Starter motor replacement/refurbishment bits

[greg_in_london]

While fiddling with my carbs - and with a battery that is getting low, it feels as if my starter motor clutch is giving up. It could be that as the battery is low and the starter motor has always struggled, it's just not gripping tightly enough , so changing the battery and servicing the starter motor just MIGHT sort things out, otherwise I might have to invest in the starter clutch modification.

 

While searching for bits, though I came across this chap on the US ebay site:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Starter-KIT-Yamaha-M-C-XVZ1200-Venture-XVZ-1200-1198cc-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem414ce55e63QQitemZ280462974563QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

He is selling the bits to refurbish the starter motor, but also sells aftermarket starters. He says that all models are available, so I have asked if he can match the later Royal Star starter which I'm told will fit (awaiting an answer) and wondered if anybody had experience of these.

[dingy]

While fiddling with my carbs - and with a battery that is getting low, it feels as if my starter motor clutch is giving up. It could be that as the battery is low and the starter motor has always struggled, it's just not gripping tightly enough , so changing the battery and servicing the starter motor just MIGHT sort things out, otherwise I might have to invest in the starter clutch modification.

 

While searching for bits, though I came across this chap on the US ebay site:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Starter-KIT-Yamaha-M-C-XVZ1200-Venture-XVZ-1200-1198cc-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem414ce55e63QQitemZ280462974563QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

He is selling the bits to refurbish the starter motor, but also sells aftermarket starters. He says that all models are available, so I have asked if he can match the later Royal Star starter which I'm told will fit (awaiting an answer) and wondered if anybody had experience of these.

 

Check with Snaggletooth about starter upgrade kits.

 

I seem to remember he got one and was not happy with it. I don't know if it was this one though.

 

Gary

[Squeeze]

The most expensive Parts are missing in the Kit, the Brushes.

[Snaggletooth]

Yep.....had my fun with them.

 

I got to tell ya what I think. Forget the kit! It has parts that would be useful if the starter was pretty much shot but more than likely will not be needed. If the kit would include the brushes....throw them out!!

 

Take the starter out and clean it well. Clean up the armature and recut the grooves with a jewelers saw or file if needed. Inspect the bushings and lube them.

 

THEN.....spend the money on a set of OEM brushes or a high quality replacement set!

 

I rebuilt my starter when I first got the bike and used a set of brushes I found on eBay and much to my regret even advised others to the low cost brushes. Did all the things I mentioned above and the starter worked great. For a while..about a season and a half.

 

I was having engage clutch issues myself and the starter got a workout for sure. I did the battery cable upgrade, added a DEKA AGM battery, R/R, fuse panel, upgrade stator and even did the upgrade engage clutch that Squeeze came up with. Then added the clutch upgrade to boot as the bike was doing so well.

 

Then BANG!! No power to the starter. Nuttin. Chased everything through the system and found I had power to the starter end of the cable but the starter was not firing over.

 

Pulled the starter and found the brushes to be burnt to a crisp. The OEM brushes that came out of the bike were only half worn down after 25 years. The 1 1/2 year old "cheap" brushes were gone. Period. The armature was burned beyond use. I had to buy another starter. I was lucky and Skydoc_17 saved my bacon and set me up with a 4 brush unit.

 

The discount brushes were most certainly the cause of the failure. Just low quality.

 

The OEM brushes are a bit pricey on this side at about $28.00 each. Well......it would have saved me some grief to spend money on the good stuff the first time.

 

These starters are built tough enough for sure. A good cleaning and a little money on a good set of brushes should see you through.

 

Now if you find the engage clutch to be slipping or chattering....talk to Squeeze. He can help set you up with the upgrade. That lil monster alone is one of the best changes I have made to my bike.

 

And Dingys got a good thread here somewhere about doing the additional ground on the brush plate. Highly recommended.

 

I have no worries anymore as to being stranded away from home because the bike won't start.

 

But that is just my opinion.

 

Mike

Edited July 29, 2010 by Snaggletooth

[dingy]

And Dingys got a good thread here somewhere about doing the additional ground on the brush plate. Highly recommended.

 

 

Link to starter ground upgrade.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=46890

 

Gary

[bkuhr]

Brushes need to be shaped for 100% contact with armator. New brushes usually come square, and actually only have about 25% contact. Too many amps across restricted contacts causes arcing, and brushes and armature to burn.

 

Place armature in drill, tape 1 layer only of sandpaper to armature-grit out, assemble brush plate over armature with sandpaper, then set brushes in plate with spings behind them. Then run drill to turn armature-sanding armature diameter into end of brushes. does not take much, don't over due it.

 

Disassembly everything, take sandpaper off, and reassemble same setup in drill with brushes. Run drill some more to 'polish' brushes to armature.

 

Disassembly everything again, and clean up all dust good. Put armature back in drill and sand contacts until shiny- again don't over due it. Make sure all contacts gaps are clear, or clear with file, if clearing caused ridges, sand again.

 

Might now also consider doing Dingy's starter mod for greater ground capacity

 

Now completely assemble starter, and run for about 2 minutes (I use jumper cables and auto battery) with no load.

 

Now you can install starter into MC, Gage, etc... and not worry about it again.

I do same procedure to new in box cheap power tools. Otherwise cheap tools burn out in no time.

[greg_in_london]

Thanks everyone - that's what I wanted to know..

 

I haven't had an answer yet about the other starter motors, although I'm committed to buying the brush set at least.

 

Squeeze, I may be passing though in a couple of weeks, would that be a good time to drop by and say hello and put a face to the name ?

[Squeeze]

Sure, i'm looking forward to. I'll answer your PM and give you my Numbers, my Cell# is my Profile anyway. If you need the updated Starter Clutch, we'll get it done. If you just want to drop by and we have a big Schnitzel together, i'd be happy about that too. No Problem.

 

If you're somewhat into Cars, i'd suggest you think about visiting the Museums we have here. Both, Mercedes and Porsche are a Blast to visit.

[Yammer Dan]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/STARTER-REBUILD-REPAIR-KIT-YAMAHA-VENTURE-ROYALE-1300-/330450316392?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_100&hash=item4cf05fac68

 

 

How about this one?

[Snaggletooth]

Hey Yammer...

 

Same kit I bought. O-rings are ok, bushings would work, probably won't need the plate.

 

Just throw out the brushes and buy better ones.

 

Mike

[Yammer Dan]

Thanks! I had started to buy this one to put on the shelf.

[greg_in_london]

Well I managed to get to Stuttgart and it was good to meet Squeeze. We didn't get a chance to go for that Schnitzel - that will have to wait until next time, but we did pull the old starter clutch out and find the engaging surface was ridged and the roller housing had cracked.

His replacement is a fine piec of engineering and I have no problems with that now.

 

I'll still have to do the earth upgrade, or get a mk11 starter motor and do the earth on that to get as-new performance, but I'll know that I'll be fixing parts that won't fail again.

 

Thanks again, Squeeze.

[Snaggletooth]

Hey Greg.....you didn't happen to get a pic of Squeeze without a helmet on did ya? We all been kind of waiting for that. He's kind of bashful sometimes.

 

But I got to say I've been through two engage clutches before I got the upgrade. No more concerns with that problem. Hooks up real nice.

 

I added on the 4 brush starter also and my starting problems are history.

 

Enjoy the ride Greg.

 

Mike

[Zane]

Just for general knowledge, I got a source for four brush starters for the 1st Gen VR

 

Hi Zane,

 

Thank you for the email. Our part# 61-412 is a 4 brush permanent magnet starter for $220. We have them in stock so you can order right from our web site: www.ricksmotorsportelectrics.com or call us at 1-800-521-0277.

 

Thanks again,

 

Amanda Shaw

PR & Marketing Coordinator

Rick's Motorsport Electrics, Inc.

30 Owens Ct. #2Hampstead, NH 03841

603-329-9901

[Grisolm1]

What years 2nd Gen starters have 4 brushes? Seems this might be a better way to go. They are on E-bay all the time. I'm thinking of upgrading to one this winter.

[greg_in_london]

I've had an American breaker recommended to me that will send me one for £70-80: pinwall_cycle_parts

 

I think I'll get one sent over and do the Earth conversion on it, unless I do the earth conversion on mine and find it makes a big difference first...

[Poledar]

I have a good starter motor...factory stock and in good condition. Asking $50 + shipping at cost. Let me know if you want it.

POLEDAR...

[greg_in_london]

I PM-ed you a couple of days ago.

[Poledar]

Greg,

If you want to cover the shipping all the way to London, I am willing to accept the $50 price tag I quoted you.

Bill...

[greg_in_london]

How much effort is it for you to organise the postage ?

 

Pinwheel say it will cost $38.15. If you can organise it easily then I'll cover it, and I can send you the money via paypal, but if it's a hassle it might be easier just to let Pinwheel do it as they'll have everything in place already.

[Poledar]

Greg,

Just in case there should be a problem, perhaps it is better that you use Pinwheel for your supplier.

Thanks.

POLEDAR

[a1bummer]

What years 2nd Gen starters have 4 brushes? Seems this might be a better way to go. They are on E-bay all the time. I'm thinking of upgrading to one this winter.

 

Ya! What he said. I'm also curious where you guys are getting those four brush setups. Am I safe to assume they're a second gen item?

[a1bummer]

Just for general knowledge, I got a source for four brush starters for the 1st Gen VR

 

Quote:

Hi Zane,

 

Thank you for the email. Our part# 61-412 is a 4 brush permanent magnet starter for $220. We have them in stock so you can order right from our web site: www.ricksmotorsportelectrics.com or call us at 1-800-521-0277.

 

Thanks again,

 

Amanda Shaw

PR & Marketing Coordinator

Rick's Motorsport Electrics, Inc.

30 Owens Ct. #2Hampstead, NH 03841

603-329-9901

 

 

How do these starters compare in performance and quality to those four brush starters you guys mention?

 

Thanks, Bill

[Poledar]

The ones I have had all came from V Maxes!