibration instead. I put enough miles on my bike that I generally can notice a sudden change in the feel, no matter what causes it (not saying I can tell what is causing it, just that I can tell the change). I don't like to use stick-on weights because I have had some come off several times after about 10,000 miles. In those cases, I have noticed a different vibration when running fast (about 80 MPH), and I was able to see the tape residue left on the rim from the missing weights.

 

I disagree with you about the wear indicators - they are quite useful on all brands of tires. They are NOT just at the sides of the tread; on the Venom, the TWI extends in an arc all the way across the tire. To be of any value, you must look for the point where you can see one of the TWIs in the tread groove near the center of the tire. And because an out-of-balance tire will wear unevenly, you cannot just check one point - you really must rotate the tire all the way around and look for the wear at all places.

 

In actuality, I generally pay way more attention to the tread groove depth in the center of the tire than I do the actual wear indicators. The Avon Venom only has four grooves that cross fully from one side to the other, so it is important to check each of these. There is one big thig I hate about the Venom (which is still my favorite tire on the RSV) - there is absolutely NO margin for error on the tread wear. Once the bottom of the tread groove is reached in the center, you have about 30 feet of riding left before you start seeing cord! That means you better change the tire BEFORE you get to the bottom of the tread groove. And that is where the TWI comes in - when it is level with the surrounding rubber in the center of the tire, that is the last safe point.

Goose

Edited August 1, 2010 by V7Goose

[cecdoo]

I have been running the venoms for a few years, I always look at the 4 bars that cross the center of the tire, when they get low I replace the tire, last set on the rsv rear got 16K and they may have gone another 1000 miles but I replaced it when the center tread was about 1/16th left. I never ran a bike tire till the cord was showing, but thats just me. Craig

[BigBear]

Thanks Goose!

 

I was unaware that there are FOUR grooves that run across the entire surface of tire....and that the TWI would also be present in those grooves.

 

The TWI I was looking at where on the outer edge of the tire tread...not towards the center as you've indicated....hence my comment about "useless TWI". I still had PLENTY of tread out on the edge of the tire near the TWI!!!

 

About the only maintenance I have not learned "how" to do from this site is "how to mount and balanace" my own tires. Any good sites out there that do a decent job of walking a beginner through all of the steps for replacing my own tires?

 

I'm an engineer, so I always try to do a "root cause" analysis on failures...to better understand what caused the failure.

 

Thanks for your assistance!

[BOO]

Couple of Pics of tires I have taken off the RSV.

I'm pretty much a die hard Dunlap fan.

The first tire is a 404, run past it time but there were no threads showing.

The second is of two E3's, I would have ran this tire several more thousand

miles but I was going on a several thousand mile trip and didn't want to have

changed on the road.

I have another picture I want to share but I can't find it at the moment.

BOO

[MiCarl]

The Avon rep here said the reason they don't mark the light spot is because they want to force the tire to be balanced rather than aligning it with the valve and calling it good. He also said they recommend that if it takes more than 2 1/2 oz. to balance that the tire be dismounted, rotated on the wheel and tried again.

 

I always check the balance of wheels that are intended for tubeless tires before mounting the new tire. About half of them have the heaviest spot somewhere other than at the valve stem. I mark the heavy spot and align the tire mark there. Usually that results in using very little weight.

 

I haven't mounted a lot of Avon tires, but they don't seem to be any better than any other tire for how well they are balanced. My experience is that the cheaper tires (Kenda, Shinko) seem to be more uniform than higher priced tires (Dunlop, Bridgestone).

[Guest Boomerbiker]

Venoms for me. I'm on my third rear tire and get about 15,000 miles a pop. I run it at 50 psi cold just it says on the sidewall. The 130/90 on the front went for 21,500 miles and still had decent tread, but I changed it anyway. Can't be too careful on two wheels.

 

Good luck to you.